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Thread: The First War

  1. #1
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    The First War

    Hi,
    I know it's not mentioned in canon, but do you suppose it's possible that Dementors were used in the First War? Sirius did say: "...he had huge numbers at his command -- not just witches and wizards but all manner of Dark creatures..." so that does leave it a bit open. I wrote a story several years ago where Dementors attacked James and Lily, although no one ever questioned it. I'm curious, though, what others think here. And what other Dark creatures do you suppose Sirius might have been referring to?
    Thanks!
    ~Gina

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    I have a hard time imagining that the Ministry would be so willing to let the dementors work for them again if they had already joined Voldemort's side. They're closed-minded, but not that dumb. The fact that so many Ministry officials find it hard to believe that dementors would ever support Voldemort points to the idea that the dementors had nothing to do with the Dark Lord in the first war.

    As far as other Dark creatures--the first thing that came to my mind was Inferi. I don't have my books with me at the moment, but I feel like I remember somebody mentioning in HBP that Voldemort was known to use Inferi in the first war.

    Giants also played a role on Voldemort's side. I can't remember where it's mentioned, but the Lexicon seems to agree with me, so I think I'm right about that.

    I can see Voldemort using some werewolves too, if they were coerced. Maybe goblins. I would guess that the creatures he used were probably half human (or at least human-like in mental capacity, like house-elves or goblins), since they have to make a decision to follow him.

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  3. #3
    Wembricken
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    Hi Gina!

    I'm currently writing a First War fic at the moment and I ended up asking myself the same question. It's kind of difficult to judge, based on what we DO know in canon.

    I get the impression from the books, for example, that the dementors have been guarding Azkaban for quite some time. Aunt Petunia seems aware of them as being a part of Azkaban and given that, at minimum, she would have learned this from her sister no later than 1981 (and more likely far earlier, when they were children and still on speaking terms), I would say it's safe to say that dementors were likely guarding Azkaban throughout much, if not most (or all) of the First War. Furthermore, given that dementors continued to guard Azkaban up until the Second War, it is likely that the Ministry did not have ample reason to distrust dementors, or at least, all dementors. This indicates to me that there was not the full-scale revolt that we see in the Second War.

    That's not to say that dementors did not join Voldemort, however. In fact, in my story, I have some dementors guarding Azkaban and remaining loyal to the Ministry, and others joining with Voldemort. We don't have much canon information about what makes a dementor tick, what they think (if they think), so if you wanted to have dementors join Voldemort in your fic, I think it's reasonable to assume that there are factions, rather than the dementors all acting with one mind. After all, if dementors guard the wizard prison at the Ministry's whim (even if this is only a facade), then they must have some means of thinking for themselves and communicating with humans, otherwise the Ministry would not have been able to negotiate such an arrangement.

    Some might have believed they were more likely to have more people to feed on by following Voldemort, others might have enjoyed the influx of Dark witches and wizards into Azkaban as sufficient. A possible explanation for the complete dementor revolt during the Second War was that they already knew what Voldemort was about and were more thoroughly convinced that they would do better under him.

  4. #4
    fizzingwizzbee
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    This is just speculation but I reckon the dementors never joined Voldemort in the first war because he didn't really need them.
    However a big thing changed from the first war to the second which was alot of Voldemorts most loyal death eaters were in Azkaban. By seeking out the death eaters he got both them and his death eaters back in one go.

    Again this is speculation but I can't imagine Voldemort being very found of dementors. He had a very tough childhood with ALOT of bad memories. A dementor must be as bad for him as it is for Harry if not worse. I also reckon Voldemort would probably struggle to produce a patronus. I can't see him having truly happy memories to look back on to conjure it. But I may be wrong.

    As for other creatures I think inferi are a certain, I believe it is mentioned near the start of HBP. Also werewolves, giants are very likely. Looking deeper into the books for possibilities I'd hazard a guess at Vampires, trolls, snakes, banshees maybe.

  5. #5
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    I personally say no to Dementors in the First War.

    Possible dark creatures:
    Inferi
    Werewolves
    Giants
    Possibly Vampires
    I could see him using Dragons, to be honest
    Trolls
    Some ghosts perhaps?
    Hags

    One thing about the Goblins, Griphook says somewhere in DH that Goblins don't fight wizard wars, and that they are neutral.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by LovemagicWhat exactly is it that Hags can do? I can't seem to remember. Also, I'm not sure if Voldemort would have used [I
    trolls[/I]. Stupid, easily fooled creatures--they're not reliable. And they stink.

    I don't think ghosts could do anything to help fight the war--they go right through things. Perhaps things like deception, finding out information. They can't die or get captured anyway.

    But the others could've helped, yes.

    Hayden
    I don't actually know what Hags do, they're just scary and gross Good point about trolls though. I didn't think of that. I was thinking in terms of reaking havic I figured ghosts may help simply because they can't die, so they could be used to do things that would have been risky for humans, you know?
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  7. #7
    fizzingwizzbee
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    Dragons are meant to be untamable so I can't see them being used for that reason. Even the gringotts one did a runner the first chance it got

  8. #8
    Lovemagic
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maple_and_PheonixFeather
    I personally say no to Dementors in the First War.

    Possible dark creatures:
    Inferi
    Werewolves
    Giants
    Possibly Vampires
    I could see him using Dragons, to be honest
    Trolls
    Some ghosts perhaps?
    Hags

    One thing about the Goblins, Griphook says somewhere in DH that Goblins don't fight wizard wars, and that they are neutral.
    Originally Posted by fizzingwizzbee
    Dragons are meant to be untamable so I can't see them being used for that reason. Even the gringotts one did a runner the first chance it got
    I disagree with fizzingwizzbee. Well, I don't really know. Voldemort is extremely powerful. He probably had the capacity to control one or two dragons, at least. He could have controlled them by somehow bewitching them or getting in their heads and messing with their thoughts like he does to people....

    but it sounds far-fetched, just a bit.

    What exactly is it that Hags can do? I can't seem to remember. Also, I'm not sure if Voldemort would have used trolls. Stupid, easily fooled creatures--they're not reliable. And they stink.

    I don't think ghosts could do anything to help fight the war--they go right through things. Perhaps things like deception, finding out information. They can't die or get captured anyway.

    But the others could've helped, yes.

    Hayden

  9. #9
    Lovemagic
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maple_and_PheonixFeather
    I figured ghosts may help simply because they can't die, so they could be used to do things that would have been risky for humans, you know?
    But what can they do? They go right through things and don't affect anything tangible...but I think they can turn things cold. So any actual fighting, getting objects and such couldn't have happened, but anything else as I suggested earlier could have been a possibility.

    Hayden

    OOh, also, Voldemort, if he had some ghosts under his command, would have had to have been sure that they would follow his command, because he couldn't control them completely. Anything Legilimency-related would have been impossible...or would it really? As ghosts can think for themselves? They aren't solid at all, so that's not like controlling someone alive.

    Hayden

    EDIT: Maple's last post jumped down to number 6.

  10. #10
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    Originally posted by Hayden:

    OOh, also, Voldemort, if he had some ghosts under his command, would have had to have been sure that they would follow his command, because he couldn't control them completely. Anything Legilimency-related would have been impossible...or would it really? As ghosts can think for themselves? They aren't solid at all, so that's not like controlling someone alive.
    Actually, I think that because their minds are still present, they could be controlled through Legilimency or an Imperius curse. I mean, other kinds of things, like Basilisks and Lupin's "waddiwassi" spell, can affect them (Although that was technically on a Poltergeist, I think the principle holds true). Based on canonical evidence, it's actually pretty probable that Voldemort could control them. Not just through Legilimency, either. He might use a Cruciatus curse, or other means of physically controlling someone. It probably wouldn't be as effective on a spirit-based being as a human, but it would work.

    On the use of dragons: I actually quite like the idea of Voldemort (or someone - maybe in the Middle Ages) using dragons in a war. The image I have in my head is rather like dog or cockfighting. Voldemort (his servants, actually) would starve the dragon and make it as vicious as possible. They would keep it in a cage, I imagine, very cramped, with the metal enchanted to withstand very high heat. Then, during a battle, they would point it in the direction of their enemy and open the cage. They wouldn't need to control it, exactly, just get out of the way.


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