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  1. #1
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    The First War

    Hi,
    I know it's not mentioned in canon, but do you suppose it's possible that Dementors were used in the First War? Sirius did say: "...he had huge numbers at his command -- not just witches and wizards but all manner of Dark creatures..." so that does leave it a bit open. I wrote a story several years ago where Dementors attacked James and Lily, although no one ever questioned it. I'm curious, though, what others think here. And what other Dark creatures do you suppose Sirius might have been referring to?
    Thanks!
    ~Gina

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    I have a hard time imagining that the Ministry would be so willing to let the dementors work for them again if they had already joined Voldemort's side. They're closed-minded, but not that dumb. The fact that so many Ministry officials find it hard to believe that dementors would ever support Voldemort points to the idea that the dementors had nothing to do with the Dark Lord in the first war.

    As far as other Dark creatures--the first thing that came to my mind was Inferi. I don't have my books with me at the moment, but I feel like I remember somebody mentioning in HBP that Voldemort was known to use Inferi in the first war.

    Giants also played a role on Voldemort's side. I can't remember where it's mentioned, but the Lexicon seems to agree with me, so I think I'm right about that.

    I can see Voldemort using some werewolves too, if they were coerced. Maybe goblins. I would guess that the creatures he used were probably half human (or at least human-like in mental capacity, like house-elves or goblins), since they have to make a decision to follow him.

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  3. #3
    Justice
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    Voldemort definitely used Inferi the first time around. I think he used them extensively. I would think he probably had Giants helping him too. I agree with Eponine that Dementors probably didnít join him because otherwise the Ministry wouldnít work with them again.

    I donít think he used Goblins. I donít think Goblins would ever submit to wizards which Voldemort requires, so I donít think Goblins would ever join him. They would probably remain loyal only to themselves. I donít think house-elves would join Voldemort unless their masters commanded them too. They donít have free will to choose to join Voldemort. I can see him using werewolves.

  4. #4
    Wembricken
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    With other dark creatures and so on that Voldemort would have used, I think it's also important to consider the flip side of the coin. Okay, would Voldemort have used ghosts and goblins, etc, but also - would they have had a reason to join him?

    Some dark creatures may not be a position to be motivated one way or another. I'm thinking of Inferi here (which Voldemort most definitely did have in the First War), which are creatures, but not thinking, breathing creatures that could either a) decide to join Voldemort, or b) be magically persuaded to join him. They are just things, to be controlled by magic. Other creatures, such as dementors, might arguably fall into this category, depending on whether or not you think them capable of thought or not.

    I think Justice is right on about the goblins never submitting to Voldemort. They are clearly a fierce race with a lot of pride in themselves. They might have joined Voldemort if they saw that it served their interests, but I doubt that ultimately they would have believed joining him was beneficial (even if they did initially), given he was proposing wizard supremacy over all the world, not just the magical world.

    The same goes for giants. In the books, we see how even Death Eaters had to negotiate with giants, rather than purely use magic to control them. But giants have had it pretty hard under wizards and so naturally might be more inclined to join with someone who gives them opportunities to attack humans at will. Werewolves are similar also, having had a pretty crummy time within wizarding society and thus being more likely (like Greyback) to want revenge. Vampires are another example of a possibly marginalized group that might be aching for revenge.

    As for ghosts, I don't see Voldemort using them, at least not extensively. What motivation would ghosts have to help him? Unless they were strong believers in some cause or another in life, I doubt there is much that could persuade a ghost to help Voldemort or anyone else. True, they might be susceptible to some kind of magical control or another, but like things such as the basilisk attack, I imagine the success of this control would be hindered significantly more than if it were a real person.

  5. #5
    Wembricken
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    Hi Gina!

    I'm currently writing a First War fic at the moment and I ended up asking myself the same question. It's kind of difficult to judge, based on what we DO know in canon.

    I get the impression from the books, for example, that the dementors have been guarding Azkaban for quite some time. Aunt Petunia seems aware of them as being a part of Azkaban and given that, at minimum, she would have learned this from her sister no later than 1981 (and more likely far earlier, when they were children and still on speaking terms), I would say it's safe to say that dementors were likely guarding Azkaban throughout much, if not most (or all) of the First War. Furthermore, given that dementors continued to guard Azkaban up until the Second War, it is likely that the Ministry did not have ample reason to distrust dementors, or at least, all dementors. This indicates to me that there was not the full-scale revolt that we see in the Second War.

    That's not to say that dementors did not join Voldemort, however. In fact, in my story, I have some dementors guarding Azkaban and remaining loyal to the Ministry, and others joining with Voldemort. We don't have much canon information about what makes a dementor tick, what they think (if they think), so if you wanted to have dementors join Voldemort in your fic, I think it's reasonable to assume that there are factions, rather than the dementors all acting with one mind. After all, if dementors guard the wizard prison at the Ministry's whim (even if this is only a facade), then they must have some means of thinking for themselves and communicating with humans, otherwise the Ministry would not have been able to negotiate such an arrangement.

    Some might have believed they were more likely to have more people to feed on by following Voldemort, others might have enjoyed the influx of Dark witches and wizards into Azkaban as sufficient. A possible explanation for the complete dementor revolt during the Second War was that they already knew what Voldemort was about and were more thoroughly convinced that they would do better under him.

  6. #6
    fizzingwizzbee
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    This is just speculation but I reckon the dementors never joined Voldemort in the first war because he didn't really need them.
    However a big thing changed from the first war to the second which was alot of Voldemorts most loyal death eaters were in Azkaban. By seeking out the death eaters he got both them and his death eaters back in one go.

    Again this is speculation but I can't imagine Voldemort being very found of dementors. He had a very tough childhood with ALOT of bad memories. A dementor must be as bad for him as it is for Harry if not worse. I also reckon Voldemort would probably struggle to produce a patronus. I can't see him having truly happy memories to look back on to conjure it. But I may be wrong.

    As for other creatures I think inferi are a certain, I believe it is mentioned near the start of HBP. Also werewolves, giants are very likely. Looking deeper into the books for possibilities I'd hazard a guess at Vampires, trolls, snakes, banshees maybe.

  7. #7
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    I personally say no to Dementors in the First War.

    Possible dark creatures:
    Inferi
    Werewolves
    Giants
    Possibly Vampires
    I could see him using Dragons, to be honest
    Trolls
    Some ghosts perhaps?
    Hags

    One thing about the Goblins, Griphook says somewhere in DH that Goblins don't fight wizard wars, and that they are neutral.
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  8. #8
    fizzingwizzbee
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    Dragons are meant to be untamable so I can't see them being used for that reason. Even the gringotts one did a runner the first chance it got

  9. #9
    Lovemagic
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maple_and_PheonixFeather
    I personally say no to Dementors in the First War.

    Possible dark creatures:
    Inferi
    Werewolves
    Giants
    Possibly Vampires
    I could see him using Dragons, to be honest
    Trolls
    Some ghosts perhaps?
    Hags

    One thing about the Goblins, Griphook says somewhere in DH that Goblins don't fight wizard wars, and that they are neutral.
    Originally Posted by fizzingwizzbee
    Dragons are meant to be untamable so I can't see them being used for that reason. Even the gringotts one did a runner the first chance it got
    I disagree with fizzingwizzbee. Well, I don't really know. Voldemort is extremely powerful. He probably had the capacity to control one or two dragons, at least. He could have controlled them by somehow bewitching them or getting in their heads and messing with their thoughts like he does to people....

    but it sounds far-fetched, just a bit.

    What exactly is it that Hags can do? I can't seem to remember. Also, I'm not sure if Voldemort would have used trolls. Stupid, easily fooled creatures--they're not reliable. And they stink.

    I don't think ghosts could do anything to help fight the war--they go right through things. Perhaps things like deception, finding out information. They can't die or get captured anyway.

    But the others could've helped, yes.

    Hayden

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by LovemagicWhat exactly is it that Hags can do? I can't seem to remember. Also, I'm not sure if Voldemort would have used [I
    trolls[/I]. Stupid, easily fooled creatures--they're not reliable. And they stink.

    I don't think ghosts could do anything to help fight the war--they go right through things. Perhaps things like deception, finding out information. They can't die or get captured anyway.

    But the others could've helped, yes.

    Hayden
    I don't actually know what Hags do, they're just scary and gross Good point about trolls though. I didn't think of that. I was thinking in terms of reaking havic I figured ghosts may help simply because they can't die, so they could be used to do things that would have been risky for humans, you know?
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