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  1. #1
    Wizengamot Ravenclaw
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    Wizarding Geography

    Lately, there has been a lot of discussion of wizarding geography and the drawing of maps, and I was hoping to address a few questions I have with the opinions of the boards. I'd like to start with France.

    Do you think the French provinces would be drawn the same in the wizarding world as it would be in the Muggle one? How do you think it would be different and why?

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    I think that the provinces would be the same because wizards aren't in charge of the country, they are simply in charge of the wizards in the country, which are very minimal as compared to the muggles. I also don't think they'd have any reason to change the provinces either.
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    Wizengamot Ravenclaw
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    Do you really think so? Tim and I have been going on and on about how the North American borders would be drawn, and now wizarding events and differing Muggle ones would have shaped different borders? Or do you think it is just because France is so much older than the Americas?

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    I haven't actually seen the maps *blushes* My logic says that the countries would all be the same, simply because I can't see a reason for wizards to switch around what the world is already mapped out as. I guess what I am sort of trying to say is like, wizards, for the most part, have the same cities, besides the ones they created, but I think Hogsmead is the only one, so there wouldn't really be any point in changing borders and such. Also I think that it would make their job harder as they communicate with Prime Ministers and such, so if they made like Switzerland part of France and there was a threat in Muggle France only, they would consider Switzerland France and would have to inform both heads of countries, where if they kept it all the same, they'd just deal with France France. As well, it would be super hard for Muggleborns to completely relearn the globe, if you know what I mean.
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    France, unlike say, Germany, Italy... Spain, was unified from a much earlier era. In general, France is a country that is strong enough to hold together as a center with a nationalist culture.

    This is not to say that France does not have regional cultures, but that the French government has historically been very hard on people who want to revolt. See: French Basques.

    Also, unlike say, Great Britain, the French are much more interested in maintaining their intense national culture. There is little devolution of power, even French colonies today have departments in the national French government and are considered part of France, no different from mainland France.

    Wizarding France I would think would probably have about the same borders as they have in Muggle France. They might have the Flanders part of Belgium, if you want to kill Belgium, and they might not have the French part of Basque country, and their borders with Italy might be a bit different, but in all honesty, they'd be about the same.
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  6. #6
    sorrow_of_severus
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    From what we've seen in the books, wizarding geography seems to be the same as Muggle geography in that the only countries mentioned are familiar ones. Ireland and Bulgaria competed against each other in the Quidditch World Cup, Charlie works with dragons in Romania, Bertha Jorkins got lost in Albania and ran into Lord Voldemort, and didn't Bill once have a pen pal from Brazil? Admittedly, it cannot be proven if the magic communities use the same borders for these countries as the Muggle ones.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OliveOil_Med
    Lately, there has been a lot of discussion of wizarding geography and the drawing of maps, and I was hoping to address a few questions I have with the opinions of the boards. I'd like to start with France.

    Do you think the French provinces would be drawn the same in the wizarding world as it would be in the Muggle one? How do you think it would be different and why?
    As far as I am concerned, Savoy and (especially) Nice should all go back to being Italian. Garabaldi must be avenged! Corsica should also revert to being Italian - Napoleon was an Italian after all.

    Personal feelings aside, all of these territories were annexed by France post Statute of Secrecy, so French wizards might not notice or care about whatever the French Muggles do to push the border around since the late 17th century. Also, the gains from the French Revolutionary and the Napoleonic Wars should also not apply.

    On the other hand, the border could keep changing to encompass a culturally French area. So the borders would be roughly the same as contemporary France. Former Italian areas might be grey areas, and they could conceivably belong to either country, based on your preferences. Same goes for the more Germanic parts of Alsace and Lorraine, which could either be part of France or a German state. Brittany and the Basque lands north of the Pyrenees might be independent or have special statuses, owing to their unique cultures.

    As for internal administrative divisions in general, I'm not sure there would be any. Considering that France's population is roughly similar to Britain's, the wizarding population should also be somewhere around 7000 or 10000 or so. For such a tiny citizen body, there might not be any need for any internal divisions - the whole country would just be governed as one unit.

    Tim the Enchanter

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim the Enchanter
    As far as I am concerned, Savoy and (especially) Nice should all go back to being Italian. Garabaldi must be avenged! Corsica should also revert to being Italian - Napoleon was an Italian after all.

    Hehehe... revanche! Revanche for Garabaldi!

    What about Alsace and Lorraine? At the risk of angering my favorite Frenchman in the world, I wonder if at least Alsace would be part of Germany?

    *kinda sorta really wants a border war between wizarding France and Germany. REVANCHE!!

    I'm much more interested in France's overseas departments These areas - French Guyana, Martinique - etc, would these be part of wizarding France? Would they never have been colonized? If they are part of wizarding France, would they also have representation in the mainland government like their Muggle counterparts?
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  9. #9
    wishbones and witches
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    Maybe the Wizarding World would have adapted their borders, but from how Hogwarts was founded we can be sure that it wasn't always that way since Hogwarts is in Scotland which was a different country at that time. I think we can assume that Hogwarts took students from all over Britain right from the start since two of the Founders were from England, one from Scotland and one from Wales.

    It could mean that they took students from a range of countries (like Dumstrang) but it could also mean that they didn't really care about Muggle borders and made their own and just chose to keep the island as one country.

    I'm not sure what they'd do about the continent though since it would be a bit tricky to split it themselves and, as other people have pointed out, they have the same countries as Muggles for Quidditch. They might have, just for simplicity's sake, used the Muggle borders for mainland Europe.

    xxSue

  10. #10
    Wizengamot Ravenclaw
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    That raises an interesting question. The French do seem to have a strong national unity, but would the wizarding French accept Muggle-aquired colonies to because they share their language and culture (especially since the colonies themselves considere themselves to be French)? Do you think Quebec would factor into this too? Because from what I have read, the goul of Quebec seems to be to become an independent nation in their own write, and not just another part of France?

    And do you think the wizarding French would recognize all the same province borders as the Muggles do? Which provinces would be part of other countries and part of which ones? What are the opnions on Corsica? And about Nice, I assumed it was just a city, but is there a whole region of Nice as well?

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