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Thread: The Sorting Hat

  1. #1
    Seventh Year Hufflepuff
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    The Sorting Hat

    1) Do you think the Sorting Hat tells the truth, the complete truth, to the students that it Sorts? Or is it more likely to dissemble?

    2) How much does the Sorting Hat take the student's choice into account? Under what circumstances would the student's choice be disregarded?
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    Wizengamot Ravenclaw
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    Do you think the Sorting Hat tells the truth, the complete truth, to the students that it Sorts? Or is it more likely to dissemble?
    I would think so. The Sorting Hat was created to see as deeply as conceivably possible, so that would indicate absolute truth to me. It might be different than what the child would think, seeing as our true selves might be different than how we necessarily see ourselves.


    How much does the Sorting Hat take the student's choice into account? Under what circumstances would the student's choice be disregarded?
    It might depend on how bad a child wants to be in a certain House, or how well they argue their case. One case I can think of where the child's needs would be disregarded would be if they wanted to be in Slytherin, but the Sorting Hat knew they would be eatten alive Another try to place them in Ravenclaw if it seemed like their intelligence would be able to greatly flurush, or if a child was told all their life that they were stupid (despite it not being true) and the Hat would Place them in Ravenclaw just to prove that all those people were wrong (if they really belonged there, that is).

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  3. #3
    CoolCatElly
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    Quote Originally Posted by AidaLuthien
    1) Do you think the Sorting Hat tells the truth, the complete truth, to the students that it Sorts? Or is it more likely to dissemble?
    I think what the hat sees more than anything is potential. It can't foresee the future, so whether or not a student lives up to that potential is up to them. For example, it saw that Hermione was incredibly clever and had courage, but placing her in Gryff would not mean that she would not make cowardly choices, just as if she were placed in Ravenclaw something might have happened to make her give up on her studies. So yes, I don't think the hat will ever put anyone into the wrong house. I mean, Snape had strong Slyth qualities, and his sense of self preservation was stronger than his courage maybe, but it was he still had choices, and at the end he acted like a Gryff when he risked his life for the cause. So yes, the hat sees their inner nature, and I think its always right.

    2) How much does the Sorting Hat take the student's choice into account? Under what circumstances would the student's choice be disregarded?
    As we saw with Harry, I think the hat will most likely take the student's wishes into account when there is an almost 50/50 mix between qualities. Had Hermione, for example, really really wanted to be in Ravenclaw and had told the hat so, I think it would have sorted her into it. Tom Riddle, however, would have been a slyth no matter which house he might have considered...

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    Seventh Year Hufflepuff
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    Mmm, perhaps I should explain.

    What I meant by the first question was more like:

    Would the Sorting Hat deliberately lie to a student? If the Hat is deciding between two (or more) Houses, would it tell the student which Houses it was considering? Would it be conceivable for the Sorting Hat to straight out lie? Why or why not?
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    Seventh Year Gryffindor
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    What I don't entirely get is, why should the Hat lie? What would be its motivation?

    I can imagine one situation - when it needs the child to make a decision - so it'll pretend to be choosing the house that the child least wants to be in, so that they will think 'no, not Slytherin, please, put me in Hufflepuff instead' or something like that (although even that sounds weird to me now).

    So, I don't think the Hat would lie. I really don't see why it would. I expect it could, in theory, because it does seem to have a mind of its own, but ...
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  6. #6
    CoolCatElly
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    Quote Originally Posted by AidaLuthien
    Mmm, perhaps I should explain.

    What I meant by the first question was more like:

    Would the Sorting Hat deliberately lie to a student? If the Hat is deciding between two (or more) Houses, would it tell the student which Houses it was considering? Would it be conceivable for the Sorting Hat to straight out lie? Why or why not?
    No, I don't think the hat would ever lie to a student. All we know from the books shows us that the students can hear the hat "think" and consider where to put them. The hat was created for the simple purpose of sorting and writing a song every year - I don't think it is "alive" enough to have motivations for lying... if that makes sense.

    You can always do it though - I mean, if this is a fic you're considering, you're always allowed to play with the canon concepts. As long as you make it believable, or even just post an A/N mentioning that this is your take on the hat, nothing is really too unbelievable...

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    Elene

  7. #7
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    Would the Sorting Hat deliberately lie to a student? If the Hat is deciding between two (or more) Houses, would it tell the student which Houses it was considering? Would it be conceivable for the Sorting Hat to straight out lie? Why or why not?

    I don't think it would lie. Actually, I don't think it could. It kinda of just thinks out loud, if you know what I mean. I also think it could maybe say what it was considering, if perhaps the person didn't seem to completely fit somewhere. Like with Harry, Harry goes `Not Slytherin' and he as good as tells him he was considering it. Why I think the hat wouldn't lie is because it's job is to sort it and not really tell the student about themselves, you know? Also, lying would probably lead to sorting into the wrong house, and that would be a lot of trouble.
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  8. #8
    Wizengamot Ravenclaw
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    Another thing you need to consider about the Hat and lying is that in order for a person to lie, they need to have some sort of motivation. The Sort Hat might be intelligent, but it is still is just a hat. What would it have to gain be diliberatly placing a student in a House where they don't belong?

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  9. #9
    Seventh Year Hufflepuff
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    Well...

    I need the girl to be in Gryffindor, thus my Gryffindor traits thread.

    The thing is, while I know why she wants to be in Gryffindor, she doesn't have many particularly Gryffindor-ish traits. The second part of the two-shot is probably going to be about how she discovers her true Gryffindor nature. The thing is she's not initially very Gryffindor-ish. Too quiet, too introspective, not willing to fight up front.

    I was wondering if the Hat would lie, or just be able to keep things from her. I conceive of her Sorting as a big argument, with the Hat suggesting both Ravenclaw and Slytherin (knowing full well that while she has some Slytherin traits, she would not be well received there and shouldn't be Sorted there), in lieu of her choice of Gryffindor. It is trying to tease out her reasons for wanting to be in Gryffindor. It can't completely figure it out. Or maybe it does, but just wants to make her 'say' it.

    I don't know why the Hat would be engaged in stream of consciousness thought with the student. For one thing, it's not written that way. So, that suggests to me that the Hat is capable of keeping thoughts to itself and telling the student what it wants to.

    Yes... that was a lot of explanation.
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  10. #10
    Seventh Year Gryffindor
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    Or maybe it does, but just wants to make her 'say' it.
    That's roughly what I meant in my post, but why would the Hat need to do that? He doesn't need her to know why she is in Gryffindor - the Hat's task is simply to sort.

    I too think that the Hat can decide what to tell the students and what not to tell. But I don't get why the Hat would need the girl to realise where she wants to be and why. If anything, that's something she's supposed to figure out over the years.
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