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Thread: Removal of the Same-Sex Pairing category.

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToBeOrNotToBeAGryffindor
    I don't and won't differentiate between 'slash' (I really don't like that term) and het situations. I would use that benchmark for both.
    You misunderstood what I said. I was not, by any means at all, saying that there should be different bench marks for same-sex pairings and het pairings. I'm here vouching for fairness in the warnings; why would I then go and say there needs to be a difference? I was merely saying that, with any form of sexual situation in general, be it heterosexual or homosexual, it is hard to draw a line of what constitutes the warning.

    I admittedly probably shouldn't have said, 'slash/het', but in my mind I was operating under the suggestion that if those were added, it would still be hard to say when they needed use. You could say that with all the warnings, though, but none of the others have offensive tones to them.

    I only meant that with the slash warning, as with the sexual situation warning, it would be hard to say what constitutes the warning when you come to the gray area, and that I agreed with Inverarity's point on that subject.
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  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by fg_weasley


    You misunderstood what I said. I was not, by any means at all, saying that there should be different bench marks for same-sex pairings and het pairings. I'm here vouching for fairness in the warnings; why would I then go and say there needs to be a difference? I was merely saying that, with any form of sexual situation in general, be it heterosexual or homosexual, it is hard to draw a line of what constitutes the warning.

    I admittedly probably shouldn't have said, 'slash/het', but in my mind I was operating under the suggestion that if those were added, it would still be hard to say when they needed use. You could say that with all the warnings, though, but none of the others have offensive tones to them.

    I only meant that with the slash warning, as with the sexual situation warning, it would be hard to say what constitutes the warning when you come to the gray area, and that I agreed with Inverarity's point on that subject.
    I didn't misunderstand so much as clarify my prior point, which I did not, after reading it, articulate particularly well. I found no offense or anything with what you said. I agree that there should be a clear line of warning/no warning, as outlined in the rest of my post.

    I think, for the most part, we're pretty much all on the same page here. The warning is more 'offensive' by far than the category itself, and if the tag/warning stays, there needs to be some sort of line set by the powers that be, spelling out in clear terms what constitutes a warning/tag for 'slash'.
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  3. #43
    psijupiter
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    Quote Originally Posted by fg_weasley
    I think Inverarity's point is a valid one. What one person may view doesn't need a slash tag, another person might. That's just it, though, isn't it? Where do you draw he line on what 'needs' a warning? Two homosexual people holding hands might making someone uncomfortable, whereas to someone else like, say, the author, it shouldn't need a warning. If you're going for the obvious, then, yeah, duh, if your characters get to third base you need a warning. But what about the gray area before that? The same goes for the slash/het differentiation in the sexual situations tag, however, so ... I still think loosing the warning is the best choice.
    I suppose the answer goes along with the rating. Any sexual situations that are okay in a 1st-2nd year fic wouldn't need a warning, because that is pretty much equivalent to what you see in the books/films. If your fic is rated 6th-7th year/Professors because of the sexual situations, then you should put up a sexual situations warning.

    Sexual situations for 3rd-5th year fics would be a bit of a grey area, I guess. I suppose it is safest to warn for any sexual situations that is more explicit than what we see in the books/films.

    I agree that having one sexual situations warning that covers both het and slash would be better, but I understand the need to seperate het and slash, so a good middle ground is to warn for both equally, but separately. (*winces* Oh, equal but separate, lovely.) Still having a 'het sexual situations' and a 'slash sexual situations' warnings would be helpful for those searching for slash outsaide of the romance categories.

  4. #44
    Colores
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    I want to preface these comments with the disclaimer that these opinions are my own only, and are not necessarily representative of the thoughts of the moderator team.

    re: SSP category because you can search for it

    This was brought up in a very early post and has since been ignored: you can search by warning. Ergo, it would be possible to eliminate SSP and still find slash fics without sifting through romance because you could do an advanced search for "romance" and the "slash" warning.

    re: Sexual situations warning for het/slash

    Sexual situations applies the same way to both, as has been stated. Slash is just an additional warning on top of the situation. Think about it as the AU warning applied to stories - instead of being a warning against something some people view as immoral, think about it as a warning of a situation not explored in canon.

    The (I won't say Missouri) compromise:

    There have been two issues brought up here: eliminating SSP and eliminating the slash warning. No one has talked about eliminating both because we need some way to distinguish SSP stories for those that want to read them. Obviously people have contested keeping both because that's what this discussion is about. So if we were to compromise with the category and the warning, it would mean keeping one and not the other. From a logistical standpoint, it is only possible to eliminate the category, and not the warning.

    Why? Because of what someone brought up on page 2 or so of this thread. Slash might appear in a category other than SSP, just like AU can appear in a category that is not "Alternate Universe." There has to be a way to account for slash on the site. Sorry, we don't live in a perfect world. Yes I'm holding out for the day when people will accept homosexuality and openly legalize gay marriage everywhere, but that day is still coming and won't be here for a long time. Plus, eliminating the category means the only means left of finding a SSP story is through the slash warning search (think of it as a tag, in this way) so in order to capture the advantage of still being readily available to those that want to read it, there has to be some kind of tag on the story. This tag would be the slash warning.

    Slash and AU are the only two warnings that also have respective categories. I think we can all see why AU has both a category and a warning. They do different things. There can be a James/Lily story that has AU elements to it in the form of subplots (for example, Remus not being a werewolf) or there could be a James/Lily story that's very AU (James and Lily didn't die in Voldemort's attack) that might find a home in either AU or James/Lily depending on how romantic the story is. The point is, we let the author choose. If we eliminate the slash warning, then if the story had even a slash subplot, the story would have to be put in SSP because it would have no other home. There has to be a way to account for these stories, just like we account for AU ones. If you have to put a story with any semblance of slash in the SSP category, that is also unfair, as it limits the author from posting the story in one of the other, larger categories that might be a better fit.

    Bottom line, we don't necessarily need the slash warning and an SSP category. But the only one that can be logistically eliminated is the latter.

    Please also note that if SSP category were eliminated, the sub-categories of Harry/Draco and Remus/Sirius would remain as separate categories. I'd envision the rest of the slash pairings going to Ron/OC, Harry/OC, Draco/OC, etc.

    Additionally, having the slash warning answers back the objection about what gender character should be going with the males in those categories I listed above. If the slash tag exists, then clearly it's Ron/male OC. If the tag isn't there, it's Ron/female OC.

  5. #45
    Morbius Liadon
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    To be honest, I think way to much of a fuss is being made about this. The category and warning help identify the stories for what they are so you can find them or avoid them more easily, and if it stops a few people who would otherwise be offended, from reading it, then why is it such a big deal? Is it really so hurtful and horrible to put a warning in your story? If I visited a site where the majority of the community was homosexual and wrote SSP fictions and they wanted me to put warnings in my story for having heterosexual situations in it, I wouldn't be thinking that they were trying to single me out or show me lesser in any way, I would think that they were trying to warn people that my story differs from the average story submitted to the site. Even if a site wanted me to warn when I had religious themes, common in what few stories I write, I would only think that they were trying to make it easier to find or avoid for those want to read such stories, versus those who are uncomfortable reading them. It isn't as big a deal as it's being made out to be, as least in my opinion anyway.

    Final vote from me : Keep both

    Just as a personal note, I have nothing against homosexuals and mean no offense by anything in this post. I may see homosexuality as immoral due to my religion, but I by no means hate or dislike gay people. In fact I have a gay aunt, brother-in-law, and sister-in-law

  6. #46
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    The category and warning help identify the stories for what they are so you can find them or avoid them more easily, and if it stops a few people who would otherwise be offended, from reading it, then why is it such a big deal? Is it really so hurtful and horrible to put a warning in your story?
    Hmmm...the biggest point of the discussion was that, when there is a SAME SEX category, why do you still need to have the SLASH warning? Isn't it redundant, and perhaps a tad offensive, when something you have already separated as a definite category have to be shunted aside again as a warning? I am sorry if this sounds repetitive - it certainly has been gone over, but I am just trying to give my opinion on it.

    I think Fresca made a good case for keeping the warning, and letting the category go, but I agree with those who said we should keep the category, and ditch the 'warning' label. As for having slash in the sub-plot, anyone who doesn't like it can stop reading the story. I have read a few fics myself which had themes I didn't like reading, so I gave them up, and I am still reading fanfiction.

    Whatever the final decision is, I feel it should at least bring a change.
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  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Natalie
    Hmmm...the biggest point of the discussion was that, when there is a SAME SEX category, why do you still need to have the SLASH warning? Isn't it redundant, and perhaps a tad offensive, when something you have already separated as a definite category have to be shunted aside again as a warning? I am sorry if this sounds repetitive - it certainly has been gone over, but I am just trying to give my opinion on it.
    But the main issue that was brought up about that is the problem with fics that really aren't a romance story, but an aspect of the story is a homosexual relationship. Say the story is a D/A, the author could not classify it as a D/A because of the 'necessity' of placing it in the SSP category. I can definitely see where that could hit a snag.

    I do agree, however, that a tag should only be inserted if there is actual sexual content that would warrant a warning in a het relationship. (I think, after further review, that second base is most likely a better line) Unfortunately, living in a perfect world is almost a fantasy in this day and age, so I personally would not be offended overly much if both labels were retained, but it doesn't mean a lot of us wish that it was not necessary.
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  8. #48
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    As I said in my earlier post, their are reasons for both the category and the warnings. The category is for when the story's main plot revolves around the relationship as a 'romance' story. The warning is therefore needed for same-sex sexual situations in subplots, in non-SSP categories, whenever the relationship may not be otherwise obvious before reading. The SSP warning acts the same as the sexual situations warning. The moderators will discuss the wording of both of these warnings and try to create a more equal semantic base for you all.

    I will look into being able to change the word "Warnings" to "Warnings/Tags."

    On a purely technical note, the suggestion to remove the SSP category is slightly impractical because it would require every SSP author to reassign their fictions. This includes authors who no longer visit the site who would therefore be unable to reassign leaving us with many fictions that would be homeless. It would also be impractical to place all of these fictions in OP for traffic and reader-ease reasons.

    We have asked before that suggestion discussions end after the moderators have stated their views. This is because some suggestions can be controversial and we wish to keep the peace. I will now close this thread as the moderators are discussing what can be done.

    We appreciate all of your views and hope you understand that this is a sensitive topic - whether it should be or not is an issue for somewhere other than our site - and must be dealt with in a sensitive manner.

    We are trying to do this and ask for your patience in seeing a clear result. We will be reviewing our warnings system and we will explain any changes and define all of our warnings, ratings and categories for you shortly. For now, please view the help essays on the archives for our current protocols.

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