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Thread: Muggles, Squibs, and Purebloods

  1. #1
    Inverarity
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    Muggles, Squibs, and Purebloods

    Moved from "The Executioner" because it was getting off-topic:

    Quote Originally Posted by Equinox Chick
    The Blacks blasted Squibs off their Family tree (although this isn't stated in the books, but in the tree drawn by JK Rowling afterwards.) The presence of a Squib in your family is proof that there's some Muggle blood somewhere down the line, just as a Muggle-born must have had a witch/wizard ancestor.
    Heh. I hate to keep nitpicking details that are not really part of the original question... well, no, I don't. I'm a canon nitpicker, I can't help it.

    Has Rowling ever actually said that having a Squib in your family is proof of Muggle blood? Because while that's a reasonable supposition, I'm not convinced it's necessarily true. Maybe purebloods can be born Squibs on occasion, just like someone without a family history of deafness can nonetheless be born deaf.

    Now, Ron did point out that there really isn't any such thing as a "pureblood" anyway, since pretty much all wizarding families have Muggles in their family trees (else the wizarding world would have disappeared long ago).

    But, to the extent that Rowling has written about wizarding genetics (with her admittedly dodgy grasp of science), I don't think she's established that a Squib is proof of Muggle ancestory.

  2. #2
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    This is from an interview with JK Rowling.

    Are all the pure-blood families going to die out? (We've lost the Blacks and the Crouches during the series)

    Don't forget that, as Sirius revealed in 'Order of the Phoenix', none of these families is really 'pure' – in other words, they merely cross Muggles and Squibs off the family tree and pretend that they didn't exist. But yes, the number of families claiming to be pure is diminishing. By refusing to marry Muggles or Muggle-borns, they are finding it increasingly difficult to perpetuate themselves. This subject is touched upon in 'Half-Blood Prince'.

    Quote Originally Posted by Inverarity
    But, to the extent that Rowling has written about wizarding genetics (with her admittedly dodgy grasp of science), I don't think she's established that a Squib is proof of Muggle ancestory.
    She did write in Beedle the Bard (Albus Dumbledore on Babbity Rabbity and her cackling stump.) that Muggle-borns were found to have a magical ancestor, but you're right she hasn't actually said that Squibs prove that there's some nasty Muggleness in your family.
    I think the reaction of the Blacks to any Squibs in their family looks as if they were desperate to hide any link to Muggles - which is probably why I've gone with the rogue Muggle gene in the family and run with it.

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    I've always thought of Squibs as not being the result of Muggle-born strains in a Pureblood line, but rather a product of constant inbreeding amongst close Pureblood families. With the Pureblood maniacs constantly intermarrying with each other over generations, I imagine that a few would turn out to be inbred and incapable of performing magic, and are therefore Squibs.

    Just my theory...

    Tim the Enchanter

  4. #4
    Enneirda
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    I've pondered the subject of Squibs in the magical world for a little while now. I read somewhere (shoot, now that I need to look up something my books are nowhere in sight!) that the Squib and the Muggleborn are the reversed versions of each other; therefore it can be theorized that the Squib is the descendant of the Muggle in the family's ancestors while the Muggleborn is the descendant of the witch or wizard in the family.

    I have a few questions about Squibs (while we're on the subject ).

    For one, can a Squib choose to live in the Wizarding World instead of the Muggle World? I know it's mentioned that the Weasleys have a relative who is a Squib and works in the Muggle World as an accountant, but could he have lived in the Wizarding World instead?

    And if a Squib can live in the Magical world, can he commit a crime and then be sent to Azkaban? Or is there another punishment, like complete banishment?

    Also, the Squib was once considered a second-class citizen. Do you think this intolerance is still integrated in Wizards' and Witches' minds?

    -e

  5. #5
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    Filch is a Squib, so I assume, yes, they can choose to live in the wizarding world. If he could be sent to Azkaban or be banned of the wizarding community, I have no idea about. It's possible though.

    About the intolerance, I'd say maybe, but not so prominent anymore. I would rather say the Squibs still remember the intolerance they once faced, maybe not yet quite forgiving the witches and wizards for treating them like second class citizens. Also, from what I read, I have rather the impression that Squibs try to keep it a secret that they are Squibs. Harry didn't know Mrs Figg was a Squib, and neither did he know about Filch.
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  6. #6
    lupins_girl2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim
    I've always thought of Squibs as not being the result of Muggle-born strains in a Pureblood line, but rather a product of constant inbreeding amongst close Pureblood families. With the Pureblood maniacs constantly intermarrying with each other over generations, I imagine that a few would turn out to be inbred and incapable of performing magic, and are therefore Squibs.
    I believe this is entirely possible. There's this one family that lives like the county over from me that inbred. According to what I've heard, as each generation was born, there was more and more problems to the kids. If the same is with pure-bloods, then the genes just interacted with each other in a way that banned magic from the individual.

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  7. #7
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    I have a couple of questions, too. Do you think that if a Squib married a wizard, the child would be a witch?

    Also, would St. Mungo's take care of the Squib if she was ill and needs help? Or would she rather go to a Muggle sanatorium?
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  8. #8
    Inverarity
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    Quote Originally Posted by luinrina
    I have a couple of questions, too. Do you think that if a Squib married a wizard, the child would be a witch?
    I'd guess the probability would be at least as great as if he married a Muggle. Maybe more, if you assume that there's a "wizarding gene," since a Squib had wizard parents and thus should carry more of the wizard gene in her DNA.

    Also, would St. Mungo's take care of the Squib if she was ill and needs help? Or would she rather go to a Muggle sanatorium?
    Depends on how prejudiced you want to make wizarding society, but I'd assume they wouldn't actually turn a Squib away.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bine
    I have a couple of questions, too. Do you think that if a Squib married a wizard, the child would be a witch?
    I'm assuming that Squib-ism is a genetic disorder where the non-magic gene is dominant over the magic gene.

    WEll, if you consider genetics then yes, probably. There is a 50-100% chance i guess. Remember, that even though the person is a Squib, they have Wizard genes in them. Lets say the Wizard gene is "W" and the non-magic gene is "w", then the Squib would have a Ww genotype.(After all, Squib-ism is probably a mutation where the w gene is dominant) If the Wizard was a Pureblood, then his genotype would be WW, and if he was a Half-blood or Muggleborn, his genotype would be Ww.

    Now there are two theories, assuming that the child would not have any mutations:

    Pureblood:

    WW x Ww (the "x" means "cross between"), then the child's posible genotypes are two WW and two Ww. Since W is dominant, the child has a 100% chance of being a Witch/Wizard.

    Half-blood/ Muggleborn:

    Ww x Ww. The four possible genotypes are WW, two Ww and ww. So there is a 75% chance of the child being magic and 25% chance of being non-magic.

    Of course, this is all based on genetics, and based upon the assumtion that the child will NOT have a mutation like the parent Squib.

    /biology rant.

    Hope that helped in some way...

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  10. #10
    Inverarity
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    Quote Originally Posted by majestic_ginny
    WEll, if you consider genetics then yes, probably. There is a 50-100% chance i guess. Remember, that even though the person is a Squib, they have Wizard genes in them. Lets say the Wizard gene is "W" and the non-magic gene is "w", then the Squib would have a Ww genotype.(After all, Squib-ism is probably a mutation where the w gene is dominant) If the Wizard was a Pureblood, then his genotype would be WW, and if he was a Half-blood or Muggleborn, his genotype would be Ww.
    I think you meant the W gene is dominant. A Squib, like a Muggle, would be ww.

    A half-blood or Muggle-born would not necessarily be Ww. If purebloods were always WW and always passed on W genes to their children, and Muggles were always ww and passed on w genes to their children, then it would be impossible for two Muggles to produce a wizard child, or for two pure-bloods to produce a Squib.

    This all assumes that the wizard genotype is based on one pair of alleles with a simple dominance relationship, which is unlikely.

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