Albus Dumbledore

[wewillmissyou]

Going back to what I was saying earlier, she could have causally mentioned that Dumbledore was gay (perhaps in Rita Skeeter's article). I think she kept it out so as not to offend anyone, or, possibly decrease book sales. It was clever of her to annouce it now.

Okay, now I could use some help.

About a week before the Dumbledore/Gellert ship was annouced (unrequuited as it may be), I had decided to ressurcut this ancient plot bunny of mine.

It takes place in the Marauder era, but a lot of it is set around the time of the great defeat of Grinewald. I had Dumbledore married with a small daughter, but I have him tell them to go (start an new life) to make sure they are safe from Grinewald and his followers.

(Assuming this now AU) Is this to OOC for Dumbledore? Would it be right to think he would send away the ones if he loves if he thought they were in danger? Or would he be protection enough?

Thoughts, please.[/FONT]

[hermy_loves_ron]

Originally Posted by cmwinters
I really think it's unfair and unrealistic to expect that if you have a love, (homosexual or heterosexual) that doesn't pan out for you, that you're to live a non-sexual life from that point forward. That's just . . . bad

Originally Posted by Morkhan
As for the 'one love only' business, with Snape/Lily and Albus/Gellert, I'd say it's justified as the horrific circumstances in which those loves ended would've surely effected both men deeply, possibly too deeply for them to truly be able to recover from. It is remarkable to me how alike Severus and Albus are, in many ways: they are both men who have devoted the entirety of their lives to making up for the single worst thing they ever did.

Personally, I don’t think it’s that unreasonable that Dumbledore didn’t really have any other loves after that pretty horrific experience. I think what Morkhan says about him being too deeply affected to recover makes sense.

I agree that he may have been hurt too deeply to ever fully recover, but I'm sure there are a number of other reasons as well--I doubt he ever really thought about romance before meeting Grindelwald, and afterward, it would just get in the way of what was really important to him: making a difference in the world. It's good that he didn't lose faith in love after that, but at the very least he may have lost faith in the posibility of romantic love for him. And maybe the reason that he was so "obsessive" about love in later years is that he wanted others to have all the things he could not.

Also, I really don't think that in his case there was anyone else out there (although it's true for some of the other couples cmwinters mentioned a while back: Harry and Ginny and Severus (who I had so hoped before DH only loved Lily as a friend) and whoever else could easily have loved others). Dumbledore was not likely to find another person who was at his level intellectually, which is part of the reason he fell in love with Grindelwald, his first equal. McGonagall was never his equal, and though I love her as a character, I've never liked that ship (not even considering she's half his age!). The only other equal, intelligence- and power-wise that we ever have known Dumbledore to have was Voldemort. And of course he wasn't going to fall in love with him. Or Snape, who wasn't quite his equal, but was pretty darn powerful.

When Dumbledore met Grindelwald, things just added up for them: they were both brilliant and powerful, wanted great things for themselves, had grand ideas to change the world, were young, irrepresionable teens--it was natural for DD to fall in love with him, and makes the fact that they were both boys really nothing more than a side note.

However, it does make me wonder if MNFF will be adding a sub-cat under Slash for Dumbledore/Grindelwald.

Beth: Excellent points. 5 points. - awarded

[harrypotterfangirl21]

And maybe the reason that he was so "obsessive" about love in later years is that he wanted others to have all the things he could not.

I disagree. I think that the reason he became so -- to borrow your word -- obssessive about love was because he couldn't have it himself. It wasn't a question of him wanting OTHER people to have it. It was the simple fact that HE had never attained love, and therefore became obssessed with the idea.

It's a common reaction, actually. I know plenty of people who have had something along these lines happen, and they have shown the same response.

Dumbledore was not likely to find another person who was at his level intellectually, which is part of the reason he fell in love with Grindelwald, his first equal. McGonagall was never his equal, and though I love her as a character, I've never liked that ship (not even considering she's half his age!). The only other equal, intelligence- and power-wise that we ever have known Dumbledore to have was Voldemort. And of course he wasn't going to fall in love with him. Or Snape, who wasn't quite his equal, but was pretty darn powerful.

I do agree with this. Grindlewald, as you pointed out, was Dumbledore's equal (or the closest thing he could find, anyway). The McGonagall/Dumbledore ship never felt right to me, and I always brushed it off as the fact that she had been his student, but now I know the real reason. Voldemort/Dumbledore isn't very plausible, for not only the obvious reasons, but also because Voldemort was about seventy when he died. Dumbledore was around 160. So again, it's a very large age difference.

However, it does make me wonder if MNFF will be adding a sub-cat under Slash for Dumbledore/Grindelwald.

I really doubt that they will. One thing that a lot of people seem to forget is that Grindlewald DIDN'T return Dumbledore's feelings -- he might not have even KNOWN about them, in fact. So having a DD/GG category would pretty much rip canon into tiny little bits, because THEY WERE NEVER TOGETHER.

I really think it's unfair and unrealistic to expect that if you have a love, (homosexual or heterosexual) that doesn't pan out for you, that you're to live a non-sexual life from that point forward. That's just . . . bad.

I'm afraid I don't quite see eye-to-eye with you on this. Yes, it might be bad for your psychological state; and yes, you might become an obssessed with love loner like Dumbledore was, but who says this is a bad thing?

Quite frankly, the truth is that we don't NEED love or sexuality. Dumbledore went pretty much his entire life without love, and he didn't keel over from lack of it. Voldemort NEVER had love in his life, and did he die from not having love? No, he did not.

I'll agree that it might do some damage to your psyche, and I'll also agree that having no love is an unhealthy thing. But it's not "bad," persay.

In fact, living a non-sexual life is a pretty common approach to take when in this type of predicament, actually. Since Dumbledore wasn't shown love in return, he stopped loving. Now, he didn't stop BELIEVING in love; nor did he stop THINKING about love and it's consequences -- he just didn't have any love in his life.

I do find it odd that he kept thinking about love and seemed to relate love to lots of things in the HP series. I suppose it's because he never had any, and therefore wanted to know all he could about it, but. . . It's not a very common scenario.

I also thought, 'So that's why he was so taken with GG and his idea of GG'. 'So that's why he came to the point of neglecting his sister'.

Yes, that's why he was so eager and willing to believe in the "Greater Good" concept. But being gay has nothing to do with him neglecting his sister. If he would have had a brother in the same predicament, I'm sure he would have neglected that brother in much the same way that he neglected Ariana. Being gay really had nothing to do with that.

That's just my two cents. Feel free to agree, disagree, or rip my ideas to shreds.

- Katie

[cirelondiel]

Quote:

Originally Posted by LucillaJoanna
I also thought, 'So that's why he was so taken with GG and his idea of GG'. 'So that's why he came to the point of neglecting his sister'.

Yes, that's why he was so eager and willing to believe in the "Greater Good" concept. But being gay has nothing to do with him neglecting his sister. If he would have had a brother in the same predicament, I'm sure he would have neglected that brother in much the same way that he neglected Ariana. Being gay really had nothing to do with that.

Actually, I interpreted LucillaJoanna's comment as "so that's why Dumbledore got SO caught up with GG and his plans that he neglected his sister". And in fact, you could say "...he neglected his family" because he didn't pay much attention to Aberforth either, who was left to care for Ariana. I don't think LucillaJoanna meant that he neglected his sibling because of her gender - her comment wasn't to do with Dumby being gay but with being in love with Grindelwald. (I think. Maybe I've got it wrong ) Anyway, I personally think that Dumbledore's feelings towards Grindelwald do explain why Dumbledore acted how he did. It wasn't merely out of friendship and his own craving for power but also because of a real infatuation.

However, it does make me wonder if MNFF will be adding a sub-cat under Slash for Dumbledore/Grindelwald.

I actually hope they don't. I'm not of the opinion that Grindelwald returned Dd's feelings or even knew of them (has JKR actually said anything about that? I'm finding it hard to keep up with everything she's said about this issue!!), so I don't think any fics could have a fleshed-out-enough romantic relationship between the two.


I agree with what hermy_loves_ron said about Dumbledore not being likely to find another person suited to him. That was exactly what I thought. Grindelwald was the only friend he ever really had who was at his intellectual level and that was probably a major factor in Dd's attraction to him - he could relate to him more than anyone else. And by the time we met Dumby in the books (90's) he was very old and preoccupied with a lot of other stuff.


This has been touched upon a bit I think and it's something I'd like to see more opinions on: I think that Dumbledore loved GG, who happened to be male so that made Dumbledore gay. I guess JK just thought of GG as a male so that was that, and Dumbledore was in love with him for the plot. If GG had appeared in JKR's mind as a woman, Dumbledore would have been straight. What do you all think about that??


So, there's my latest two knuts. I'm interested to see everyone's thoughts on these things

[LucillaJoanna]

Katie, oh my, I have gay friends and they are among the fiercest family-defenders I know. Cirelondiel (nice username!) interpreted my words correctly. Look at me now, I get snappy at my own siblings when they so much as breathe too much when I'm writing or having a great time here at the forums, hehe.

When you're passionate about something, you get to 'neglect' people you wouldn't neglect otherwise. And when that thing you're passionate about is a common passion and goal with someone you love... double the distraction!

Alex, Albus was born in 1881. Around the defeat of Grindelwald, which happens in 1945, he is no longer a spring chicken. Granted, he is in a world of magic. And even in our world, men his age still have babies. Yup. So let's say he does have a little girl. I don't think he would send them away. I think he'll stick around, in much the same way he stuck to Hogwarts to ensure the school's security from the Dark forces.

If he's not with his loved ones and the enemy pursues them... well, we know Dumbledore always thinks ahead. I vote that he doesn't let them out of his sight.

[Nymphadora]

Does the fact that Grindlewald was Dumbledores only true love, mean he never sought other, lesser, relationships? Even a man like Dumbledore has a need for affection, do you think it's impossible that he had flings, or even a deep and meaningful relationship with someone who wasn't his 'true love'?

Personally I think it's a possibility, I hate to think of Dumbledore as having no one special in his life. Many people never find or find and then lose their loved ones and go on to have satisfying relationships, even if they don't have the same intensity.

Perhaps given the disasterous consequences of the passionate love he felt for Gellert, he actually sought a less intense relationship out of fear of repeating his past mistakes?

[queen fan]

Does the fact that Grindlewald was Dumbledores only true love, mean he never sought other, lesser, relationships? Even a man like Dumbledore has a need for affection, do you think it's impossible that he had flings, or even a deep and meaningful relationship with someone who wasn't his 'true love'?

I think Dumbledore could have had some flings. He is a guy. If he had another deep and meaningful relationship Jo would have most likely mentioned that. Plus, it would have been more open in the books if he had another meaningful relationship.

Perhaps given the disasterous consequences of the passionate love he felt for Gellert, he actually sought a less intense relationship out of fear of repeating his past mistakes?

He probably would have done this right after he 'broke up' with Gellert. He was on the rebound. I think that Dumbledore would have been to busy with everything else he was doing at the time to have an intense relationship.

[deadly_muggle]

Well, some of us here are trying to say that it wasn't right that Dumbledore had to live his life without any love. But what I feel is that we're missing out on the fact that he did live that way. And he was not completely without love.

I always thought he chose taching as a creer for that reason. He loved the feeling of finally doing something for someone, and the respect he recieved. He also had so many fans, who kind of loved him. He had Harry and many other people who were so close to him.

Of course, he must have felt lonely. I mean, having to kill his one true love and all that...But, I always thought of a very strong person. Not just magically, but emotionally as well.

Other than that, I do think that Dumbledore, felt he had to spread love amongst people because of his situation. I guess he just wanted that the world did not face the dilema he felt he faced. That no matter who someone loved, so long as it was true love, it should be promoted.

Generally, I feel Dumbeldore deserved a better life. He was brilliant, and he had a pretty horrible past, before he even came to Hogwarts. Still, he made name for himself, made a place for himself in the wizarding world, at a pretty high level at that too. So he probably had a great amount of will power, and I find it hard to believe that he would have let something so trivial (as compared to the rest of his life's acheivements and losses) as being gay, to affect him.

Now, JKR indirectly told us that Dumbledore was quite fearful of giving in to power. So, I was just wondering, if he regretted the fact that he was gay, because it was such an important aspect in the fact that he later on had to fight with the man he loved.
Or, did he feel it as a boon, so as to keep himself in line, not to go overboard, to to tell himself that he was not quite as normal or as briliant as everybody thought him to be.

Thanks for answering

Kiwi

Oh, I just realised something as I was writing a fic...Dumbledore probably felt quite horrible, seeing as both the people who seemed to be of his intelect were not exactly very wonderful. Infact, he might even have thought he was to end up becoming some kind of dark sorcerer. He obviously didn't like the idea, and therefore refrained from power-any form of it

Kiwi

[Pinkcess of the Abyss]

I have a question...

What do you think a young Albus Dumbledore would name his owl?

I'm a little stuck and can't seem to come up with a decent name that would match Albus' personality. The owl I've chosen as his is a Great Grey Owl. They are quite large owls and are grey and brown in colour.

We already know that he named his Pheonix, Fawkes. I don't know if it was his sense of humour, or that Fawkes was, in fact, someone other than our good old Guy Fawkes who we love to toss into a bonfire every November Fifth. Either way I imagine him to have some deeper meaning to the name of his owl; either humerous or mythical.

Any suggestions?

[cmwinters]

Hm. Mercury?

Hermes was the Greek messenger god but his Roman counterpart was Mercury. The element Mercury, aka "Quicksilver", is also an important component of a lot of alchemical studies, and we know Dumbledore did some alchemical research with Nicholas Flamel (who was also an alchemist).

Further, the grey colouring of the owl would make this an appropriate name.

If you want something a little more frivolous, let us know?