Albus Dumbledore

[Phoenix5225]

To further discuss whether anyone knew (ie, Rita Skeeter), I would still say no. NOT because the idea of a homosexual relationship would be scandalous, but because DD/Grindlewald would be. She would have had a field day with that. The one pure man having a relationship with the one he later sought to destroy. That would be newsworthy in any event, so I don't think she knew.

[Amber0_o]

The only reason it was kept out of the books was to prevent a media frenzy, and probably, to keep the extreme Christians from having even more reason to hate the HP books.

I really don't think so. If this was true, then I don't see why she would release the information in an interview. I think she simply couldn't find any place where she could put this information without trying to stretch the plot. Harry isn't going to randomly ask Dumbledore 'Hey, what is your sexual orientation?' Or talk to him about dating, or the like. They don't have that sort of father/son relationship. It is more of a mentor/mentoree type of relationship, so I don't think Harry would have been comfortable asking that sort of thing.

And, as a small note, I'm a little offended that many people here specifically out Christians as being anti-gay, when there are many religions whose followers are against it. I don't want to start any sort of religious debate here, but I don't like the implication that only Christians can be intolerant of things. :/

[Simply Being]

Not to get too off topic, but I agree with Amber. I don't want to start a debate here either, but I think we need to stop pointing directly at one group against gay rights in particular. It would be nice if you could refer to people against gay rights as simply "people against gay rights" instead of Christians only. It might hurt some feelings. *hopes she didn't offend anyone with this*

Back to the topic...I agree with what Phoenix said about the actual pairing of GG/AD being scandalous rather than a homosexual relationship.

I do have a 'what if' question though. What if the Wizarding World had discovered Dumbledore's feelings? What could have happened? And how would this affect Dumbledore personally?

Just some things to think about, hope that's allowed.

[LuckyRatTail]

Posted by Simply Being:

I do have a 'what if' question though. What if the Wizarding World had discovered Dumbledore's feelings? What could have happened? And how would this affect Dumbledore personally?

I get the feeling that some of the teachers may have known already... Perhaps not about GG/AD, but about Dumbledore being gay. I never actually thought of him as particuarly straight, to be honest. I always considered him to be somewhat asexual - like Sherlock Holmes, you know. He just had better things to do. I certainly never pictured him with a woman. So him turning out to be gay wasn't really surprising to me. I don't think that people close to him, or those that knew him well, would be surprised either (considering that fact that he's never had a romantic relationship with a female), and I don't think it would have bothered them. If they can tolerate everything else different about Dumbledore, I think his homosexuality would be no problem.

With regard to Grindewald, though... Again, I think that people close to him would have found it acceptable as long as it stopped once Dumbledore had realised what Grindewald was really like. It actually would have offered a better explanation for why Dumbledore agreed with some of Grindewald's more terrible opinions. The rest of the world, as people have mentioned earlier, would have found it scandalous. Especially people like Rita Skeeter. As Pheonix5225 said, she would have had a field day.

The thing is, we don't really get a clear picture of how the wizarding world deals with homosexuality, as there are no openly gay characters in the books. I don't think that wizards think of 'racism' the way we do, but they clearly show it against muggleborns and some half-bloods. So maybe they have a different attitude to being gay as well?

[bling_baby]

I have to agree with people when they say that it's not the fact that there's a gay character, it's just Dumbledore being gay.

Dumbledore didn't see the type to become gay. He seemed to involved in his studies and too troubled by family life to have time for love - let alone by a man.

[cirelondiel]

BUT, this does cast Dumbledore in a bit of a new light. Not only did he buy into Grindelwald's way of thinking because he was an equal and a friend, but because Dumbledore was basically over the moon for the boy. Now, keep in mind that she said Dumbledore was in love with Grindelwald: she did NOT say that Grindelwald returned or was even aware of his feelings. Unrequited love and crushing on someone can have a very interesting psychological effect on a person. Believe me, I should know. And it's also extremely interesting how Dumbledore still believes so strongly in the power of love, when that incident turned out so horrifically bad for him.

I agree with that.

I was mildly surprised to find out that Dumbledore was gay, but then, I heard it from a friend so I had to get straight on to Mugglenet to find out if it was true And then I read that he was in love with Grindelwald, and that was what *really* surprised me. I highly doubt the two actually had that kind of relationship, it was probably unrequited. But even so, that's a pretty major fact about Dumbledore, I really do think it casts a new light on the Dumbledore and Grindelwald storyline in DH.

Not only did he buy into Grindelwald's way of thinking because he was an equal and a friend, but because Dumbledore was basically over the moon for the boy. <-- Morkhan said. Exactly. So maybe Dumbledore wasn't actually as power-hungry when he was young as he claimed to be in DH. Some of his rather silly actions were all to do with love, which can make all of us do silly things

And to realise that Grindelwald was... well, plain evil really, and then to eventually defeat him must have had a pretty profound effect on Dumbledore.

I really think it's unfair and unrealistic to expect that if you have a love, (homosexual or heterosexual) that doesn't pan out for you, that you're to live a non-sexual life from that point forward. That's just . . . bad.

As for the 'one love only' business, with Snape/Lily and Albus/Gellert, I'd say it's justified as the horrific circumstances in which those loves ended would've surely effected both men deeply, possibly too deeply for them to truly be able to recover from. It is remarkable to me how alike Severus and Albus are, in many ways: they are both men who have devoted the entirety of their lives to making up for the single worst thing they ever did.

Personally, I don’t think it’s that unreasonable that Dumbledore didn’t really have any other loves after that pretty horrific experience. I think what Morkhan says about him being too deeply affected to recover makes sense.

But then, I’m not really sure about how Dumbledore could have the strong belief in love that we’ve always seen in him. He definitely loved his family a LOT, but if he WAS affected so deeply that he couldn’t love romantically again… *shrugs* Then again, he does seem to always have known his own weaknesses (abuses power etc) so perhaps he can identify the effects his unrequited love had on him and still knows that it can be great for others…

I get the feeling that some of the teachers may have known already... Perhaps not about GG/AD, but about Dumbledore being gay. I never actually thought of him as particuarly straight, to be honest. I always considered him to be somewhat asexual - like Sherlock Holmes, you know. He just had better things to do. I certainly never pictured him with a woman. So him turning out to be gay wasn't really surprising to me. I don't think that people close to him, or those that knew him well, would be surprised either (considering that fact that he's never had a romantic relationship with a female), and I don't think it would have bothered them. If they can tolerate everything else different about Dumbledore, I think his homosexuality would be no problem.

Yeah, I never thought of him thinking about romance, really. Especially in his old age.

Anyway, I definitely think this is a big revelation… not so much the gay part, but the Grindelwald part. I do think that must have had some big effects on him that we weren’t aware of before.

Beth: Interesting discussion. 5 points.

[queen fan]

I do have a 'what if' question though. What if the Wizarding World had discovered Dumbledore's feelings? What could have happened? And how would this affect Dumbledore personally.

I think if the wizarding world would have discovered Dumbledore's feelings, it would have been Rita Skeeter. She's always flying around and finding stuff out and distorting it. She would have totally discredited Dumbledore and made the whole wizarding world believe her.

I'm not really sure how this would affect Dumbledore, because in the fifth book he was getting discredited a lot and he didn't seem to take it to hard. Though that was on a totally different subject matter.

[ron_chaser]

I was just wondering if JKR said if she had always planned on Dumbledore being gay. It seems to me that it is unlikely that she had this aspect planned out since SS/PS, but I guess it's JKR, and she does tend to pull a few surprises on us. I'm still getting used to Dumbledore being gay. It puts new meaning in some of her writing and I'm not sure if that's how she originally intended it. I have no problem with an HP character being gay, but I don't think most of us saw this one coming. I figured with Grindewald, Dumbledore was just blinded by his friendship love. It's too bad for all of us Minerva/Dumbledore shippers

Christina

[cmwinters]

Supposedly:

"My truthful answer to you... I always thought of Dumbledore as gay," said Rowling,

Beth: No off-site links allowed.

[LucillaJoanna]

So that's why he liked magenta...

The hints had been very subtle. The good humour, the liking for sweets and the purple hues in the spectrum. The fastidiousness in observing manners. They all bespoke of a rather feminine touch.

I originally posted this in the ROR, but I doubt Leah will approve that; there has been enough threads started there already about this. I only discovered this discussion here now, though. I hate being late because I have too much to catch up on now.

Anyway, here are my thoughts.

Just because Dumbledore was smitten with GG doesn't mean he acted upon it in the way some slash fics show. I haven't read any slash fics yet, but I've read enough about them here in the forums to have more than just an idea.

The audience in JKR's tour were enthralled with the news. How could you not be? She added a new dimension to a character we thought we already knew so well.

And I find it lovely that there seems to be a character in the HP universe for every kind of person living.

And it is doubly wonderful that our gay friends have such a representation.

In my mind, Dumbledore is still his regal self. One who conducts himself with dignity and honour. He had shown that when he fought Grindelwald for the truer greater good.

When I read the news, I only took another bite of Fruit and Nut and said 'Oh?' And then of course I wondered about his struggle. It was an entirely new aspect to his character. I not only thought 'So that's why he liked magenta', I also thought, 'So that's why he was so taken with GG and his idea of GG'. 'So that's why he came to the point of neglecting his sister'. 'So that's why he always seemed to be adamantly positive about love'.

He knew for himself how strong it is. It blinded him, and later, it also prevented him from killing the person who might have killed his sister. For then he would have been a murderer. And we know that in his eyes, that was the worst taint. He must be so thankful he had not committed that 'worst sin'. He only imprisoned Grindelwald. And I think this is why Aberforth is still grumpy about him.

About the 'what if's'...

Oh, even if Rita Skeeter somehow unearths evidence of Dumbledore being 'smitten' with Grindelwald, I don't think the evidence would even raise a ruckus.

Imagine it now, a letter with the words 'I love you, Gellert.' *cue giggles here*

Dumbledore is such an affectionate person. And the two of them were really close anyway. Rita would be stoned to death to attach improper connotations to the most revered Headmaster of Hogwarts.

And if Dumbledore would be interviewed from his portrait...

'Oh yes, I loved him.' It is understandable for two minds like that to adore each other. What abysmally uncouth person would proceed to ask him, 'Did you desire him?'

I don't explore such subjects. And I don't think young Albus did, either. If it is still a little taboo for us in the here and now, how much more in the Wizarding world? It's too... indecent, that I think even though it crossed his mind, he brushed it aside every time. And they were too busy plotting the GG and fantasizing about the Hallows anyway, remember?

I don't want to see a new category exclusively for Grindelwald and Dumbledore. In my opinion, there's not enough romance there *shudder* for it to be integral to a fic. A sidelight, maybe, yes. And even then the romance can only be hinted at. And it will be that same banter one will not read anything into if JKR hadn't revealed to us her little juicy secret.




Beth: I find it slightly rude that you put *shudder* regarding the GG/DD category. No points were docked but no points were added for this otherwise insightful post.