Page 14 of 15 FirstFirst ... 412131415 LastLast
Results 131 to 140 of 150

Thread: Discussions - Part One

  1. #131
    MorganRay
    Guest

    don't misrepresent

    I agree with the Blaise interpretation. I always thought of him as Arabic, but I can see where Italian comes from, too. I'm trying to pry into Blaise more for an upcoming fic, and I think people tend to place him in the typical Slytherin category. (I will restrain myself from rambling on the common stereotyping of houses.) Blaise is NOT in with Umbridge in OotP, and he doesn't really seem to like his mum a lot. He's not Draco's 'groupie' either, and I appriciate it when people make him interesting because he can got a lot of different ways.

    Fleur also gets pegged with 'I'm beautiful but brainless.' She was the ONLY woman in the Tri-wizard tournament, people. If Bill likes her, I think that we, as readers, should see that Jo has put a mark of approvement on her, too, in some way. Her conduct in 'Lament of the Pheonix' definately shows she IS NOT the dumb blonde of the series. People typically tend to sympathize more with Hermione and Ginny, so this is why I feel Fleur is given an unfair representation in most stories.

    I honestly found Tonks REALLY misrepresented, but fics on her are becoming a lot better. The girl has gut and is not just clumsy and wild. She's not dumb, either, and I don't like it when people make her too girly just because she's now in love with Remus. She tends to take the portrayal of either being really tom-boyish and clumsy or really weepy and weak.

    Bella Black, and for that matter, Narcissa Black, tend to get misrepresented, too. Narcissa IS vain, but we saw she has that side that DOES care about Draco. People can forget this in a fic, and she can come across as having shallow motives. Also, Bella is typically cast as the cold killer, and although we know she is slightly psycotic, we also know she has some affection for her sister and her family. How far that extends, we don't know, but some deeper thoughts would be appriciated.

  2. #132
    Schmerg_The_Impaler
    Guest
    Which characters do you find unfairly or improperly characterised by fandom as a whole?
    Draco Malfoy, definitely, has been interpreted in the strangest of ways. I see him as being more sensitive than Lucius, but he's not exactly the poetry-writing, ballad-singing type. Especially in romance, where people seem to have gotten it into their heads that he is a lovely and romantic boyfriend.
    But one character who has really gotten the short end of the stick is Harry himself. He's always shown as too serious and moody, which I think is something he's sort of outgrown anyway. But even when he WAS being all angsty in canon, in OotP, he's always had quite a present dry sense of humour. In fact, some of the funniest things he's said were when he was in a horrible mood. Harry can be a bit of a loveable loser sometimes, actually, which provides nice contrast to his extreme bravery that he taps into to protect the people and ideas he feels strongly about. He's a deeply interesting and likeable character, and fanfiction just doesn't do him justice.

    which authors write 'versions' of minor characters that you find original yet accurate, based on canon? Well, I don't remember the author's name or the story, but I read an extremely interesting Marauder-era fanfiction (all right, so James Potter isn't 'minor,' but who cares?) in which James was deeply religious and also very musical, and Lily finds this out when she stayed at his house. It was an interesting portrayal of him, because he was still James, he was funny and athletic and confident, but he had this softer side that was very appealing and I really liked it.

    What minor characters do you write, and how do you make them your own? I have a thing for Theodore Nott, really. JK Rowling posted a marvellous description of Theo on her website about how he was a clever loner who didn't feel the need to join gangs, including Malfoy's. He's physically unattractive, the son of a death eater, pure-blooded, more intelligent than Draco, and he can see thestrals. His mother is dead. This alone makes for a compelling character, but I've expanded him to be a bit of a cynic and definitely a unique boy, and I love him very much-- he's Nott your typical Slytherin(hahah, puns) in some ways-- he had no blood prejudice and doesn't support Voldemort or Malfoy, despite his family's beliefs-- but he has all of the traits that make a Slytherin an example of their house. He's cunning, resourceful, sarcastic, sneaky, a bit self-centered, and he can sneer and looks good in green. Oh, yes... and did I mention that I ship myself with him? On the Hufflepuff blur drabbles, the ship is called Schmott.

  3. #133
    capella_black
    Guest

    Re: September Discussion: Not The Usual Characterisation

    Which characters do you find unfairly or improperly characterised by fandom as a whole? Do you abide by the fandoms characterisation of these minor character, or do you work straight from the source?

    I have to agree that Lily gets a pretty raw deal. I can't stand when she's just extremely nice to everyone except James, and her whole life consists of getting mad at James and turning him down, or secretly liking him and playing hard to get. And her faithful sidekick is Alice Something, and they giggle together about how hot Frank Longbottom is. Urgh.

    So in my version (Lily Evans and the Golden Lyre), I give Lily a Harry-like mystery/adventure to pursue, relegate James to the back burner for the time being, and give her another guy to keep her busy until 7th year. I like how Jo gives all her major characters another romantic interest before pairing them with their "soul mate" (ie: Cho, Lavender, Krum, and all Ginny's boys), so I do the same for Lily. Of course James is still very much around (he's in her year and in her house and hard to avoid; plus I love writing the Marauders) but he's far from the most important thing in her life. I guess it helps that I'm not trying to write a Lily/James or Lily/OC story, but trying to follow her through a school year like the books follow Harry...

    cb

  4. #134
    GringottsVault711
    Guest

    November Discussion - IC versus OOC

    In character versus out of character -- how do you tell the difference?

    At first, it seems obvious. Harry strolling down Knockturn Alley in a full-dragon-hide three piece suit to discuss business enterprises with Draco Malfoy is probably 'out-of-character', whereas Harry facing Voldemort to save the wizarding world and avenge the deaths of his loved ones is more 'in-character'.

    The problem is with the fact that in fan-fiction we try to take our characters in new directions to places we haven't seen in the books. In fact, we're forced to. Because if you write Harry Potter doing things he's done in the books, saying things he's said in the books and behaving the way he behaves in the books, then you're character is nothing more than a shadow; he does not grow or develop with your plot, he does not learn and change with the flow of time and events and people in your story.

    On the other end of the spectrum, sometimes you need a character to do or say something they probably wouldn't in the books [see all Hermione/Snape and Draco/Hermione stories for details ] -- and you have to effectively reveal the right parts of their existing character and develop them so as to justify the actions as you have written them.

    So, with that said, the topic is keeping characters in-character, without simply echoing what's written in the books, as well as using characterisation to justify the reactions of the characters as you write them. How do you do it -- do you play it safe, or take risks? How do you approach the process -- do you stop and ask yourself with each line of dialogue, or with each action -- is this something this character can say/do believably? And how do you handle the task of knowing you're character has to do something 'uncharacteristic'? How do you get what would be OOC to seem IC?

    Share your thoughts [and experiences] in writing as you approach the question of: is it in-character, or out-of-character?

  5. #135
    atkarid
    Guest
    I was a bit confused when I read the first couple sentences, but know it makes more sense...

    I think there is a range around the IC traits. OOcness is out of that range. I have no idea how to explain it, but IC can be all the traits that are associated with the traits we see the characters have, and OOCness is just way off.

    Or some people believe anything is possible as long as you have a reason on why the character is doing this based on IC traits.

    I try to explore different areas of a character by taking usually unseen areas of them (like Molly breaking down at the thought of her loved ones killed) and exaggerating it (a really depressed Molly). It seems way out of character since she's the warm, caring mother, but it's still a bit in character since she can be really sad when she sees her loved ones in danger (OOTP- Boggart). And then you just modify the situation so your character is IC.

    Sorry if that sounded really confusing. I'm just finding it a bit hard to explain...

    EDIT: Kehribar, you explain it so much better than I do.

  6. #136
    Fifth Year Gryffindor
    I See Dead People... In Mirrors

    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    235
    I think being a good writer in terms of characterization depends upon how well a reader we are. After all, we all are writing fan-fiction, using characters that do not belong to us, but we somehow manage - in or out of character. However, keeping the canon in line is dependent upon how well we know them. I'm sure we all can describe given canon characters with more-or-less similar words: I don't think a good HP reader will think of Sirius as an introverted, shy kind of guy, or Herminone as an athletic and not-a-care-in-the-world type of girl. Nevertheless, we have this tendency to take them out of their original characters created by JKR in order to fit them into our plot.

    I personally think that if one is a really good, careful reader, the plot ideas will already form in accordance with the original characters; otherwise we create a wonderful plot and then try to fit the characters into it. This, I think, is the main thing that pushes us towards OOC.

    This, of course, doesn't mean we can - or we must - always keep strictly in character. Sometimes, a character, even if you've kept them in line to a certain degree, must do something that JKR wouldn't have them do because they're just not poeple like that. At this point, I believe we can still keep the canon in character: this is bound to a good justification. Well, people change, don't they? But why? This is important. We all have ups and downs, but something really traumatic must happen for Hermione to hate books (as traumatic as the experience Ginny has with diaries).

    I try to explore different areas of a character by taking usually unseen areas of them (like Molly breaking down at the thought of her loved ones killed) and exaggerating it (a really depressed Molly).
    I think I understand what you're trying to say, and I really am with you about this, atkarid. I think a perfect example for this, by JKR in person, is Tonks. In OotP we meet her for the first time. All through the book, even after Sirius' death, she's a cheerful, lively, colourful person. But in HBP, we also see how deeply falling in love effects her: she looses all her liveliness, almost her will to live. We see a completely different side of her. So that means, Tonks has the potential to be increadibly gloomy despite her lively and cheerful self. The key word is potential. JKR gives us her characters' limits. As readers, we must explore and study those limits well, and as writers, we must be able to respect those limits. Though I belive we have the right to push those limits to a certain degree - again, if I understood atkarid correctly, there's a range, which we have the right to strecth a bit as writers, and out of that range is OOC.
    The Run of the Mill

    The phenomenal banner is by MissBean

  7. #137
    Seventh Year Ravenclaw
    Attending a Deathday Party
    Gmariam's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Hogwarts Preschool
    Posts
    543
    Quote Originally Posted by kehribar
    I personally think that if one is a really good, careful reader, the plot ideas will already form in accordance with the original characters; otherwise we create a wonderful plot and then try to fit the characters into it. This, I think, is the main thing that pushes us towards OOC.
    I think this is a great statement! Rather than taking the characters and placing them in a plot, many writers take a plot and fill it with characters. Forcing characters into a situation that wasn't designed for them results in OOC, whereas crafting the story around the characters will be a lot smoother for everyone - characters, readers, and the writer.

    One thing I think is very interesting about IC/OOC is that authors and readers all have their own perceptions of what exactly makes a character OOC. An author may write a canon character doing something that seems perfectly plausible for them, whereas a reader cannot wrap their wildest imagination around it. I think this happens more with the canon characters whom we don't know as well. I am struggling with this when it comes to Snape right now. Despite playing a fairly prominent role in six books, he is still quite the enigmatic potions master. What I see as IC for Snape may be totally different for someone else, particularly when it comes to Snape's past, and the end of Book Six. It's a fine line to walk.

    Another example I have seen recently is Harry himself. A lot of stories have Harry turning away from his friends after the Final Battle, traumatized and scarred by it. This is also where slut!Harry makes an appearance, a character I find most . . . strange. While we have some idea how Harry might react to whatever happens in his final confrontation with Voldemor based on his past reactions to traumatic events, I personally don't see Harry turning away from his loved ones; Dumbledore has lectured him too many times on the power of love, and I think Harry will realize he needs his friends. I think he has grown since the angsty!Harry of Book Five and demonstrated a more mature Harry in Book Six. I certainly don't see him picking up girls in bars to get over it! But that's just me, and I'm no psychologist. It seems OOC to me, for the reasons above, even when it's well done and emotionally gripping. Yet to others it may seem perfectly IC because Harry does have a bit of a hero complex, and does want to protect his loved ones - look at him breaking up with Ginny at the end of Book Six - and did pull away in Book Five. So again - a fine line to walk, this post-battle Harry. Though not as much as Snape.

    I think characterizaion is quite often a matter of subjective opinion. The only real authority on character is JKR herself - and we can only hope to emulate her vision of her characters as best we can.
    ~Gina

  8. #138
    Fifth Year Gryffindor
    I See Dead People... In Mirrors

    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    235
    Quote Originally Posted by Gmariam
    One thing I think is very interesting about IC/OOC is that authors and readers all have their own perceptions of what exactly makes a character OOC. An author may write a canon character doing something that seems perfectly plausible for them, whereas a reader cannot wrap their wildest imagination around it. I think this happens more with the canon characters whom we don't know as well.
    I think you thouch upon a very important aspect of characterization with this. As I've said earlier, I think the canon characters have limits set by JKR which we have the right to stretch a bit. This flexibility is the point where you point out the relative perception of the writer and reader. I personally don't think that we need to take too much trouble trying to fit into the strictly drawn lines of a character: hey, we are the writers, why not stretch as far as we can? Once we stretch a little too much and the flexible range around the canons is worn through, well.. that's where we cross the line. From then on, it's all OOC.
    (Sorry if that's a bit vague.)

    Again, the point Gmariam touches upon by pointing out unknown canons is a good one. I personally have only one fiction on MNFF now, and half of it deals with Andromeda. Now, we know very little about her, but that's partly why I have so much fun writing about her. You see, as soon as we abide by the little known facts about her, we can have hundreds of different Andromedas. I like to think that Tonks is more like her father in character than her mother, but touching upon little points in between dialogues that will show a mother-and-daughter resemblence is really fun. Likewise, quite a bit of different Andromedas can be created. Are they all out of character? I do not think so. After all, there's little canonical "character" for her, so who says she's OOC if I like to think of her as a Metamorphmagus like her daughter, unless JKR says that she is not? (she doesn't, does she? I'm not sure about this example, but you get the point )

    But I love this flexibility, a lot. If we had increadibly stricted canon characters, there'd be no fun writing or reading fanfiction. We couldn't have the characters do all kinds of imaginable things we come up with. If not on the characters, where would the writer reflect his/her personal style that makes each and every one of us unique? I don't think simply coming up with different plots would make reading fanfiction enjoyable at all - what's the point in reading different plots if we all would certainly know how would the character act?
    The Run of the Mill

    The phenomenal banner is by MissBean

  9. #139
    kumydabookworm
    Guest
    Hmm. Now we're starting to talk about MINOR canon characters, and their characterization. As others (ahem, Kehribar) have said, characterization of these people is remarkably more flexibly than canon characters that we see in the books on a regular basis.

    Now being the Gryff that I am -hugs all Gryffindor related tihngs- I'm going to be brave and tackle the more complex subject - the MAJOR canon characters.

    You see...a majority of fanfiction does indeed focus on MAJOR characters. I know, in one of my personal stories, that Draco could be considered OOC. A reviewer (my HoH, Beth darling!!! ) mentioned this, but in the next sentence said something along the lines of "It's surprising how war can change people."

    So...to me, OOC-ness is something the author brings upon him or herself. Any OOCness (that isn't ABSOLUTELY ridiculous i.e. Draco wearing a pink skirt etc.) can be made believeable - albeit in a convoluted manner - by extenuating circumstances written into the fanfiction by an author.

    For example, if you want to write about a Draco who liked the Weasleys, you'd simply have to have his character undergo a series of major life-changing events. For example, his own father could try to kill him for the Dark Lord, and a Weasley could pick him up. That may cause him to hate his father, but still hate the Weasleys for seeing him while vulnerable.

    Then, after he insulted them (as he is apt to do, being Draco Malfoy), they would react with strength rather than sympathy. This could cause the Slytherin part of his mind (which respects shows of power) to respect them.

    And thereby, respect - through other minor events - could lead to friendship and so forth.

    So OOCness is generally something that can be avoided entirely, provided that the author writes/sets up his or her plot in the right way.

    Those are my thoughts on characterization of canon characters.

    Love,
    Kumy

  10. #140
    Banannarama
    Guest
    I think it all comes down to this: Don't try too hard.

    If you try to make Ron IC by having him say hilarious comments all the time, all of a sudden you have someone who's like a clown with a tad more fashion sense. Try to make an IC Tonks by having your "Tonks" character be clumsy doesn't make her any more Tonks-ish than if you'd simply said that she wore pink hair all the time.

    But then again, sometimes, in new situations, all we have to go on are traits like these. That's where it gets hard. Like several people have said before me, you have to consider events that happen in your story to characterize the character. But though this gives you large, if any, boundaries, you can't make ANYTHING happen. Even if you have the power to create what happens next, you can't erase what has already happened. For example, having Snape reconcile and become "bosom friends" with Lupin might happen, but it also might be considered very OOC considering their past together. The same goes for having Draco and Harry become friends.

    If you try too hard to make a situation where these "impossible triangles" (purely opinion, please don't take offense) happen, often times you'll end up with a plot that's utterly ludicrous.

    So what I'm trying to say is... if you're trying to make a character have a certain reaction to a certain situation, and it's not happening easily enough for you (aka you have to try too hard), avoid it rather than ending up with major OOC issues.

    If you avoid trying too hard... I think that'll eliminate one of the major causes of OOC-ness.

    ~Anna

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •