Severus Snape - Part II

[cmwinters]

I've got one of Snape's ancestors snapping at him trying to get his attention when he's misbehaving, with "SEVERUS TOBIAS SNAPE!"

You know, how your mom used to yell at you? Not so much with the extra characterisation there though.

EquinoxChick, is Snape's absence possibly mentioned in the beginning of OotP? A friend of mine thinks it was, but I distinctly remember reading it "real time", as it were.

What really gets my goat is that I know I saw it on the Lexicon *too*, and I can't find it there either. *flail*

[Equinox Chick]

Hmmm, the Lexicon ... well, they've not updated the date of the werewolf attack/prank have they ... or the Marauders and Snape's year of birth /sniping at Lexicon.

Okay , opening feast in OOTP. Snape isn't mentioned as being at the feast, but his absence isn't noted either - whereas Hagrid's is.
The next day Ron moans that they have Double Potions so he's there on the second day at least.


Carole

[leahsm2]

Hmmm, the Lexicon ... well, they've not updated the date of the werewolf attack/prank have they ... or the Marauders and Snape's year of birth /sniping at Lexicon.

Snape's birthdate was revised after the publication of DH. I think they all were weren't they, because I thought 1959 made more sense but she chose 1960 and it is reflected at least I'm sure for Snape, but I didn't check out the others.

[Black-Sand]

G'day

Hopefully this isn't confusing but...

What would Snape do if the Order had to look after his ex-fiancée without her seeing them and he found out she was in a serious relationship with someone? It's fourteen years after she left him for being a Death Eater.

Do you think he will stop being one of the members following her? Or do you think he'll do something else?

Thanks

...xXxLove SandyxXx...

[mudbloodproud]

Before I attempt to answer your questions, Sandy, let me say that this story would have to have an AU warning or better yet, be in the AU category.

My reasoning behind that is Snape never would have loved anyone after Lily. She was his one true love and in canon, there could be no other.

Now, assuming the AU aspect of him loving another, but keeping him as true to canon as possible, let me see...

What would Snape do if the Order had to look after his ex-fiancée without her seeing them and he found out she was in a serious relationship with someone? It's fourteen years after she left him for being a Death Eater.

This is tricky. The question would be does he still love her? If he could have her back, would he want her?

Let's assume he still loves her. I cannot see Snape being happy about her seeing someone else. Think Lily/James. One thing can be said for Snape, when he loved someone, he loved them forever. Obsessive some might say, but if he loved her, and was hurt by her leaving him, then I don't think he would take too kindly to someone else being with her.

Do you think he will stop being one of the members following her? Or do you think he'll do something else?

Again, does he still love her? He hated James and though he hated Harry, he still went to great lengths to protect him because of Lily. I think he would continue to watch over her, to protect her. I doubt he would lift a finger to help the man she is seeing, but he would save her.

Hope this helps.

[Black-Sand]

G'day

Thanks, Tezza. Of course it's AU and yeah he still loves her. It's Severus Snape after all. He doesn't fall lightly. Your answers helped a lot. Thanks again.

...xXxLove SandyxXx...

[Roonil_Wazlib125]

Er...hello everyone.

I used to really hate Snape. I hated him in SS, CoS, PoA, GoF, OOTP, and HBP, and there were several good reasons--the way he treated his students, the way he treated the "good guys" (Sirius, Remus, James), the way he treated Harry during his Occlumency (sp?) lessons, and how he murdered Dumbledore. I hated him with a passion until...

I read DH. Well, really, until I read "The Prince's Tale". His life was really horrible, even though most of the horrible factors were self-inflicted, and he lost his one true love. He had gone through more than most people, even Harry and Neville!

And speaking of Neville, I feel this is one of the reasons why he treated him so badly. He probably knew that Neville had had a tough childhood--his parents were crazy and didn't remember him, he had to live with a strict grandmother, and he was a little awkward. This might've reminded Snape of himself.

Just think about the comparisons: Neville's parents are insane and don't remember him; Snape's parents never really loved him; Neville grew up without much love; Snape grew up without much love; Neville stuck out and was made fun of; Snape stuck out and was made fun of. See?

I'm sure Snape hated seeing how pitiful he must have seemed at school, so he took out his anger on the boy who embodied all of his traits. I think he was sort of trying to teach Neville a lesson in a convoluted sort of way--he was trying to say, "Toughen up or else you'll end up like me!" Unfortunately, Snape isn't very good with emotional lessons. So...yeah.

I think Snape helped Neville, though. By scaring him out of his wits, he boosted his confidence. An example is the boggart--had Snape not been so mean, Neville never would've battled the boggart and felt confident.

Snape is a very complicated character, obviously. Most people hate him and insist that his intentions were evil. But I think he was just a troubled soul, a scared little boy trying to carry the burden of being an adult before he had even been a kid. He never really had fun, he never got to relax and feel good about himself, and he never got to grow up like a normal kid. Adulthood was foisted upon him when he was young; he had to care for himself, because his parents sure as hell weren't going to. And I think some people disregard this, even though this is crucial to Snape's character/personality.

People also say that he needed Lily too much, but when you're a (possibly abused,) unloved child, you kind of have a reason to need so much. You don't have any love, so you want as much as you possibly can. You've been starved of a neccessary gift and therefore you crave it more than anyone else. Unfortunately, Lily did not see that.

No, it wasn't her obligation to fix him. No, it wasn't her obligation to help him. But is it our obligation to do anything? Can't we do something purely because we want to? Has anyone thought that Lily wanted to fix him, but failed?

People think that Lily wasn't really trying, but she obviously was. To put up with such an awkward kid for so long would mean you truly cared for them and wanted to help them. Yet most people think Lily simply needed a refuge, a person she could confide in and then toss away when he/she wasn't needed. I think she really wanted a friend, but not just because of Petunia--because every little kid wants a friend.

I could continue, but I won't. Really, I think Snape deserves some slack. Sure, he did some bad things in life, but don't we all? It can range from racism to murder to cursing someone off, but the fact is: we most certainly make mistakes and do bad things. And Snape is a clear example of that.

Roonil_Wazlib125 aka Annmarie pooooff

Bine: 1 point from Ravenclaw. Please read the rules on changing font/size/colour just because.

[Karaley Dargen]

And speaking of Neville, I feel this is one of the reasons why he treated him so badly. He probably knew that Neville had had a tough childhood--his parents were crazy and didn't remember him, he had to live with a strict grandmother, and he was a little awkward. This might've reminded Snape of himself.

Actually, I disagree here. I don't think Snape saw that in Neville; he does not seem to be the kind of person who just helps others because he's nice like that. He helped Harry because he was Lily's son, but what reason would he have to help Neville? In some ways, his childhood probably was more similar to Harry's than to Neville's.

I have another theory on that matter, and I have recently discovered that I am not the only one with that opinion. Terri has a Oneshot up (I hope it's ok that I link this here, Terri?) that deals with exactly that question, and it comes to the same conclusion that I always come to:

[Don't read if you're scared of spoilers]



There were two boys, two families who could have been attacked that night - the Potters or the Longbottoms. Had it been the Longbottoms, had Neville died or been scarred, then Lily would still be alive, and even if he would never have had the chance to talk to her again, he would still have known that she was there to do good in the world. So Neville in fact is the constant reminder that it was, in the end, as a final factor, just bad luck that killed Lily.

[hestiajones]

Snape is a very complicated character, obviously. Most people hate him and insist that his intentions were evil. But I think he was just a troubled soul, a scared little boy trying to carry the burden of being an adult before he had even been a kid. He never really had fun, he never got to relax and feel good about himself, and he never got to grow up like a normal kid. Adulthood was foisted upon him when he was young; he had to care for himself, because his parents sure as hell weren't going to. And I think some people disregard this, even though this is crucial to Snape's character/personality.

...
People think that Lily wasn't really trying, but she obviously was. To put up with such an awkward kid for so long would mean you truly cared for them and wanted to help them. Yet most people think Lily simply needed a refuge, a person she could confide in and then toss away when he/she wasn't needed. I think she really wanted a friend, but not just because of Petunia--because every little kid wants a friend.

I agree with everything you said here, AnnMarie, but when it comes to Snape and Neville, I sort of agree with Kara. I don't think Snape was trying to boost Neville's confidence or anything. In any case, I certainly do not see him identifying with Neville because Snape must have been a stellar student (at least, in Potions), but Neville was dreadfully poor there, and average in others, except Herbology. I don't see Severus seeing Neville as someone who "embodied all of his traits."

I always thought Snape liked to bully Gryffindors in general, a house he really detested. But in case of Neville (and I have forgotten who wrote that fic), it may have been possible that he hated the fact it was not this boy, but the Potter's, who Voldemort chose.

[Roonil_Wazlib125]

Originally posted by [B[hestiajones[/B]
I agree with everything you said here, Annmarie, but when it comes to Snape and Neville, I sort of agree with Kara. I don't think Snape was trying to boost Neville's confidence or anything. In any case, I certainly do not see him identifying with Neville because Snape must have been a stellar student (at least, in Potions), but Neville was dreadfully poor there, and average in others, except Herbology. I don't see Severus seeing Neville as someone who "embodied all of his traits."

I always thought Snape liked to bully Gryffindors in general, a house he really detested. But in case of Neville (and I have forgotten who wrote that fic), it may have been possible that he hated the fact it was not this boy, but the Potter's, who Voldemort chose.

Originally posted by Karaley Dargen
Actually, I disagree here. I don't think Snape saw that in Neville; he does not seem to be the kind of person who just helps others because he's nice like that. He helped Harry because he was Lily's son, but what reason would he have to help Neville? In some ways, his childhood probably was more similar to Harry's than to Neville's.

I have another theory on that matter, and I have recently discovered that I am not the only one with that opinion. Terri has a Oneshot up (I hope it's ok that I link this here, Terri?) that deals with exactly that question, and it comes to the same conclusion that I always come to:

[Don't read if you're scared of spoilers]



There were two boys, two families who could have been attacked that night - the Potters or the Longbottoms. Had it been the Longbottoms, had Neville died or been scarred, then Lily would still be alive, and even if he would never have had the chance to talk to her again, he would still have known that she was there to do good in the world. So Neville in fact is the constant reminder that it was, in the end, as a final factor, just bad luck that killed Lily.

Hmm...this is true. I suppose Neville would stand as a reminder of what could have been. *shrugs* It was really a theory, but now I see evidence that it was probably wrong.

Anyways, I think that the theory of him being angry at Neville because he wasn't a complete orphan fuels several people's hatred of Snape. I really think that this is wrong, because Snape embodies all kinds of human flaws--greed, pride, envy, anger, bitterness. You can't say that we don't all have these flaws. You can't say that you've never poked fun at anyone or coveted something that a person has or been angry/bitter. Really, we would probably all relate to Snape in some aspect, whether it be in we're too proud or too greedy. Either way, we're all Snape-like in some way.

This might be another reason why people don't like him. They don't like thinking about their flaws. They'd rather be like Harry, the brave hero of the story. Or Ginny Weasley, the fiery, independent, beautiful, confident, annoyingly-amazing girl. They don't want to be the greasy-haired, forever-hated Potions teacher. The problem? We're all like him.

Roonil_Wazlib125 aka Annmarie

Bine: 1 point from Ravenclaw