Page 14 of 16 FirstFirst ... 41213141516 LastLast
Results 131 to 140 of 151

Thread: Severus Snape - Part II

  1. #131
    Wizengamot Hufflepuff
    Kill the Spare
    Equinox Chick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    using rare and complicated words
    Posts
    2,978
    If her Muggle husband "didn't like anything much", I still don't know why she would marry him, but a physical attraction could have been the cause, and maybe even love potion...(?).
    I think your point about it being akin to Merope Gaunt is interesting, but Tom Riddle snr was an extremely good-looking man. I'm being shallow here, but Tobias Snape does not appear to be good-looking. Severus Snape resembled him (Ha, I am mean) and Snape is never described as good looking. My theory about Eileen and Tobias, is that she got pregnant so they had to marry.

    Regarding Snape joining the Order. JKR has said that he did only join because of Lily. She said that if he hadn't been in love with her then he would have never turned away from the Dark Arts. I do like Vorona's theory about him allying himself with Dumbledore out of self-interest though. He's a survivor above all.

    Whilst I think Snape could well have been Sorted into Gryffindor, he clearly wanted Slytherin - he said that on the train. The Hat takes your choices into account - we know that. Why would it place him elsewhere. And we all know that not all Slyths are bad...

    ~Carole~
    I'm a BARMAID. I write. I drabble. I duel. I poet. I'm a BADGER!!!

    Banner by minnabird

  2. #132
    Fifth Year Gryffindor
    I See Dead People... In Mirrors
    lucca4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    With Teddy <3
    Posts
    236
    Quote Originally Posted by Gmariam
    And I wonder how different Snape would have turned out if he had been Sorted into Gryffindor with Lily. He was obviously a brave man to do what he did. I wonder if he would have still turned to the Dark Arts?
    Snape was absorbed by the Dark Arts--I think Remus comments about that in OotP. Dark Arts fascinated him; it was part of his personality, and I doubt that being in a different House would change that. I don't think he was a very brave man before Lily's death, though. The death of a loved one changed him, gave him a purpose in life to achieve. If she never died, I doubt he would have been capable of such bravery. He never would have been Sorted in Gryffindor unless he was Sorted later in life, simply because his drive to be brave was the result of his loss, not ingrained in his personality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vorona
    I personally think it's more in character that he would have been seriously considering leaving the Death Eaters as soon as he learned how Voldemort *actually* treated them (perhaps as soon as getting the Dark Mark and learning that it was, essentially, a leash), and as a Slytherin, he probably would have known that he could manipulate Dumbledore through guilt to give him protection in exchange for service.
    Well, I don't think it was Voldemort's cruelty that would have repelled him: Snape wasn't the nicest person himself. I do think he truly believed in what Voldemort was preaching, because if he even doubted it a little, it would have been enough to turn him to Lily's side of the war. Watching the other Death Eaters suffer as a result of their "disloyalty" probably didn't phase him--he most likely agreed with them being punished.
    However, what I think you're hinting at is that he didn't like to be controlled. I do agree with this. Voldemort was like a dictator, and the Death Eaters were really only his subjects. I think he agreed with Voldemort's doctrines and therefore would have helped him carry it out, but I do imagine that constantly being "used" would have undermined Snape's pride.
    That being said, I still don't think he would have left the Death Eaters if Lily hadn't died, no matter how much it hurt his ego.


    xx Ariana xx

    Thank you to Hokey for the beautiful banner. And thank you to everyone who nominated and judged --I'm so grateful to you <3.

  3. #133
    Seventh Year Gryffindor
    Being Chased by Singing Dwarves with Valentines
    Maple_and_PheonixFeather's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Behind my piano
    Posts
    701
    Here's a thought...
    Did he perhaps get pressured into being a Death Eater by his so called "friends" we see in his memories of Lily?

    HUGE EPIPHONY!!!

    Similarities between Snape and Tom Riddle
    -half-bloods
    -Muggle fathers who leave/abuse/hate wives and magic
    -extremely smart, cunning, and deceptive

    Maybe Snape connected with Voldemort because of it, and so joined his ranks?
    GRYFFINDOR PRIDE!
    Avvie by me, banner by TM_Wandstick.
    It matters not what one is born, but what they become.Don't let your praying knees get lazy, and love like crazy!

  4. #134
    Vorona
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by lucca4


    Well, I don't think it was Voldemort's cruelty that would have repelled him: Snape wasn't the nicest person himself. I do think he truly believed in what Voldemort was preaching, because if he even doubted it a little, it would have been enough to turn him to Lily's side of the war. Watching the other Death Eaters suffer as a result of their "disloyalty" probably didn't phase him--he most likely agreed with them being punished.
    However, what I think you're hinting at is that he didn't like to be controlled. I do agree with this. Voldemort was like a dictator, and the Death Eaters were really only his subjects. I think he agreed with Voldemort's doctrines and therefore would have helped him carry it out, but I do imagine that constantly being "used" would have undermined Snape's pride.
    That being said, I still don't think he would have left the Death Eaters if Lily hadn't died, no matter how much it hurt his ego.
    Obviously you're right: that's how canon played out. But yes, my main contention is that, from a Slytherin point of view, Snape doesn't get anything out of being a Death Eater, and he's not really stupid enough not to see that. That's my main thought.

    Obviously, though, it doesn't matter. We don't really know when he joined, and it's possible that he *was* thinking about leaving (but perhaps was too cowardly? I could see that), but Lily was the straw, so to speak, that got him to act.

    The main thing I see is that he didn't really get anything out of it. None of the Death Eaters really did. All Voldemort really offered was pain and humiliation. I can see Snape being lured by the possibility of learning more Dark Arts, but I doubt he did (i.e. I doubt he ever actually learned any -- Voldemort wasn't exactly big on sharing). The Death Eaters were more concerned with their anti-Muggle agenda. I don't think that was likely a big deal for Snape, who was half-blood. That ideology put him as an inferior to everyone else in the group, so it's hardly a benefit to him. Some people might have other reasons (Draco trying to live up to his family's tradition, for example), but I don't see any reason other than interest in the Dark Arts and potential dark allies as a reason for Snape to join -- and he's intelligent enough to have eventually seen he wasn't actually going to get either of those.

    But yeah, I wasn't thinking that he had some kind of moral objection to cruelty; I think he just didn't want to be the recipient of the cruelty. He got enough of that with Potter and gang. I think once he found out their biggest mission was based on blood-status, he would have realized that there was nothing for him there, being a half-blood. He found a way to get status, by becoming a spy, but before that . . . ?

    So, I can see him realizing that he made a big mistake, but not able to get himself out due to cowardice, and *then* Lily being threatened causing him to act. That makes sense to me. There might have even been some depression in there -- feeling that there was something so wrong with him that no one ever *could* treat him decently (after all, even Lily left him, and even Dumbledore chose James & gang over him), but I think that's probably too maudlin. I just don't think he stayed because he thought the Death Eaters were the best thing in the world. I think he would have been disillusioned pretty quickly after joining.

  5. #135
    Wizengamot Hufflepuff
    Kill the Spare
    Equinox Chick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    using rare and complicated words
    Posts
    2,978
    Quote Originally Posted by Vorona
    But yes, my main contention is that, from a Slytherin point of view, Snape doesn't get anything out of being a Death Eater, and he's not really stupid enough not to see that. That's my main thought.
    Hmm, well, he was a half-blood. He hated Muggles and Muggleborns (conveniently forgetting that Lily was a Muggleborn) and he was attracted to the Dark Arts. I think his motivation for joining Voldemort was that he was attracted by Voldemort's words and theories. Plus, as a half-blood, being an active Death Eater is the only way he can climb in that regime. I think he gets rather a lot out of being a Death Eater - far more than if Voldemort had won and he hadn't been a DE. When Voldy is defeated the first time, he avoids prison and becomes a professor, but if Voldy had been successful in killing Harry, then Snape was clever enough to cling to his robe tails and become very influential.

    I think the other DE's did very well out of Voldy ... as long as they were winning. It was when things went against him that he turned nasty, but whilst he was ascending they lapped it up. Plus none of them knew about the Horcruxes, so probably thought that once he died they'd be the next in charge.

    ~Carole~
    I'm a BARMAID. I write. I drabble. I duel. I poet. I'm a BADGER!!!

    Banner by minnabird

  6. #136
    Wizengamot Ravenclaw
    You idiot! Always playing the Hero!
    OliveOil_Med's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    My fanfiction notebook broke!
    Posts
    1,547
    My own theory of why Snape chose to join the Death Eaters had more to do with the search of power. Throughout Snape's life, he must have felt a very strong feeling of powerlessness: first from growing up with his father, then being tormented by the Maurauders, and then eventually by Lily refusing to forgive him. Then come along all these Death Eater friends, with potentially some strong influence from Lucius Malfoy as well, and they all rpomised to give him that very thing: Power. The Death Eaters were set to taker over the world, with Voldemort as their leader, and would become the new class of power.

    I feel like that is what lured Snape more than anything else.

    And Severus was able to join up with them simply because he fit into the mold. He was not a pureblood, but he was a Slytherin. And by taking the nickname, the Halfblood Prince, this show he had a strong attachment to his wizarding roots, more so than his Muggle ones, and showed he would be loyal to Voldemort's cause.

    Also, it could be possible that Voldemort himself saw Snape's desire for power and chose to exploit that. We know from the books that Voldemort lacked no skills for manipiulation. He saw Snape as a highly powerful wizard with strong skills in potions and the Dark Arts, and knew Snape would be useful to him.

    Brand New Story!

    Banner by lullaby_BANG. Completely awesome avi came from here!

    My brand new trailer for Snape Didn't Die by thegirllikeme to serve as a constant source of inspiration whilst I write!

  7. #137
    Virgil
    Guest
    But still -- slave to a capricious and tormenting ruler? You say he (and other Death Eaters) get a lot out of this -- what exactly do they get? I know what they wanted to get, and I can understand how many of them would have clung to that hope, but I don't see any indication that Voldemort would have actually let them have any of it, and I think the intelligent members would have seen that.
    I think that wizards chose to join the ranks of the Death Eaters for several different reasons. Some, like the Lestranges, actually agreed with Voldemort's pureblood supremacist ideals. Others, like Peter Pettigrew, were looking for a sense of security - this is something that is seen a lot in the real world, especially in street gangs and the like. Snape is a bit more of a mystery, but I think that he didn't feel as though he had a choice. Perhaps everyone just expected him to become a Death Eater because of the way he looked and acted, and because he was in Slytherin. Those kinds of expectations, especially for a young person, will more often than not come true. It's also possible that Snape thought Voldemort would come out on top, and initially thought to align himself with the supposedly "winning" side, just because it seemed like the logical thing to do at the time. He probably didn't realise how truly evil Voldemort was - expecting him to spare a Muggle-born woman's life is quite an optimistic take on the Dark Lord's character.

    Peace,
    Virgil

  8. #138
    Vorona
    Guest
    Equinox Chick:

    I don't think there's any evidence that he hated Muggles and Muggleborns. The only evidence is when he calls Lily a Mudblood, and that was after being hung upside down in his underwear and having people laugh at him. I don't think that's a fair assessment of actual hatred. And as for Hermione, he never refers to her blood status in any way -- the only things he has against her is her penchant for doing Neville's work for him and being too anxious to answer every question. He probably also dislikes her for being Harry's friend and helping him get into all kinds of trouble. If he hated Muggleborns, I think she would have suffered even more in his class than she actually did. He's worse on Neville, who's a Pureblood, and on Harry.

    But still -- slave to a capricious and tormenting ruler? You say he (and other Death Eaters) get a lot out of this -- what exactly do they get? I know what they wanted to get, and I can understand how many of them would have clung to that hope, but I don't see any indication that Voldemort would have actually let them have any of it, and I think the intelligent members would have seen that.

    Edit:
    Posting order snafu!

    Virgil -- I agree that many people had reasons to join, I just wonder about their reasons to stay. I can definitely agree with the idea that maybe he felt like he didn't have a choice. It's the idea of "staying because he was a true Death Eater all the way" or "staying because he really wanted to" until Lily was threatened that doesn't make sense to me. I can see staying because he was fearful of the repercussions if he tried to leave (after perhaps seeing what happened with Regulus' attempt), staying because he didn't feel like he could do any better, staying because he felt he didn't have any choice, etc. But staying because he got a lot out of it or profited in some way . . . that I don't see. The ideology didn't favor him AND the treatment under Voldemort would have left much to be desired. I just think he's too intelligent not to see that it wouldn't favor him in the long run. But yeah, I can see him deciding to stay out of fear or depression or hopelessness, etc. Just not out of enthusiasm, so to speak.

  9. #139
    misscharms
    Guest
    Okay, so I'm going to go a bit off-topic here because I have some questions that I don't think have been addressed directly.

    First is the easy question: Do you think the house Snape is living in in HBP is the same house he grew up in?

    Second is a bit harder (maybe): So, I'm trying to write a fic about Lily and am hoping to make a series of them actually. I really want it to be canon, so that would require portraying Severus as Lily's best friend. Problem is, I'm not the biggest Snape fan, and when I read The Prince's Tale, a lot of the diction is negative towards Snape, especially when there are scenes of a young Snape and Lily.

    Ultimately, I need to portray him realistically as Lily's friend. I don't want to be negative or portray him as creepy because obviously Lily valued him as a friend. So, maybe a list of Snape's good qualities? Or good qualities as Lily saw them? Or do you think they were as close (best friends) as they seem to be portrayed?

    Thanks - hope that was clear.

  10. #140
    Vorona
    Guest
    Do you think the house Snape is living in in HBP is the same house he grew up in?

    I've always assumed so, but I don't know if there's any evidence for sure either way.

    . . a list of Snape's good qualities? Or good qualities as Lily saw them? Or do you think they were as close (best friends) as they seem to be portrayed?

    I think so, yes, and it's a good exercise to find likable things about characters you don't like (I'm doing this with Ron). So - good qualities as Lily saw them:

    1. First of all, obviously, he's the first person to have recognized and valued her as a witch.

    2. He was obviously creative and inventive, and good at Potions . . . which was one of the things she was good at, too. So, they had a lot in common of things to talk about.

    3. Lily obviously had a penchant for underdogs, and there were few people as much of an underdog as Snape was -- so there may have been some pity in there . . . and that could be something Snape resented about her (and would explain his reaction in regard to the "Mudblood" comment).

    4. If you can handle a long story that's rated Professors, read In the Eyes of Others by Vindictus Viridian. The "one friend" noted in the summary is Lily, so you'll get a decent amount on their friendship. I should also note that it was written before Deathly Hallows, so it may be AU in places. This is probably the best Severus fiction on the internet. At least that I've found. It's been a long time since I've read it, though, so I don't remember details.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •