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Thread: 1945 Grindelwald/Dumbledore Battle

  1. #1
    Calico2
    Guest

    1945 Grindelwald/Dumbledore Battle

    I know that Dumbledore defeated Grindelwald in 1945, but does anyone know the month? Also, where did the duel occur? Would it make more sense to have been in Britain, or somewhere in eastern Europe, where Grindelwald was more powerful? Tell me any ideas you have!

  2. #2
    Rushia
    Guest
    About all we know about the timing is that it was in 1945. This was from the Chocolate Frog card in the first book. Not even the Lexicon has the month, so I don't think it's mentioned anywhere else in the books.

  3. #3
    Azhure
    Guest
    For second question, I have always thought that the duel would be in Bulgaria. In DH, Krum said that Grindelwald inscribed his 'symbol' on the wall of Durmstrang School, located in Bulgaria. It makes it seem like he had a lot of power there. So he would probably spend a lot of his time in and around Bulgaria.

    ~~Azhure~~

  4. #4
    JOHN91043353
    Guest
    In DH, Krum said that Grindelwald inscribed his 'symbol' on the wall of Durmstrang School, located in Bulgaria.
    Actually, Durmstrang is located in Russia, not in Bulgaria. But it's true Grindelwald was powerful there, he was powerful in the whole of Eastern Europe, so it's possible the battle took place in Bulgaria.

    I'd say it took place somewhere in Eastern Europe (maybe Bulgaria) or Germany, I don't think Britain is a very likly opption. As for the month, I'm rather sure you can choose the one you think would be best.

    Good luck

    MvH Johan

  5. #5
    XhayleeXblackX
    Guest
    I don't think Britain is a very likly opption.
    I believe that somewhere in one of the books, DH I think, it mentions that Dumbledore waited and waited until he was sure that he was the only one who could stop him (because of their history), and therefore went to find him. I am not positive on this point though, but fairly sure.

    So I think it fairly certain that the duel took place somewhere other than Britain. The Lexicon states that this duel took place during the final year of World War II, that may give you some likely places. Grindelwald built the prison, Nurmengard, which sounds as though it could be German, to me anyway. So Germany may be a likely place for the duel to have taken place.

    Hope that helped some.

    -Haylee

  6. #6
    MissyQuill
    Guest
    I personnaly tend to think that World War II and the whole Grindelwald's reighn of terror were closly related. though this could be due to the fanfics I've read and the authors ability to weave the story so beautifully but if following that, I would say Germany because Grindelwald sounds German and so does the name of his prison. As pointed out, Dumstrung is in Russia and was attended by Krum who was a Bulgarian. So whu not by a German too? the schooll was famed for its dark arts so I would imagine anyone seking more knowledge on that paticular subject would wish to attend the school regardless of where they come from.

    Hope that helped=Sammy

  7. #7
    Calico2
    Guest
    Thanks for the help, everyone! The suggestions you've made are really going to help with the epilogue for my fic.
    Mods, you can close this thread.

  8. #8
    AurorKeefy
    Guest
    A few small additions, if you don't mind.

    1.
    Durmstrang is located in Russia
    Durmstrang MAY be located in Russia, but it is no certainty. Certainly, Victor Krum's description of the climate would seem to rule out his own homeland, and northern Russia would seem to fit the bill, but this is not necessarily the case. There are many areas in Scandinavia that would also fit the climatic description. That said, the Lexicon points out that the name is Germanic in origin, which throws us another curveball. Furthermore, there is the distinct possibility that Durmstrang - like Azkhaban - is located on an unplottable island off the mainland - though by the description it would appear to have a larger land mass than Azkhaban.

    In many respects, Durmstrang is a mass of contradictions, akin to the ages of many of the characters and events. When J.K. Rowling created the place, it is unlikely that she was thinking of an exact location. All in all, it's a bit of a mess really.

    2.
    Also, where did the duel occur?
    Well, as has been pointed out, it seems likely that J.K. Rowling is tying Grindlewald rather firmly to Hitler (perhaps even the same person, given a touch of polyjuice for muggle ceremonies), certainly by the dates involved and Dumbledore's letters. Furthermore, it is implied, I believe, that it was Dumbledore's intervention that ended WWII in Europe - and the Holocaust. Working on this rather distasteful assumption, it seems reasonable that the duel took place either in Germany, or in Russia - the last focus of the German attack. Grindlewald would surely have been either advising/being his muggle alter ego, or else directing the next point of advancement. Personally I feel the former.

    3.
    I know that Dumbledore defeated Grindelwald in 1945, but does anyone know the month?
    April 30th: Hitler Commits Suicide - Is this the day of Grindlewald's death? Or perhaps Hitler kills himself having lost his best advisor? Perhaps Dumbledore even goes for Hitler first? (>_<) Maybe it is much earlier in the year, and Grindlewald's defeat hastens the demise of the Nazis? (Which also assumes that Dumbledore, upon defeating Grindlewald, trotted off home after to let thousands (millions?) more people be killed in concentration camps - which seems rather unlike him.)

    Personally, I'm inclined to believe J.K. Rowling intended his defeat to have been at some point in late April.

    All this said, I find, as I hope I have implied, the concept of Grindlewald and Hitler to be massively distasteful. I think it trivializes the actions of WWII, the loss of life and the manner in which humanity can behave. Again though, that is a personal moral opinion of mine, which is more than up for disagreement. Use in your story as you see fit.

  9. #9
    XhayleeXblackX
    Guest
    Sorry Mods, if I shouldn't be posting here since the thread starter said it could be locked and graved, but I wanted to clear one point up.

    April 30th: Hitler Commits Suicide - Is this the day of Grindlewald's death?
    According to DH, Grindlewald's death does not occur until much later in 1998, when he is murdered by Lord Voldemort after he refuses to offer him information on the Elder Wand. Also in accordance with DH, Gellert has been staying in a cell in his own prison, Nurmengard since the duel with Albus.

    However, the Lexicon does mention that this canon fact is directly contradicts with a statement from J.K. Rowling in 2005 that he died in 1945.

    All this said, what is written in the series is typically law in the Potterverse, and as Gellert's death was a fairly big point in the final book, I would use 1998 as the year of his death.

    I'm not sure that this directly relate's to your questions, Calico2, but I just thought that I would mention that.

    -Haylee

  10. #10
    JOHN91043353
    Guest
    Durmstrang MAY be located in Russia, but it is no certainty. Certainly, Victor Krum's description of the climate would seem to rule out his own homeland, and northern Russia would seem to fit the bill, but this is not necessarily the case. There are many areas in Scandinavia that would also fit the climatic description.
    Yes it's true that we don't know the exact location of Durmstrang, but the most likly theory is Russia. You're right when you say that north Scandinavia would fit the climatic description perfect, but most of the Durmstrang students we know, have slavic names. Only exception is Grindelwald who has a German name. Also the traditions and culture of Durmstrang fit better with Russia than Finland, Sweden and Norway. Although I wouldn't mind being wrong, afterall I would love having Durmstrang in my own country.

    (Oh, btw since we're talking about Scandinavia, the banner in mu siggy links to a story taking place there)

    MvH Johan

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