Walburga Black

[OliveOil_Med]

I think you need to bear in mind the era here. Whilst I'm not saying she would have been a really abusive mother, punishment and discipline for children in those days was generally a 'clip round the ear', a smack or even corporal punishment (The cane or belt were commonly used in UK schools until the late seventies when it was banned.)

But something I've wondered is just how much the wizarding world would have in common with the Muggle world in terms of ideals in child-rearing: if they would be ahead of the times, or if they would be behind the times.

I do remember the scene in OotP where Filch was going for the cane and being so excited about being able to use it. I think this implies there might have been a time when Hogwarts staff might have used a cane on disobedient students, and Filch was around at the time, though I'm not exactly sure how long Filch was at Hogwarts for.

I can see Walburga as being a strict sort of mother, but probably seeing Sirius as 'the naughty child'. But parents can look past a lot of their children's faults, and I don't think she would see her son as completely beyond redemption while he was still a young child. She probably just saw him as being strong-willed, and maybe even laughed off a lot of his behavior. Even when he was Sorted into Gryffindor, she might have been disappointed in the results, but I doubt she would have given up on her son at this point. She might having even tried to explain it away.

"It wasn't Sirius' fault. That blasted hat is ancient! It probably just mistook his strong personality for being a Gryffindor. It doesn't mean he still can't do the family proud. But we know this now, and we'll just have to make sure Regulus makes sure to tell that hat that he is a Slytherin!"

But certainly over time, I can see his mother as slowly giving up hope.

As far as the will goes, another possiblity could be that everyone they promised their fortune to died. And I doubt that the Ministry recognizes the Black family's disownment, and probably just decided to promise the money to their next-of-kin.

[Equinox Chick]

But something I've wondered is just how much the wizarding world would have in common with the Muggle world in terms of ideals in child-rearing: if they would be ahead of the times, or if they would be behind the times.

Well, Molly's childrearing technique seems to involve a lot of hugs ear boxing, and yelling. Arthur has certainly used corporal punishment on Fred and George when they tried to get Ron to make an Unbreakable Vow. George reckoned his left buttock was never the same again.

Would Walburga's parenting technique be so much more leniant than Molly and Arthur?

Regarding Filch. In DH, McGonagall says he's been complaining about Peeves for 'a quarter of a century' so he started at the school in 1973 ish. He was certainly there in 1977 because he confiscated the Marauders Map in their seventh year. Also, Molly (again) reminisces about getting caught by Apollyon Pringle - Filch's predecessor - and Arthur still having 'the marks' - so I imagine Arthur got whipped. Molly and Arthur attended school in the sixties, ten years before Sirius et al.

Carole

[Fainting Fancies]

Thank you all for your comments, you've given me a lot to think about!

I think you need to bear in mind the era here. Whilst I'm not saying she would have been a really abusive mother, punishment and discipline for children in those days was generally a 'clip round the ear', a smack or even corporal punishment (The cane or belt were commonly used in UK schools until the late seventies when it was banned.)

I hadn't thought of it this way, so thank you, Carole, for pointing it out! You're absolutely right about the Weasley's using physical punishments, and nobody would call them bad parents.

I do have another question. Do you think that the rest of Walburga's social circle, Britain's pureblood elite, would have known about how difficult Sirius was being to his parents, and his strange views? I'm not sure about this, but I think there would have been talk. I can't see Walburga pouring her heart out about her difficult son to everybody, but perhaps she confided in Druella.

Also, if the entire Black family were out at a social occassion, and sixteen-year-old Sirius was arguing with the accepted beliefs about pureblood superiority, and generally being an embarassment, how would Walburga react. I doubt she would crucio him on the spot, but would she tell him to stop, would she shout at him then and there? Would she wait until they got home to discipline him? For some reason, perhaps because we don't meet Orion Black in the books, I see her as being a more proactive figure in terms of discipline.

Thanks again for your help!

~Hannah~

[ToBeOrNotToBeAGryffindor]

Do you think that the rest of Walburga's social circle, Britain's pureblood elite, would have known about how difficult Sirius was being to his parents, and his strange views? I'm not sure about this, but I think there would have been talk. I can't see Walburga pouring her heart out about her difficult son to everybody, but perhaps she confided in Druella.

I think the Blacks would have done their utmost to hide Sirius from society in general when they found out about his Gryffindor affliction. There may have been talk about not seeing Sirius anymore when the family went on outings, but I'm sure they could come up with some cover story about him being at a Slytherin friend's house (yeah, so that wasn't very original, but I just woke up ). As for confiding in her sister, I don't think she would, because the Blacks are proud people, and showing weakness (or at least perceived weakness) is tantamount to failure in the eyes of the family, I'd think.

Also, if the entire Black family were out at a social occassion, and sixteen-year-old Sirius was arguing with the accepted beliefs about pureblood superiority, and generally being an embarassment, how would Walburga react? I doubt she would crucio him on the spot, but would she tell him to stop, would she shout at him then and there? Would she wait until they got home to discipline him? For some reason, perhaps because we don't meet Orion Black in the books, I see her as being a more proactive figure in terms of discipline.

I don't think she'd cast an Unforgivable, but I think a quick Silencing Charm could solve that problem in a jiffy. However, I think he'd be in for a good tongue lashing, or maybe even a real lashing, when they got home. And as for Orion...he's the dad, so it's his 'duty' to lay the proverbial smackdown. I'm sure he would have his hand in on the punishment for Sirius's 'bad' behavior.

[fg_weasley]

Do you think that the rest of Walburga's social circle, Britain's pureblood elite, would have known about how difficult Sirius was being to his parents, and his strange views? I'm not sure about this, but I think there would have been talk. I can't see Walburga pouring her heart out about her difficult son to everybody, but perhaps she confided in Druella.

Actually, I believe that her sister-in-law would be the very last person that Walburga would tell - and it's already been said that she probably wouldn't tell anyone. The way I see it, Walburga would have tried her absolute hardest to make sure that no one knew of her son's acting out, because it would put a stain on the family and her as a mother. Her frustrations would probably taken out on Sirius, maybe discussed with her husband, but I doubt it would go past that.

But going back to her sister - I can imagine the Blacks comparing their families and sizing each other up - telling Druella would, essentially, be admitting that she and her family are better than Walburga's, something I'm sure her proud nature would never allow.

Also, if the entire Black family were out at a social occassion, and sixteen-year-old Sirius was arguing with the accepted beliefs about pureblood superiority, and generally being an embarassment, how would Walburga react. I doubt she would crucio him on the spot, but would she tell him to stop, would she shout at him then and there? Would she wait until they got home to discipline him? For some reason, perhaps because we don't meet Orion Black in the books, I see her as being a more proactive figure in terms of discipline.

Personally, I think this is where people tend to take canon too literally, and Walburga ends up shouting herself hoarse in fanfiction. I don't like to think that Walburga would start yelling and shouting in front of other people; that would be far too scandalous. We don't see Orion in the books, no, but if other pureblood spousal interactions are anything to go on, I'd bet that Walburga might give Orion a look that would tell him to silence his son, or else Orion would do it without her prompting. When they got home, behind closed doors, I can see her being a lot more involved in the punishment, but I can also see it as something both Orion and Walburga would take part in. As has been said, as father and head of the family, it would be Orion's 'duty' to lay hand, but his wife has a dominant personality, so I think that, once alone, it wouldn't be out of character to have her sort of override him at that point, especially if she were truly angry.

Bine: You've been warned before - 5 points from Hufflepuff for not following posting rules.

[Fainting Fancies]

Thank you again for your insights!

Actually, I believe that her sister-in-law would be the very last person that Walburga would tell - and it's already been said that she probably wouldn't tell anyone. The way I see it, Walburga would have tried her absolute hardest to make sure that no one knew of her son's acting out, because it would put a stain on the family and her as a mother. Her frustrations would probably taken out on Sirius, maybe discussed with her husband, but I doubt it would go past that.

But going back to her sister - I can imagine the Blacks comparing their families and sizing each other up - telling Druella would, essentially, be admitting that she and her family are better than Walburga's, something I'm sure her proud nature would never allow.

I definitely agree that would be an element of competition in the Black family; whose offspring are doing what, who's making the best marriage ties etc., and I certainly don't see Walburga shouting from the rooftops about her wayward son.

The reason I wonder if Walburga might have discussed Sirius with Druella is that Druella's daughter Andromeda was also a disgrace to the family. Perhaps this might give them something in common, and Walburga might ask for advice about how to deal with Sirius. I only think that this is a maybe, the more I play with it in my head, I can sort of see Walburga needling Druella with insults about her daughter and getting very defensive when Druella returns the favour. Hmmm, it's very tricky.

Jess and fg_weasley, I agree with it being Orion's job to provide discipline. I can totally see Walburga giving him a look!

Thanks very much!

~Hannah~