Lucius Malfoy

[cmwinters]

Yes, the Wizarding World seems to have somewhat antiquated ideals and traditions. But bear in mind that half of the founders were female and that there were women who were heads of the government, the school, and St Mungo's in the 1700s, which hardly fits the obedient meek, wife template. Narcissa doesn't appear to work, but then again, neither does Lucius, and women within the Wizarding World have been working for longer than in the Muggle World.

To me, it's one thing to say that people are expected to remain faithful to their spouse (something I honestly feel has a magical connotation), that there is not likely to be divorce, and to not manipulate the emotions of someone close to them, and another entirely to assume that Narcissa was a shrinkng wallflower. Narcissa is a Black FIRST, then a Malfoy, and Walburga could hardly be called weak or passive. Aramina Meliflua was apparently in government, and I got the impression that was at least fifty years before his conversation with Harry about it.

I absolutely agree that the Ministry would be suspicious of Lucius. I can absolutely see the Ministry raiding Malfoy Manor and the Malfoys privately being incredibly put out about this, although I think publically, they would appear to cooperate in every way (you know, one of them ensuring they're fully accomodated while another is off hiding things that could incriminate them or that they wished to keep for whatever reason). However, I sincerely doubt that Narcissa wouldn't want to regain their position, provided she could do it without endangering the life of her son.

Remember, these are die-hard born and bred Slytherins. They look out for themselves. Given the choice between extinction and position, they'll choose life, but with extinction not an option, they'll absolutely vie for position. Their wealth, their standing, their name, was very, very important to all three of them.

[TyrannoLaurus]

True, JKR does let women play a more active role within the politics of the Wizarding world. Probably because she wanted there to be gender equality But for the type of family the Malfoys and the Blacks are, I get the impression that the domestic rules were still patriachal. The Slytherin ideals were patriachal - whilst JKR doesn't explicitly speak about it, I have always got the impression that Salazar was quite misogynistic, and that his sentiments were carried down through his followers. I certainly don't believe that Narcissa and Lucius' marriage was a love match - a little too coincidental between the two prominant Slytherin families. The reason why Bellatrix was so evil!girl power might have begun as a rebellion against the patriachy in her family.

And I think you misunderstand my view of Narcissa. When I say she was expected to be obedient, I wasn't saying she was therefore weak. The most successful women of pre-20th Century society were those who were able to continue being obedient to their husbands whilst finding a position of power for themselves, and finding ways to bring themselves satisfaction. For many woman, that was through child-bearing and creating a network of friends with the other wives of prominant noblemen. I very much see Narcissa doing this, and Lucius being happy to allow her to do this ... so long as she didn't suddenly begin making friends with Muggleborns!

I also think that Narcissa will have aged because of the war, and no longer find the lifestyle she lived before as meaningful again. Lucius would. He'd want to return to that type of lifestyle straight away - because he would see it was his 'glory days' of being Mr High and Mighty - and so would seek to regain those connections. He'd want to go to formal events and converse with old friends to discover all the Ministry's intentions for reform and new policies, and exactly who was implimenting them and who they're allegiances were. Narcissa, I believe, would simply want to spend time with her son and husband, who she was so close to losing. She wouldn't want Lucius to do anything again that might risk her losing them.

[Squib Kitten]

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[cmwinters]

He was likely born in 1954, given that in the fall of 1995, he was 41. In OotP, Rita Skeeter does an article for the Prophet, and quotes the "41 year old Lucius Malfoy from his Manor in Wiltshire". He definitely did not grow up during WWII.

Given the fact that the Malfoys had at least one house-elf, and that house-elves are declared by Ron to come with old families with lots of money, then I'd say yes, Lucius is probably Old Money.

Having said that, I can absolutely see Lucius taking advantage of Muggle investments, what with compound interest being the most powerful force in the universe and all that.

[Rhi for HP]

Does anyone know Lucius's age? I have a vague notion that he is about the same age as Molly and Arthur Weasley, but younger than Voldemort, who was 50.

I am trying to figure out what era he grew up in, and how it had an effect on him. It's quite possible that he was a child during WWII, and it would have a big impact on the story I'm writing about his youth.

And does it specifically say that he comes from "old money"? Is is possible that his family was a bit like the Gaunts (but not quite that poor), with a lot of pride in their name and not a lot to back it up?

Lucius was a prefect when Snape was a first year, making him four years older than Snape, who according to JKR is, if my memory serves me right, between ages 35 and 38. So Lucius is about 39-42 (not as old as he looks in the movies!!). So, not around during WWII, but that would make a pretty cool story--maybe with the right warnings attached you could go for it anyway.
It doesn't specifically say "old money", but I've always thought of them that way, as Lucius doesn't seem to have a very money-making job (too busy greasing other palms), and yet the family is clearly rich, living in a mansion with white peacocks and all that. I've always thought of Malfoy Manor as a very old mansion handed down through the generations. Basically what I'm trying to say is the evidence seems to point to old money, but with the right warnings, or even without them, as you're right, the text never says that specifically, you can go ahead and write a story from that angle-- which would be pretty interesting.

[Sainyn Swiftfoot]

A Lucius thread! Exactly what I wanted!

Now, in this fic I a mworking on, Lucius has an elder brother and a younger sister. His parents are dead, and he is being taken care of by his grandfather.

The elder brother does not care about the ostentatiousness of the Malfoy's, the prestige, etc. He is a drunkard, who openly disregards his family.

The younger sister is eighteen, very innocent, and deeply in love with a half-blood.

Here are my questions:

Do you think it is plausible for Lucius to care a *bit* about his sister, and hate his brother?

At what age do you think Lucius got married?

If he came to know that his sister is in love with a half-blood, would he try to talk to her and sort things out, or would he fly into a rage and shout?

I know Abraxas was Lucius' father, but who was his mother, and paternal grandparents?

When do you think Lucius joined the Death Eaters?

Was his marriage with Narcissa arranged?

If he was very close to his Grandfather, and his Grandfather killed Lucius' elder brother who Lucius hated, do you think Lucius would turn in his Grandfather if by killing the brother, the Grandpa also spoiled all chances of Lucius' sister marrying the Half-blood she liked?

Did the above question even make any sense?

Is it a good idea to have the cane of Lucius to be a family heirloom? I know it is not in the books, but I am in *love* with it!

Thanks for your opinions,
BB

[h_vic]

Do you think it is plausible for Lucius to care a *bit* about his sister, and hate his brother?

I think that's perfectly plausible. Status is very important to Lucius and if his brother is damaging the family's reputation and standing then that really isn't going to endear him to Lucius. As for his sister, we saw in DH that he obviously cares about his wife and son, so I don't think it would be too much of a stretch to assume he could care about a sister too.

At what age do you think Lucius got married?

Well, according to the Lexicon, Lucius' first year at Hogwarts was 1965, so he would have left in the summer of 1973, with Narcissa leaving a year later. Draco was born in June 1980. So the likely window for when the Malfoys married appears to be between the summer of 1974 and the summer of 1979 (presuming that they were in fact married before Draco was conceived). So it would have been when Lucius was between 19 and 25.

If he came to know that his sister is in love with a half-blood, would he try to talk to her and sort things out, or would he fly into a rage and shout?

I'm not sure it would really be either. I get the impression he'd just tell her not to be ridiculous, that it would be too lowly a connection for someone of her blood and that she should forget about this man. He'd expect to be obeyed and that would be the end of it. If his parents are dead and his brother's useless, then I think he would have taken on the mantle of the man of the house quite early.

When do you think Lucius joined the Death Eaters?

I think it would most likely be after he left Hogwarts, so at some stage after 1973 but before Voldemort's fall in 1981. Also since he was a fairly senior DE when Voldemort returned, he was presumably in that position before the events of Halloween 1981, so he presumably was a DE of a number of years standing by that time. To me that suggests that he most likely joined in the first couple of years after he left school.

Was his marriage with Narcissa arranged?

It would certainly have been strongly encouraged as an appropriate Pureblood-union, whether it was arranged is more open to interpretation. It is quite a Lucius/Narcissa cliche, but that's partly because there's a certain ring of believability about it so it gets heavily used. However, in DH they obviously care for each other, so it's perfectly reasonable to suggest that they married for love too. I think that with this one, it's really entirely up to you which way you go with it because both ways could work if dealt with well.

If he was very close to his Grandfather, and his Grandfather killed Lucius' elder brother who Lucius hated, do you think Lucius would turn in his Grandfather if by killing the brother, the Grandpa also spoiled all chances of Lucius' sister marrying the Half-blood she liked?

No, I don't he would, since he hated his brother anyway, and I don't believe he'd want his sister to marry a Half-Blood no matter how indulgent he was of her. He also wouldn't wish to damage the family reputation any further by turning his grandfather in, so I think that, if Lucius felt that the matter needed dealing with, he would deal with it privately rather than officially.

Hope some of that helped.

~Hannah

[leahsm2]

To me, it's one thing to say that people are expected to remain faithful to their spouse (something I honestly feel has a magical connotation)

That's an interesting theory. Would the "magical connotation" be sort of an extra added component to the "death do us part" Muggle thing, in that you would not only be expected to keep your vows, but have an even more absolute duty to do so, or do you think that by maintaining the faith with your spouse that would presumably be in the Magical Marriage Ceremony you would further your own grasp of the magical?

I guess what I mean is that beyond the presumed social imperative of Faithfulness, there is an added personal (Selfish) component for keeping your vows?

[cmwinters]

That's an interesting theory. Would the "magical connotation" be sort of an extra added component to the "death do us part" Muggle thing, in that you would not only be expected to keep your vows, but have an even more absolute duty to do so, or do you think that by maintaining the faith with your spouse that would presumably be in the Magical Marriage Ceremony you would further your own grasp of the magical?

I guess what I mean is that beyond the presumed social imperative of Faithfulness, there is an added personal (Selfish) component for keeping your vows?

*wonders if this discussion should be taken elsewhere*

Erm. The magical world seems to be fairly Victorian. In a place where magic equals power and respect, and purity of blood even moreso, I would think that there would be spells to ensure that one's spouse is faithful to one's self. Not just the (presumably pureblooded) women to the (presumably also pureblooded) men, but vice versa, to ensure that any offspring are not only legally legitimate but also magically legitimate.

Both Lucius and Narcissa are magically powerful people from powerful and influential families. Remember, Jo said that Bellatrix made a respectable pureblood marriage because that's what was expected of her and I can easily see it being expected of all of them. Andromeda rebelled, Regulus died and Sirius went to jail, but it's quite reasonable to assume (at least, in my not so humble opinion) that the same thing would have been expected of the three of them. The presumed additional responsibility, not only to marry, is to create at least one viable heir. Maybe even just one; the purebloods haven't bene reproducing at a sustainable level for the last couple of generations.

So I would imagine that there could be some sort of enchantment to keeping your vows, at least insofar as not having illegitimate children goes.

Now whether this works like a preemptive compulsion (think: Imperio) or punitively (think: Spots on your face in the shape of a big red A, a la Marietta Edgecombe), I don't know.

And I don't think that all families would use it. I can't see, for example, Arthur & Molly using it. I can absolutely see Narcissa & Lucius using it, though.

[leahsm2]

So I would imagine that there could be some sort of enchantment to keeping your vows, at least insofar as not having illegitimate children goes.

Now whether this works like a preemptive compulsion (think: Imperio) or punitively (think: Spots on your face in the shape of a big red A, a la Marietta Edgecombe), I don't know.

Huh. . . Well. . . Hmm. . . Ummm. . . Gosh, apparently I'm one for three in the Theoretical
Magic I Took for Granted Department today. . . can hardly wait to post tommorow!