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Thread: Lucius Malfoy

  1. #11
    kathyhermy123
    Guest
    Hey!

    Lucius as a Death Eater

    I get the feeling that the Dark Side is a matter of convenience for Lucius. It gives him more power, and more importance. It is mainly a way of gaining power, not a loyalty. For example, as soon as Voldemort went down Lucius got out of there with no second thoughts. He used the things that he had been given to assist with the things that he wanted to happen instead of having his loyalties tie him down. I don't think that anyone could argue that he had great loyalties to the Death Eaters: it's pretty clear that he doesn't.

    Lucius as a Father

    If you opened up a 'How to be a Good Parent' handbook, Lucius wouldn't be mentioned until the 'What NOT to do' section. He is about the exact opposite of a responsible, caring parent. He hits Draco, he ignores Draco, he instills cruel tendencies in Draco. He is arguably worse than the Dursleys, and that takes some doing.

    Any fic that portrays Lucius as a caring father who is trying to help his young son is sadly mistaken. Lucius's affection only covers the part of Draco that is the family heir. He does try to make sure that Draco does well in the world, but I think that that is more about not squandering the family fortune than anything else.

    Lucius as a Husband

    Somehow, I don't picture Lucius as a loving husband; more as a tolerating one. Sorry, Schmergo. I wouldn't be surprised if he wasn't exactly the definition of faithful, either, though I would be surprised if he ever actually cared for someone. Any relationships would be more like flings, all of which Lucius is in complete control of and are more entertainment than anything else.

    Lucius as a Redeemable Man

    Nope. I don't think that that could ever fly, unless... well, if he had been dropped on his head when he was little, he might be crazy, so you could say that he never knew what he was doing... or, on a more serious note, maybe he saved someone's life in the last battle, ie Hermione. Or he might have left a Horcrux lying about deliberatly so that Voldemort would be defeated and therefore would stop crucio-ing him... yea. It'll be hard to make it work.


    That's just my views, but I'd like to add another question:

    Would Lucius disown any children/grandchildren who were not sorted into Slytherin, even if they were sorted into a house other than Gryfinndor, i.e. Ravenclaw?

    Thanks in advance.

    ~Kathy

  2. #12
    Amber0_o
    Guest
    Would Lucius disown any children/grandchildren who were not sorted into Slytherin, even if they were sorted into a house other than Gryfinndor, i.e. Ravenclaw?

    As long as they keep up the 'pure-blood only' ideals, then no I don't think he would disown them. I think he would prefere to know they are in Slytherin, but I don't think he would scoff at Ravenclaw. Maybe Hufflepuff, but again, it depends on the child/grandchild.

  3. #13
    Schmerg_The_Impaler
    Guest
    So does anyone have any idea what could redeem Lucius?
    *Evil grin* Ahahaha. I've actually written a fic about this. I think that Lucius has a great amount of pride in himself, and the only thing that can make him think more about others and his so-called inferiors would be if he lost his high opinion of himself.

    In my story, (which is entitled, "How Ironic, Mr. Malfoy,") Lucius finds out he's Muggle-born and adopted. Rather far-fetched, but I think, or at least hope, that I made it work.

    I've also written a story, not posted on MNFF, called "Poor Lucius," which is a songfic to "There's Nothing Quite As Wonderful as Money" from Monty Python's Flying Circus. That story investigates the possibility that Lucius actually has a problem in that he is addicted to money. Every decision he's made has been to get more money, and his longing for more has put a damper on his relationship with his family and friends, his esteem in the world, and more.

    In the story, a young teenage Lucius snaps when his father, Abraxas, dismisses all the house elves and sells the heirlooms to the wealthy Weasley family. The family had a great fortune, but Abraxas gambles it away in hippogriff races. Lucius is sick of his father's addiction and decides that he's going to get back the Malfoy fortune if it kills him. (And harbours such a grudge that he's all too happy to have a hippogriff executed.) He doesn't realize that he also has a problem until he finds himself stopping in the middle of a street to pick up a Knut that somebody dropped.

    Puts quite an interesting spin on Lucius's personality, doesn't it? It also explains why he flaunts his riches so much, especially to the now-poor Weasleys. Although he comes from an 'old money' family, he's the one who brought back all the riches, so he's really a noveau riche guy.

  4. #14
    FounderDisagreement
    Guest
    So does anyone have any idea what could redeem Lucius?
    I think Lucius is kind of a spoiled child. He hasn't really grown up in some places. I mean, sure, he's killed people and tortured 'em and all, but he's still a spolied brat.
    At first he marries Cissy as a duty and because he can flaunt her beauty at people. Then they have Draco. Lucius raises Draco as a duty and flaunts that he has a smart and perfect son at more people (Crabbe and Goyle Sr. for that manner) Then Cissy and Draco start to grow on him, and he starts to love them, though he doesn't show it. If you've read DH, you understand what I mean right?
    So... I don't have any ideas for how to redeem him, maybe his wife or son could, but yes, I think he could be redeemed.


    Would Lucius disown any children/grandchildren who were not sorted into Slytherin, even if they were sorted into a house other than Gryfinndor, i.e. Ravenclaw?
    I think Lucius wouldn't disown them if they tell him that they were almost put into Slytherin, but they were too smart.

    -Lady Panda, who is a fan of Schmerg's "The Dark Lord's Blog."

  5. #15
    Ryan The Wizard
    Guest
    Growing up in a pureblood family like the Malfoys can NOT have been easy for Lucius if he is indeed the sociopath that we believe him to be. He was raised to believe that Muggles and anything to do with them are scum, and that wizards deserve to rule the world. So when he found a ringleader at Hogwarts that emulated that exact theory and turned into something of his own, of course he latched on. Everybody in Slytherin was a pureblood, sure, but most of them didn't take it to the extreme, the way Lucius had been raised.

    I think he knows it's wrong to kill them just because they're Muggles, but there's nothing he could do about it. It's how he was brought up. So naturally, when the Dark Lord fell for the first time, he proclaimed far and wide that he denounced the Dark Lord and that he was Imperiused the entire time.

    In his heart he knew that Dark Lord would return, because in Ginny's first year, as you all know, he gave Riddle's diary to Ginny. This was so he wouldn't feel guilty when returning to him.

    Now on to your questions.

    The only thing that could've redeemed Lucius Malfoy was very similar to what his wife did for Harry. Because Cissy lied to the Dark Lord about Potter being dead, she saved his life and consequentially, the lives of most of the wizarding world. Who cares if it was selfish? (for finding her son) She still effectively stopped the Dark Lord's rampage.

    Lucius needs to turn on the Dark Lord, or rather, he needed to. I think eventually he got accepted into the Weasley frame of mind. Not willingly mind you. That's why Draco was able to acknowledge Harry and Co.'s existence without yelling out "POTTY, WEASELBY or MUDBLOOD" to any of them.

    He would not disown Draco just for not being in Slytherin. He would, at the time, ahve encouraged him to support the pureblood ideals, but he wouldn't disown him. I believe they would have tried to have another son, a Slytherin this time, just so Lucius could say he had a right proper heir in the making. But that was when he was as concerned with his public persona as he was his mortal life.

    All in all, I think he may have changed. Slightly, yes. But at least he's not levitating Muggle's by their ankles anymore.

  6. #16
    tibi jones
    Guest

    Lucius' character

    I see Lucius as a true Slytherin. He is deceptive, self-centred, courageous and prideful. I do not see him doing anything without a purpose to it that is beneficial to himself. He is not really interested in Voldemort's agenda except that it purports to purify the wizarding community. I see no higher purpose than this to motivate Lucius. The CoS incident was not ordered by Voldemort, Lucius acted for his own desire of accomplishing Salizar Slytherin's position that only pure bloods should be accepted to Hogwarts as students.

    The reason for any of his "charity" is two-fold. First, to curry favour to be in a position to influence policy that accomplishes his primary goal. Second, just recuperating his stature following Voldemort's failure.

    I have never had the feeling that he abuses his family, perhaps he would be a tad verbally abusive, but only if he feels he has been embarrassed, particularly by his pure blood son who he feels is better than any half or mudblood, much as the Nazi's felt during the '32 Olympics, being upstaged by someone they felt was inferior to them, or even the Norman - Saxon relationshp in history. This prejudice is generally preached bt elders and passed down through the generations. Look to many 'nobles' of all civilizations.

    Lucius holds his family to a high standard, which unfortunately is impractical. I feel his relationship with his wife would mirror that of arranged marriages as pointed out previously, particularly that of the Victorian era. I could see his wife learning to love him much more than he her. I could even picture Lucius having a mistress if their world was not in turmoil. The danger and his own failures coupled with his son's would be enough to make him look at what he has and possibly value it finally, learning what love is.

    It is dificult to see him as psychopathic, possibly sociopathic as they tend to do well in business and politics and can be very ruthless. I see him as an ambitious man, willing to step on those he feels are inferior and blame others for his misfortunes. He definitely knows what he is doing. In short, he is a bigoted elitist who has no compassion for his perceived inferiors.

    Please excuse any grammer or spelling mistakes, I posted hastily. Ta.

  7. #17
    TyrannoLaurus
    Guest
    *brings thread back to life*

    I am wrestling at the moment with all these different perceptions of Lucius Malfoy. I think, reading through this post, that I agree most with tibi jones: he is a very selfish, prideful man who would do anything to dominate. Coming from one of the prominant pureblood families is, in my view, akin to having an earldom and being part of the English nobility to - it sets you above the gentry and it means that you hold significant influence over the politics of the state. Of course, in modern Britian this doesn't apply, but I believe that the Potterverse does represent Victorian values in many respects, with the ruling Pureblood families being one of these aspects. As such, it would be Lucius' job as 'head of the household' to maintain that position, to ensure that his opinion was the first one that the governors of Hogwarts and the Ministry of Magic would consult. To lose this influence would be deemed a failure.

    I am not sure if it is money he is after, as Schmerg suggests, because I believe they have plenty of it. From JKR's description of Malfoy Manor it would certainly appear so. And if I am right, and JKR did use the landed nobility as a model for the Malfoy family, then that money will have been kept in land, investments and various other things for generations.

    What I do believe, however, is that Lucius has a love of the Dark Arts. In the same way as Severus has, but his conscience eventually reins him back. I believe that his attraction to the Dark Lord wasn't one of loyalty or fascination in the individual, but an opportunity to learn more about the dark arts and even given him reasons to use it at times. Magic is power - the most powerful magic is dark magic, and thus Lucius would have been attracted to it as his own means of gaining power. And he was succeeding, too. When we first meet him in Book 1 and 2 he's the most powerful wizard of the time. Then he got caught in the MoM and got sent to Azkaban and it all went down hill from there ... hee!


    What I am most interested in, however, is Lucius post-trial and post-DH. I assume the Ministry will have stripped him of his assets and left him with only his pureblood status and infamous name to build up from. His pride would be very wounded, and I think it's then that we might see a growing resentment of Narcissa and Draco. Especially seeing as I think Draco has learnt some hard lessons throughout the war and will become more of a modern man, and venture away from the pureblood ideals. Not to say he wouldn't marry a pureblood, just that he wouldn't share all of his father's sentiments. I am sure Lucius would try and rebuild his position in society, even if most of his old comrades are dead or in prison, and even though the Ministry would have him in tight check. I think he'd be very jealous of the 'new men' who will have risen in prominance since the victory of the good side. It would be very interesting to look at how he would cope with it. I certainly don't see him resigning to his fate. So, what would he do to get himself back up there at the top?

  8. #18
    greennotebook
    Guest

    Lucius, the War Hero

    That's an interesting question. I also do not believe that Lucius would resign himself to humility for the rest of his days. He seems to have a knack for sensing the dominating sentiments of a society and would know how to react. Therefore, I imagine that he'll start playing up what his family did in the war. Lucius Malfoy turned against Voldemort, you see. In fact, his wife, at great risk to life and limb actually lied to the Dark Lord, effectively resulting in his downfall. I mean.... sure, Harry Potter saved the wizarding world, but who was responsible for saving Harry Potter?

    From what JKR has said about the Malfoys post-DH, it appears that they weaseled out of trouble again. I don't think that the would have lost everything. I imagine that hosting Voldemort and his Death Eaters for an extended period might have dampened the assets a little, anyway, and if the ministry can't prove anything, they can't legally exact punishment. I'm sure that Lucius will make some crucial donations to various post-war charity efforts and squeal on every Death Eater he knows anything about. In the end, the ministry will have bigger fish to fry. Malfoy won't be stupid enough to try and orchestrate any more revolutions, and the newly-organized government will leave him alone too.

    I figure Lucius will hold onto some of his blood-prejudice, but much in the way of your old great-grand-aunt who is not racist or classist at all.... just as long as your boyfriend is of the same ethnicity you are. Throughout HBP and DH, Lucius experienced reality check after reality check as he lost virtually all control over his life and the things important to him. The war really shook Lucius up, and his priorities have been more plainly illuminated. There are more important things to quibble over than who other wizarding families want to mix their blood with.

    Speaking of illuminated priorities, however, I think DH really illuminated Lucius' family life for us readers. The predominant line of thought in this thread is that Lucius would be disinterested in his family at best and abusive at his worst. I feel that JKR made it pretty clear that this is not the case. In the latter part of the book, every move Lucius and Narcissa make is about protecting Draco. They don't abandon him for not living up to the Dark Lord's plans, they don't try and save face with Voldemort, they just try to get to Draco. As they are running through the battle in the Great Hall, "screaming for their son," (and yes, take note, "their son," not Narcissa's), they do not even raise their wands to defend themselves against potential harm. This is not an act of someone looking to save his skin, let alone to save face and reputation. Lucius's priority is his son, because Lucius loves Draco.

    However limited that love may be, as it is likely only for his family, it is there. That is the difference between a Death Eater like Lucius and Voldemort. The love Lucius (and Narcissa) have for Draco sets off a series of events that allows the Good Side to win. They are not the pure blackness that Voldemort is. They are not pleasant by any means, and they perhaps should be held more culpable for their actions then they are, but as far as I can tell, Lucius and his wife do love each other and their son.

    Sorry for the length. I get too into this sometimes. Any thoughts from you guys?

    Beth: Interesting thoughts/ideas. 5 points

  9. #19
    cmwinters
    Guest
    I have an entirely different view of Lucius and I confess sometimes I wonder whether it's canon or fanon that people get their view of him especially.

    Lucius, Narcissa AND Draco renounced the Dark Lord, if not in word, but certainly in deed, before the fall of the Dark Lord. And I think that is going to count for something; the Order allowed them to stay in the Great Hall without repercussion, and while I think they will have to make amends for their misdeeds, I'm not entirely sure this is going to entail seizure of all their property and financial assets.

    Now, I don't know what laws are in Britain, or even in Wizarding Britain, but there are parts of America where you can't have your house seized or be forced to sell it for crimes or fines.

    Aside from that, Lucius is quite intelligent and resourceful in his own right, and he's certainly savvy enough to hire people to protect his assets, both real property and otherwise.

    I am of the opinion that someone as well-connected as Lucius is absolutely unapologetic about diversifying his portfolio, and even going to the extent of having large-scale Muggle investments (think Wal-Mart, Microsoft, Apple, Google, Nakheel Properties, Immobiliare, etc). He's also intelligent enough to dissociate his, er, business dealings away from his family, and I can easily see him putting his property in Draco's name, perhaps as early as Draco's birth, or even Narcissa's name, as a wedding gift.

    Narcissa seems savvy and intelligent enough that she wouldn't have caught supporting the Dark Lord outright. I don't think she was actually a "branded" Death Eater, and we don't see her doing anything that she couldn't reasonably have pleaded in court that she was forced into.

    We also have absolutely ZERO evidence that Lucius was ever anything but a loving and devoted father. Yes, he basically told him to shut up and quit whining, when Draco was being a petulant brat, and clearly expected more of Draco than Draco was giving, but he seems to have otherwise spoiled Draco and doted upon him with genuine affection.

    As for his interests in the Dark Arts, where I think Snape specifically had a love for the Dark Arts based on them being *dark*, I think Lucius was more after control, power, and overthrowing what he seems to have seen as a genuine threat to his world and his livelihood. That is, if he could've gotten what he wanted by using "light" magic, I think he would have done (and quite frankly, probably DID) that just the same. Not Dark Arts because it's Dark, but Dark Arts because it's *power* and *influence* and *protection* and *security* for future generations.

    I don't know that he necessarily enjoyed torturing and killing Muggles, Muggle-borns and half-bloods, you know, the way *Bellatrix* or even Dolohov does, but probably thought it something merely necessary to secure his place and his family's future.

    I do agree that he'd probably be disdainful of "new money" almost as much as he is of Muggleborns, but I don't think he'd run away with his tail tucked between his legs at all. First, I don't think that's in his personality; I see him more as the type to strategically retreat and regroup and build up his strength and position again. And he would absolutely mind his tone and his tongue in public, and be all sweetness and light to those he considers beneath him . . . and then when he got home, the epithets would come out.

    I also think that Draco fully embraced his father's and mother's ideals, and Astoria is a pureblood of good standing within Slytherin House. Yes, the Weasleys are purebloods too, but they do not have good standing in Slytherin House.

    Beth: 5 points to you and TyrannoLaurus for carrying on such an interesting conversation about Lucius

  10. #20
    TyrannoLaurus
    Guest
    Hmmm, interesting. You've both made me reconsider things. Admittedly, I know very little about law! Firstly, you're right, CM, he would have had some wealth stored away somewhere that the Ministry couldn't reach. It would be wrong to leave him with nothing. In my first chapter, though, I have him returning to a raided and overturned Malfoy Manor. The Ministry would have raided the building because it was the home of the Dark Lord for a year, and confiscated anything and everything that looked suspicious. The house would be left derelict after that, until Lucius was able to return. I don't see Narcissa and Draco living there alone, because of all the bad memories it held.

    However, I still don't see them releasing him and letting him go without a backward glance. Whether or not he renounced the Dark Lord in the end would have been hotly debated. They would have put him on watch and made sure to track where he was living, what his family were doing, who he was meeting. Whilst the general mood of the people might be 'forgive and forget' I don't see the Ministry willing to let such a prominant former Death Eater be forgiven that easily. Even if it was decided that he converted to the good side in the end, it would have been too little too late in many people's eyes.

    As for his relationship with Narcissa and Draco. I have never believed that he abused them or even that he didn't love them ... just that he wasn't what you would call a family man. He would have raised Draco strictly and Narcissa would have been expected to be obedient, also. That's what the traditional ideals called for. In the aftermath of the war I think the Malfoy family would have found it harder to get back to a normal life than any other. Everything would have been turned upside down for them. I don't see Narcissa being too comfortable returning to the traditional family set-up after the loss of her sister, the loss of their wealth and reputation. I think they'd be arguing between the two, because Lucius would be bent on regaining his position ... whilst Narcissa would be less keen because she knows what trouble it leads to. As for Draco, I think Lucius will resent Draco inside, if not visibly, for being young enough to turn his life around. Draco will be at that age when he's looking to career, moving out, finding a wife ... everything is before him, whilst everything is behind Lucius!

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