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Thread: Aurors and the Army

  1. #1

    Aurors and the Army

    Don't know where else to put this - anyway, I expect that Aurors are like a wizarding army, or at least the lead the army, right?

    I also need to know army ranks and what each person (general, etc) does. I suppose these would apply to wizards as well?

  2. #2
    I have always thought Aurors were like Policemen. Upon looking through my memory though, I remember Arthur Weasely distinctly saying something about The Magical Law Enforcement doing the Policing (the Aurors being higher up). So yes, in essentials, I think at least a part of the Auror department would have something to do with the wizard army. But remember! Wizarding wars were very tiny until the first big war. I doubt the Ministry would have a prepared army at their hands.
    Anyway, the Muggle army.
    I found this article of sorts very helpful.
    Warning! It's detailed.

    Well, first you have the Enlisted Ranks (the ones who actually work

    (Addressed as "Private")
    Lowest rank: a trainee who’s starting Basic Combat Training (BCT). Primary role is to carry out orders issued to them to the best of his/her ability. (PVT does not have an insignia)

    (Addressed as "Private")
    PV2s are promoted to this level after one year—or earlier by request of supervisor. Individual can begin BCT at this level with experience or prior military training. Carries out orders issued to them to the best of his/her ability.

    (Addressed as "Specialist")
    Can manage other enlisted Soldiers of lower rank. Has served a minimum of two years and attended a specific training class to earn this promotion. People enlisting with a four year college degree can enter BCT as a Specialist.

    (Addressed as "Corporal")
    The base of the Non-Commissioned Officer (NCO) ranks, CPLs serve as team leader of the smallest Army units. Like SGTs, they are responsible for individual training, personal appearance and cleanliness of Soldiers.

    (Addressed as "Sergeant")
    Typically commands a squad (9 to 10 Soldiers). Considered to have the greatest impact on Soldiers because SGTs oversee them in their daily tasks. In short, SGTs set an example and the standard for Privates to look up to, and live up to.

    (Addressed as "Sergeant")
    Also commands a squad (9 to 10 Soldiers). Often has one or more SGTs under their leadership. Responsible for developing, maintaining and utilizing the full range of his Soldiers' potential.

    (Addressed as "Sergeant")
    Key assistant and advisor to the platoon leader. Generally has 15 to 18 years of Army experience and puts it to use by making quick, accurate decisions in the best interests of the Soldiers and the country.

    (Addressed as "Master Sergeant")
    Principal NCO at the battalion level, and often higher. Not charged with all the leadership responsibilities of a 1SG, but expected to dispatch leadership and other duties with the same professionalism.

    (Addressed as "First Sergeant")
    Principal NCO and life-blood of the company: the provider, disciplinarian and wise counselor. Instructs other SGTs, advises the Commander and helps train all enlisted Soldiers. Assists Officers at the company level (62 to 190 Soldiers).

    (Addressed as "Sergeant Major")
    SGMs experience and abilities are equal to that of the CSM, but the sphere of influence regarding leadership is generally limited to those directly under his charge. Assists Officers at the battalion level (300 to 1,000 Soldiers).

    (Addressed as " Command Sergeant Major")
    Functioning without supervision, a CSM’s counsel is expected to be calm, settled and accurate—with unflagging enthusiasm. Supplies recommendations to the commander and staff, and carries out policies and standards on the performance, training, appearance and conduct of enlisted personnel. Assists Officers at the brigade level (3,000 to 5,000 Soldiers).

    There’s only one Sergeant Major of the Army. This rank is the epitome of what it means to be a Sergeant and oversees all Non-Commissioned Officers. Serves as the senior enlisted advisor and consultant to the Chief of Staff of the Army (a four-star General).

    And then you have the Officer Ranks:

    (Addressed as "Lieutenant")
    Typically the entry-level rank for most Commissioned Officers. Leads platoon-size elements consisting of the platoon SGT and two or more squads (16 to 44 Soldiers).

    (Addressed as "Lieutenant")
    A seasoned lieutenant with 18 to 24 months service. Leads more specialized weapons platoons and indirect fire computation centers. As a senior Lieutenant, they are often selected to be the Executive Officer of a company-sized unit (110 to 140 personnel).

    (Addressed as "Captain")
    Commands and controls company-sized units (62 to 190 Soldiers), together with a principal NCO assistant. Instructs skills at service schools and combat training centers and is often a Staff Officer at the battalion level.

    (Addressed as "Major")
    Serves as primary Staff Officer for brigade and task force command regarding personnel, logistical and operational missions.

    (Addressed as "Lieutenant Colonel " or "Colonel")
    Typically commands battalion-sized units (300 to 1,000 Soldiers), with a CSM as principal NCO assistant. May also be selected for brigade and task force Executive Officer.

    (Addressed as "Colonel")
    Typically commands brigade-sized units (3,000 to 5,000 Soldiers), with a CSM as principal NCO assistant. Also found as the chief of divisional-level staff agencies.

    (Addressed as "General")
    Serves as Deputy Commander to the commanding general for Army divisions. Assists in overseeing the staff's planning and coordination of a mission.

    (Addressed as "General")
    Typically commands division-sized units (10,000 to 15,000 Soldiers).

    (Addressed as "General")
    Typically commands corps-sized units (20,000 to 45,000 Soldiers).

    (Addressed as "General")
    The senior level of Commissioned Officer typically has over 30 years of experience and service. Commands all operations that fall within their geographical area. The Chief of Staff of the Army is a four-star General.

    This is only used in time of War where the Commanding Officer must be equal or of higher rank than those commanding armies from other nations. The last officers to hold this rank served during and immediately following WWII.

    And last but not least you have Warrant Officers (gotta love your chopper pilots)

    The Army Warrant Officer is an adaptive technical expert, combat leader, trainer, and advisor. Through progressive levels of expertise in assignments, training, and education, the Warrant Officer administers, manages, maintains, operates, and integrates Army systems and equipment across the full spectrum of Army operations. Warrant Officers are formally addressed as either Mr. or Ms.

    Appointed by warrant from the Secretary of the Army. WO1s are technically and tactically focused officers who perform the primary duties of technical leader, trainer, operator, manager, maintainer, sustainer, and advisor.

    Chief Warrant Officers become commissioned officers as provided by the President of the United States. CW2s are intermediate level technical and tactical experts who perform increased duties and responsibilities at the detachment through battalion levels.
    Advanced-level experts who perform the primary duties that of a technical and tactical leader. They provide direction, guidance, resources, assistance, and supervision necessary for subordinates to perform their duties. CW3s primarily support operations levels from team or detachment through brigade.

    Senior-level experts in their chosen field. They primarily support battalion, brigade, division, corps, and echelons above corps operations. CW4s typically have special mentorship responsibilities for other WOs and provide essential advice to commanders on WO issues

  3. #3
    Thank you so much, that is perfect!

    /fiftycharactersarereallyhardtogetin/ Mods can grave this.

  4. #4
    You're very welcome!

  5. #5
    Stepping in to say I think the Auroras are more like an elite team of specialists. I'm sure there is indeed different ranks but it may be more out of years of service and knowledge and less about certain rankings. The pecking order is more along age lines with the older ones teaching the younger ones and passing on information and guiding them.

  6. #6
    I think the only Auror rank we know of is Head Auror.

    But I couldn't really see them as having complicated ranks. As sheltered_ambitions's said, they probably wern't many wizardings wars until Voldermort, other than goblin rebellions.

    I could see the Auror's only taking care of the actual capture, and 'muscle' stuff, while other departments take care of intelligence, planning, etc.

    I'd say there would be group leaders, like platoon comanders, and people in charge of certian elements (capture, holding, reconnaissance, and actual spellwork), but I stay by that it wouldn't be too complicated.

    Hope his helps, I couldn't help but reply, my brother does Army Cadets, so I hear about a lot of Army stuff, so it kind of spurred an interest.

  7. #7
    Sorry, I know you said this could be graved, but I need to chime in here.

    Primarily, these are *US Army* ranks. Which is fine (since you asked for *ARMY*), but you know, the services use slightly different titles for their ranks and I wouldn't want you to get confused later.

    Also, I'm not entirely sure what the British military system is, but I'm fairly certain you can either find it on the 'net or ask someone. I know it's not dramatically different, but there are some differences.

    Third, specialist (E-4) and corporal (E-4) are the same pay grade. A corporal is the most junior non-commissioned officer and technically outranks the specialist by virtue of being an NCO when the specialist is not, but they get paid the same for time in service as a specialist. The specialist position was created during the Vietnam war when they didn't want to make all junior enlisted personnel NCOs. I do not think ANY other military uses this title, and a lot of line units (infantry, artillery, army) don't use it either. Conversely, in some non-line or support units (intelligence, signal, medical, etc), there has to be a compelling reason to make someone a corporal over a specialist and it has to be approved at a fairly high level (I'm thinking brigade or higher? Sorry, it's been a while, and I don't have anyone I can ask off the top of my head.)

    Fourth, first sergeant (E-8) and master sergeant (E-8) are also the same pay grade. The difference is that the first sergeant is a command title, whereas master is not. I've seen sergeants first class (E-7) promoted to first sergeant in title, but retain their pay grade. Essentially, a first sergeant (colloquially referred to as "Top") is a senior enlisted soldier that's been put into the lead NCO position of a company, but when s/he started the job, s/he was most likely a master sergeant, and will most likely return to being a master sergeant after their tour is over, without any reduction in pay.

    Further, sergeants major and command sergeants major are also E-8s. The "Major" and "Command * Major" titles that have no effect on pay grade, and they are in charge of the soldiers in their command only. For instance, a first sergeant, sergeant major or command sergeant major can't go around randomly issuing commands to a master sergeant they encounter on the street or whatever, or claim to outrank them, because they don't. (Yes, it would be immediately obvious who held which title if they were in uniform because all E-8s have the same basic rank; the master sergeant is three chevrons and three rockers, the first sergeant has a diamond in the center, the sergeant major has a star, and the CSM has a star & wreath). However, a first sergeant, sergeant major or CSM *does* technically outrank a master sergeant in their command.

    Having said ALL THAT . . .

    I personally think the Aurors are more a police force . . . POSSIBLY even a military-style police force, but I do not think they are organised according to Muggle military or even police guidelines.

    Now, the Hit Wizards from the DMLE, I see as being a sort of SWAT team or even special operations style of group (think Delta Force, French Foreign Legion, etc), and while I could see them adopting a military structure, I highly doubt there are more than 25 of them on active service in all of Britain.

  8. #8

    Wow. Thanks for the extra info guys, I just realized people had been posting. Double thanks cmwinters, for the information on the ranks! Pause that graving for a second, mods!

    Having said ALL THAT . . .

    I personally think the Aurors are more a police force . . . POSSIBLY even a military-style police force, but I do not think they are organised according to Muggle military or even police guidelines.

    Now, the Hit Wizards from the DMLE, I see as being a sort of SWAT team or even special operations style of group (think Delta Force, French Foreign Legion, etc), and while I could see them adopting a military structure, I highly doubt there are more than 25 of them on active service in all of Britain.
    So wizards would never really fight an organized war? What kind of circumstances would force them to actually organize people? Would they draft common witches and wizards into the "army" if they needed to? Like you said, there are only a few Hit Wizards, and same goes for Aurors...

    Basically these questions are being raised because in one of my upcoming stories, various wizard-populations of different countries are clashing. Like, Britian vs. Bulgaria (for example). It isn't a wizards vs. one major enemy (like Voldemort) and his band of followers - it is two countries fighting. Would that warrant organized warfare?

  9. #9
    You know . . .

    I'm not sure anything would make them organise and fight, judging by how they behaved during the two civil wars we saw.

    There is no doubt that it was a civil war; two rival sides clashing for control with diametrically opposed ideology.

    Through it all, the Ministry seems to have kind of sat back and twiddled it's thumbs, even after Scrimgeour was put in charge.

    I mean, they sent out these useless little pamphlets and leaflets talking about how to counter an *individual*, and how to protect yourself so you didn't end up under attack, but they don't seem to have *done* much. Even after the Ministry was overthrown, it seems like the only response was from a few members of the Order and the trio.

    We don't hear anything about a draft or an Army during Grindelwald's time, either. In fact, once again it is Dumbledore to the rescue. It seems like the wizards of Britain and Germany otherwise stayed out of WWII.

    Now, you could potentially do a Muggle/Wizard combined war with one country against another, but I think you'd have to structure a whole different approach to magic, war magic and government organisation. Combat and defensive spells would have to be compulsory at Hogwarts. I think what a lot of the Death Eaters relied on was the apparent unwillingness of the common witch and wizard to defend themselves or even learn the magic. When you know spells to bind, freeze, compel, attack, torment and kill, and all your opponent knows is how to grow their nosehair into ringlets, then you're at a significant advantage. You can practically show up and say "BOO!" and they'll capitulate.

    The government would also have to make a series of announcements about the new way things are going to be. If they started a civil service program (kind of like the Universal National Service Act of 2003 bill that went before US Congress) and one of the programs could theoretically evolve into a draft Army, then they'd have to structure the pseudo-draft Army *first*, probably as a voluntary program, and then perhaps evolve it into a draft Army after some time. The other option is that it says voluntary, but then in a state of direct war gets turned into a draft.

  10. #10
    Might as well throw in my two knuts.

    The auror's job is to find individual Dark wizards, catch them, and throw them in Azkaban. Otherwise, as it's been pointed out, there be no army.

    The closest thing to a wizarding army is the Order of the Phoenix, and essenially, they were an army. They planned, observed, had spies, etc, etc. So, if you wanted to have an unorganized (not official) army, then you could carry on with the Order, or have a MC construct a new sort of "Order"

    I completely agree with CM on how you could go with having the Ministry put together the first wizarding army. If they were in need of one, I'm sure they would stop being passive and start being agressive. If Kingsley is around, you could have the Minister going to him for advice on how to start an army, since he was the Muggle Prime Minister's guard.

    There are two Departments in the Ministry that I think would be usefull in your story.

    Department of International Magical Cooporation
    and within it
    International Magical Office of Law

    I would assume that the Office of Law would deal with.. international laws. They would be the ones working for a treaty of sorts. If a truce was given at any point in your story, these are the guys who would be responsible for it.

    Department of Magical Law Enforcement
    There are many different offices in this Department, primarily -
    Magical Law Enforcement Squad

    (from the Lexicon: Employs "Hit Wizards" to handle dangerous criminals)

    You could have all members of the Law Enforcement Squad, and the aurors moved into the Army, along with any other willing men or women who wanted to fight. From there, the Ministry might recruit students/whomever to join said Departments and train for the army.

    Hope I helped a bit, and good luck!

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