Character Discussion - Ron Weasley

[apollo13]

You know, I was actually going to reply to that, but I forgot.

I think that, in essentials, Ron simply has natural instinct for when something is wrong. I think he may actually get this off his mother, who I think shares the same qualities.

Whether he actually acts on these instincts in an appropiate way or not is another matter. Ron is, as we have already said, the glue which holds the trio together, but, strangely, always seems rather reluctant to take a larger part in it.

Yes, I know that we have already discussed how he does want a more active role, and does want to do more with himself, and that may be what he wants on the surface, but, deep down, I think Ron is a little too shy. For instance, he never told Harry and Hermione why he didn't like using the name, and maybe that is born of his insecurities - maybe he's afraid they won't listen.

~Evie

[untitlednine]

Ron seems to be depicted as a fool in the movies and fandom, because in the books, he is occasionally depicted as stupid. However, most of the times he is 'acting like an idiot', he is actually just being a little clueless about the whole male/female relationship thing. Basically, he is just sometimes unable to realize that Hermione is a girl, and has different emotions then he and Harry. This is probably because he's grown up with 5 other males, and the only other girl was younger, therefore, still a child. He also seems a bit naiive when it comes to Ginny growing up.

I'd say Ron's most prized possession is his friendship with Hermione and Harry, and his little sis.

[Miss K]

I think Ron stops Harry and Hermione from saying Voldemort because he has heard stories all his life about the terrors of the first time when Voldemort was a presence in the wizarding world sixteen years ago. This isn't an instinctual action in DH -- he does it all throughout canon. I don't think Ron has natural instincts, to be honest. If you look at that action in context, it's pretty commonplace for Ron and doesn't stem from a nagging feeling of, "This could get us in trouble."

I'd agree with the idea mentioned that Ron seems to be a very moody, pessimistic boy. Compared to Harry's whangst in OOTP, we kind of forget about Ron's inherent pessimism. *giggle* He's no match for the screamo!Harry. But I'd also like to point out that I think a lot of Ron's pessimism comes from his insecurities. He's pessimistic about his siblings because he's afraid he'll never accomplish anything as great as they have. I think that as he grows in the books (especially at the end of DH where he has the girl, Hermione, and has everything he's wanted, a bit of glory and a bit of adventure), his insecurities fade. I think, along with that, though we never see it directly, so has most of his pessimism.

I, along with most of the people in this discussion, don't think Ron was mis-Sorted. I'll try not to repeat anything already said here. Basically, I think that we see Ron's loyalty because that trait is what makes him a crucial part of the Trio. As apollo13/Evie put it, Ron is "the glue that holds the Trio together" -- and his loyalty is what makes him the glue. All three of the Trio have more than enough bravery to spare. Ron has shown his bravery in every adventure in canon: from coming back in DH (It takes balls to come back and face friends you abandoned!) to allowing himself to be taken down in the chess game during Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone. I do think he belongs in Gryffindor; I also wish that fandom authors emphasized the bravery part of his character more. I think we really cut Ron short in fanfiction.

Harry is a reluctant hero. For the most part, he doesn't want to be the one that must always save others and such. Ron, on the other hand, wants that. This doesn't mean he's not brave or that he's foolish, more that he aspires to be the best.

I don't think I can agree with this. Ron wants to stand out from the crowd. I don't know if he truly wants to save people or carry the burdens that Harry does. He wants to be famous like Harry, this is true, but I don't think he's looking to be a hero. It's not an aspiration to be the best, either -- I really think the sole cause for his insecurities is his thought that he'll never be good enough to be an individual outside his family, and doing exactly that (be it via fame or smarts or athleticism) is his sole desire (not being a hero), as we see in the Mirror of Erised.

Ron is, as we have already said, the glue which holds the trio together, but, strangely, always seems rather reluctant to take a larger part in it.

Yes, I know that we have already discussed how he does want a more active role, and does want to do more with himself, and that may be what he wants on the surface, but, deep down, I think Ron is a little too shy. For instance, he never told Harry and Hermione why he didn't like using the name, and maybe that is born of his insecurities - maybe he's afraid they won't listen.

Not quite sure what you mean by "reluctant to take a larger part in it [the Trio]." Ron has never been an outside part of the Trio -- he's been one side of the triangle that makes up their friendship's dynamic. I don't think there's a way that he could take a larger part.

If you mean lead the Trio (as Harry does in canon), well, I don't think that comes from shyness. After all, Hermione, who isn't shy at all, doesn't lead the Trio, either. Harry is the natural-born leader, the hero, the one who's always been expected (and always has) beaten the odds and come out the winner.

Friendship dynamics aside, I don't think we could ever call Ron shy. He's brash, loud, and quick to action (speaks before he thinks, oftentimes). He's quick to anger and very proud. But shyness is not one of his characteristics, in my opinion. Being shy and being insecure are two very, very different things.

And...that's all I have for now, I think.

[Stubbornly_appeared]

I think Ron stops Harry and Hermione from saying Voldemort because he has heard stories all his life about the terrors of the first time when Voldemort was a presence in the wizarding world sixteen years ago. This isn't an instinctual action in DH -- he does it all throughout canon. I don't think Ron has natural instincts, to be honest. If you look at that action in context, it's pretty commonplace for Ron and doesn't stem from a nagging feeling of, "This could get us in trouble."

Well, Ron DOES have a 'natural' aversion to the name Voldemort in general, but by the end of HBP he seems at least passive to its use- Harry says it all of the time, and Hermione, too. I think maybe he was just shooken up after all of the stuff that had happened, he was generally irritated, and Jo needed a plot device.

I'd agree with the idea mentioned that Ron seems to be a very moody, pessimistic boy. Compared to Harry's whangst in OOTP, we kind of forget about Ron's inherent pessimism. *giggle* He's no match for the screamo!Harry. But I'd also like to point out that I think a lot of Ron's pessimism comes from his insecurities. He's pessimistic about his siblings because he's afraid he'll never accomplish anything as great as they have. I think that as he grows in the books (especially at the end of DH where he has the girl, Hermione, and has everything he's wanted, a bit of glory and a bit of adventure), his insecurities fade. I think, along with that, though we never see it directly, so has most of his pessimism.

Ron is pretty annoying and whiney. He is used to having what he needs provided to him, so when he is stripped of this in DH he tends to complain. The negativity, I think, comes from his insecurity. Because he is insecure, he tends to think that he is going to fail. Which would be pessimism by the book.

I, along with most of the people in this discussion, don't think Ron was mis-Sorted. I'll try not to repeat anything already said here. Basically, I think that we see Ron's loyalty because that trait is what makes him a crucial part of the Trio. As apollo13/Evie put it, Ron is "the glue that holds the Trio together" -- and his loyalty is what makes him the glue. All three of the Trio have more than enough bravery to spare. Ron has shown his bravery in every adventure in canon: from coming back in DH (It takes balls to come back and face friends you abandoned!) to allowing himself to be taken down in the chess game during Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone. I do think he belongs in Gryffindor; I also wish that fandom authors emphasized the bravery part of his character more.

Naw, Ron's a Toaster, all the way. He is often compelled to be loyal because of his bravery. He's got a lot of 'nerve' and a tad of chivalry'. Such innate characteristics like compassion and sympathy are usually prevalent in people, so if you're brave you might act on loyalty more. Ron might have been most loyal person in the world, but if he was so terribly afraid of spiders he wouldn't have gone with Harry into the Forbidden Forest in CoS.

If you mean lead the Trio (as Harry does in canon), well, I don't think that comes from shyness. After all, Hermione, who isn't shy at all, doesn't lead the Trio, either. Harry is the natural-born leader, the hero, the one who's always been expected (and always has) beaten the odds and come out the winner.

Friendship dynamics aside, I don't think we could ever call Ron shy. He's brash, loud, and quick to action (speaks before he thinks, oftentimes). He's quick to anger and very proud. But shyness is not one of his characteristics, in my opinion. Being shy and being insecure are two very, very different things.

I would even hazard a guess to say that Harry is the most shy member of the Trio, followed by Hermione and then Ron. Ron is very loudspoken- think of all those outbursts towards Snape and Malfoy. He's often nervous, though, when confronted with situations when he thinks he's going to make a fool of himself in front of others. Then, he might appear to be shy because he doesn't want to get up and show off because he's afraid he'll fail. But, later, I think, he realises that that is the only way he can prove himself; Ron yearns to gain the recognition he deserves.

-Stubby

[MissyQuill]

However, most of the times he is 'acting like an idiot', he is actually just being a little clueless about the whole male/female relationship thing. Basically, he is just sometimes unable to realize that Hermione is a girl, and has different emotions then he and Harry. This is probably because he's grown up with 5 other males

I agree with Jackie here. Ron would clearly be clueless about the opposite sex because a) he has never had any direct contact with them (Ginny and Mrs. Weasley don't count) and b) he, being the youngest in all the boys, wouldn't have gotten that much advice in the matter from his brothers as we was thought of as "Little Ronniekins".

We know that Fred and George gave him that book on how to charm witches but that was after he was a great deal older. Six years to be exact.

I'd say Ron's most prized possession is his friendship with Hermione and Harry, and his little sis.

Seconded. While Ron would rather barf slugs again then admit it, he does love his little sister to bits. It can even be said that he loves her more then her other brothers because he is directly above her in the family tree. Also, this surely provokes a desire to protect Ginny at all times which often results in huge fight between the two. While Ron means well, he is an elder brother and fails to realise that Ginny hates being mollycoddled like this.

=Sammy

[Marauder by Midnight]

It just tickles me pink to see the discussion that has been going on in this thread. I see that Ron's character has been carefully dissected by each participant While I'm late in doing this, I do want to respond to some of what you all said. Forgive me if I bring up a topic/post that had been discussed ages ago and had been left alone.

cirelondiel, in your response to the question what future has each fanon!Ron encountered in your experience, you say:

I don't think Ron would have earned good enough marks [to be an Auror], honestly.

Yet right before that answer, you say:

Canon!Ron, however is a lot smarter than he often gets credit for. There's nothing to suggest that he's a lot more hopeless in classes than Harry (indeed, Harry adknowledges that he's not really better than Ron in classes in OotP, when he's trying to work out why Ron was made prefect).

It seems like the two statements conflict each other. Harry being an Auror doesn't seem to bother you, so he probably is able to make the cut, so to speak. Yet if Ron isn't too much worse than Harry, as you point out, then why could he not have made it as an Auror based solely on marks?

On the topic of Ron's search for glory:

I agree - when he returns in DH, he says to Harry, "You make it sound a lot cooler than it really was," and Harry replies, "It always sounds cooler than it really was, I've been trying to tell you that for years."

That's a great quote you've got there. But it reminded me of this issue: could Ron have stuck by Harry not just for his companionship but also for a selfish-er reason? Ron knew if he stuck by Harry until the end, face all those terrible ordeals at Harry's side, he would gain the respect and glory that he so desired, even if he died. So could a part of Ron's "loyalty" be attributed to this selfish reason and if so, how much?

I think that Ron has this vision of Harry - a vision of a very clever, sneaky, always-understands-what's-going-on Harry, which is only true to a certain extent. So, of course, when Harry was lost, Ron was lost too, as Harry has always been the leader, and Ron was expecting him to lead.

But doesn't this promote the idea that Ron is the sidekick? Or are you agreeing that Ron is a sidekick and sort of disagreeing with what others have said before you about Ron being his own person?

On what Ron would see in the Mirror of Erised after DH:

Now, I think, when he looked into the mirror he would see (as Striped_Candycane said) his family safe and whole. Some people mentioned being with Hermione - yes, I think he'd see her and Harry (and maybe even some other friends?) alongside his family. After the epilogue, his main interest would probably be in being with his wife and children, with his family all round them.

Didn't Ron grow up in a family where family was emphasized as the first thing on anyone's agenda? No one except Ron seems to think differently about this philosophy. So why isn't his healthy, whole family the thing he saw when he first looked into the Mirror?

On Ron's relationship with Harry:

Ron doesn't understand that Harry doesn't care about being famous or want recognition- all Harry wants is to be free of his crushing destiny (and Voldemort) and a loving family that he can call his own. Harry doesn't get why Ron doesn't realise how much HE has, and why he wants to be famous (GoF and the Triwizard). Ron wants Harry's talents and 'name'. Harry wants Ron's family and normalacy. A right pair of battling tops, eh?

I think this only applies to Harry and Ron up to GoF. After that, particularly since Voldemort is resurrected, I don't think Ron places such a heavy emphasis on being like Harry. Ron's jealousy of Harry is not what drives him away during DH; in fact, it can be argued that it is the complete opposite of that - that Ron is tired of being Harry.

But up to GoF, I think this is what someone else was talking about when they said the trio complemented each other. Not including Hermione in this picture, wouldn't you say that this desire for what the other person has is what brings them closer together?

And even if Ron does do something well, it's not so impressive, because Bill or Charlie or someone's already done it.

Adding on to that, if Ron didn't do something his brothers had done, he's seen as a failure - if the others can do it, why can't he?

Nevertheless, he has had independent moments throughout the book. Not all of them have been positive; in fact, many of them have been times when he stood against his friends and family, but they have all caused him to grow as a character in both our minds and in the books themselves.

The examples of Ron being independent that you provided were all of Ron standing up against Harry and his family, which, in the reader's point of view, is bad and thus his independence shouldn't be a good character attribute. So do you have any examples of Ron being independent and "good"?

AAaand you did (Ron as Keeper)

In those specific moments, Ronald Bilius Weasley has stood apart from friends and family -- his deepest desire, according to the Mirror of Erised -- and we have managed to see what he would be like alone, independent of everything to which he is loyal.

His deepest desire according to the Mirror of Erised is not family and friends - it's being Head Boy and Quidditch Captain.

For me, I don’t think that Harry would have been able to complete his journey without either one of them.

May I just burst into song?
I've heard it said
That people come into our lives
For a reason
Bringing something we must learn
And we are led to those
Who help us most to grow
If we let them
If we help them in return.
Well I don't know if I
Believe that's true
But I know I'm who I am today
Because I knew you

In his defence, he came back and wanted to come back the moment he left but he went all the same. What is to say that he won't do it again. And to his wife and kids this time round.

What I think would keep Ron from running again is because he learned his lesson. Someone had earlier pointed out that Ron matured in DH - his leaving the trio was pre-mature!Ron while his coming back indicates a more grown-up Ron ready to fight his demons, so to speak. He came back because he saw how wrong he was in abandoning his friends (that loyalty trait everyone talks about). So why would he do that again, especially to his wife and kids?

On why Ron came back during DH:

After running off, I think he realises exactly how bad things are and what really needs to be done. Lemme losely quote Sirius here. He once said (I think), 'What was to be gained by fighting the most evil wizard of all time? Only innocent lives!'. I believe that, while Ron stayed at Shell Cottage, he realised what was at stake. He understood that he needed to push past his own feelings for once for the better of the whole, which is difficult for him because he feels that he's always ignored anyway. So he comes back, he faces his demons in the locket, and ends up as a much more mature Ron.

Hmm that's an interesting theory on the reason behind Ron's coming back. So far, I've read the Ron-came-back-he's-so-loyal version so many times that this is a refreshing change. This would also support the reason why Ron's a Gryffindor, right? The courage to put yourself aside and to fight for the greater good is hardly something, as you say, to sneeze at. But from the arguments and the evidence shown, I still think Ron's loyalty to Harry and/or his own personal gain is what played the biggest role in him coming back. He doesn't come back and say, "Yo, Harry, I'm not friends with you, but I still think we need to save the world. Truce?" Instead, he apologizes and admits he's wrong.

It has taken me forever and a day to decide how I'm going to distribute the points. I also felt like I needed to point out the key facts that each person has made. The bolded/underlined statements in each post are the statements/opinions that earned you the points as far as strength of argument goes.

The thread has been reopened for continuing discussion on Ron but not for points. Here are the tallied points along with some commentary:

Stubbornly_Appeared: 39 points for 8 posts. There were several good points that you brought up in your posts and sometimes provided very good evidence to back it up. You definitely stuck by your opinions and was able to argue them very eloquently. However, there were several posts that you made (I believe 4) where you simply repeated what another person said in your own words.
LucillaJoanna: 22 points for 2 posts. Being one of the first people to post, you were able to bring up very good points that were later used in the discussion, and you clarified your first post very well in your second post. However, because you didn't follow up on this thread, you weren't able to address the issues some people brought up about your posts and therefore you were unable to fully defend your opinion.
A.H.: 25 points for 3 posts. You addressed a question about your post very well. You also made a valiant attempt to revive the thread with a new question of your own. However, most of what you said needed some elaboration which you didn't provide.
cirelondiel: 35 points for 3 posts. You brought up some excellent points that you were supported very well with examples from the series. You also put forth a question that became a key theme discussed in the thread. Very well done.
Striped_Candycane: 43 points for 6 posts. My only Ravenclaw! You make very good points in every single post. You also answered to any issues people had with the points you made with more supporting evidence. The question you asked to try to revive the thread didn't carry far though.
apollo13: 42 points for 11 posts. My only Slytherin! You were so active during the points part of this discussion, and you showed an interest in a diversity of the topics presented. However, there were a couple posts you had made where you didn't show as much conviction toward you opinion; the arguments made then weren't as strong as your other posts, and they were often slightly confusing.
MissyQuill: 35 points for 4 posts. You showed strength and conviction in your arguments. You addressed issues that others had with points you made, though at times your answering post was not as strong as your first post or your "challenger'"'s post.
Miss K: 34 points for 4 posts. You obstinately stood by your opinions of Ron and were able to provide a lot of support evidence. Your question on Ron's "mis-Sorting" was a good topic to bring up, though everyone agreed with you and didn't provide a huge "challenge" to your theory. However, there were some inconsistencies between your posts, and the first post you made was more of an essay rather than a discussion.
padfoot_returns: 20 points for 2 posts. You made some very good points about Ron's behavior during DH. A few more posts along that line would've been great. There was, however, one point where you slightly contradicted yourself and would've needed a more elaborate explanation.
go go ravenclaw: 12 points for 2 posts. You made some great points in your first post. However, most of your first post and your second post was spent reiterating what others had said before you.

Those are all the participants I have noted. I provided an explanation as to why I gave you the points I did. While I will not change points solely because you felt you deserved more points, you are welcome to PM me and clarify why you got the points you did. That, I think, is only fair.

Points will be added to the House Points thread when I'm finished judging Fiction Junction's activity

In the meantime, if anyone wants to continue this excellent thread, please feel free to do so.

[apollo13]

That's a great quote you've got there. But it reminded me of this issue: could Ron have stuck by Harry not just for his companionship but also for a selfish-er reason? Ron knew if he stuck by Harry until the end, face all those terrible ordeals at Harry's side, he would gain the respect and glory that he so desired, even if he died. So could a part of Ron's "loyalty" be attributed to this selfish reason and if so, how much?

It's certianly a possibility. However, I think that if this were true, it would be highly unlikely that Ron would have stuck with Harry through DH (Yes, I know he left for a bit, but that is a different matter, and he came back in the end, didn't he?) and the rather dangerous and difficult times. He would have been more like Romilda Vane, and would trail around after Harry when times were good, but never really stick with him.

But doesn't this promote the idea that Ron is the sidekick? Or are you agreeing that Ron is a sidekick and sort of disagreeing with what others have said before you about Ron being his own person?

No, what I meant was that Ron looks up to Harry very greatly, which is not really the same thing as being a side-kick.
Although Ron is somewhat of a side-kick, the same could be said for Hermione, if this is the case. The same could be said for any of Harry's friends, in fact.

I think a defination of side kick is needed here. Are we talking about side-kick in the superhero sense here? The bumbling, useless, almost groupie-like superhero?

I'm all for continuing with this! It's great fun! Are we going to have a new character discussion?

~Evie

[Striped_Candycane]

Ooo, this thread is open again ! I hadn’t even noticed...

That's a great quote you've got there. But it reminded me of this issue: could Ron have stuck by Harry not just for his companionship but also for a selfish-er reason? Ron knew if he stuck by Harry until the end, face all those terrible ordeals at Harry's side, he would gain the respect and glory that he so desired, even if he died. So could a part of Ron's "loyalty" be attributed to this selfish reason and if so, how much?

As apollo13 said, I do doubt that Ron would have stuck by Harry if he had only selfish reasons. Although I do think there could be a small percentage of selfishness, especially before he left in Deathly Hallows, he probably wouldn’t have come back or stayed when things got really hard.

I’m also going to guess that this percentage of selfishness is a relatively small one, because I really don’t see Ron as that manipulative and calculating. He isn’t constantly thinking “well, I’ll do this because eventually, when we finally win this thing, I’ll have limitless glory,” simply because he doesn’t necessarily look that far ahead.

But then again, we never really know what goes on in Ron’s head. We always see him through Harry’s POV. Who knows what he’s brewing up under the innocent exterior?

Didn't Ron grow up in a family where family was emphasized as the first thing on anyone's agenda? No one except Ron seems to think differently about this philosophy. So why isn't his healthy, whole family the thing he saw when he first looked into the Mirror?

Because with Ron, I think it always comes down to maturity. As we said before, Molly has always spoiled him, and so he looks to what he hasn’t got, which was why he didn’t see his whole, healthy family the first time.

And, after all, why should he? The Mirror shows, as we know well, your deepest desire. Why on earth would he desire his family to be whole and happy when it already was? When he matures a bit and his family is broken apart by the War, he no longer has that whole and happy family, and so only then would he be able to see them in the Mirror.

I agree with apollo13, we really should have more discussions like this...they're so much fun!

[SnowyHedwig112]

Canon!Ron, however is a lot smarter than he often gets credit for. There's nothing to suggest that he's a lot more hopeless in classes than Harry (indeed, Harry adknowledges that he's not really better than Ron in classes in OotP, when he's trying to work out why Ron was made prefect).

(Someone has probably already said something similar to this, but....oh well). Ron is simply ordinary, and, at times, almost the cliche sidekick to the hero. But of course, he's not. He falls into that archetype at times, but we're all human, and so is he, and he really can't help the fact that in GoF, he gets jealous of Harry, thinking that his Boy-Who-Lived-ness has gone to his head and he really just wants all the glory.

The problem being that Ron's moments are largely composed of him being dense, and while he does have a few of his hero moments (e.g. SS, during the chess game), he is largely remembered as a pretty comical character in the minds of the casual Harry Potter fan.

....If that made any sense at all.

~Kathy

[Azhure]

I agree with Kathy. Ron is not the intelligent Hermione Granger or The-Boy-Who-Lived. He is Ronald Weasley. In my opinion he is like the 'glue' for the trio - he keeps them all together.

Remember in GoF where Harry and Ron aren't talking? This also puts strain on Harry and Hermione's friendship. They spend all of their time in the Library and Harry ends up longing for Ron's company. Harry eventually drifts away from Hermione as well. Another example is in DH. Ron left Harry and Hermione when they were on the run from the Death Eaters. Harry and Hermione barely talked during this time. They needed Ron there as well.

Without Ron, there is no trio, there isn't even a duo.

Ron is also quite strategically minded. The incident in PS/SS with the giant chess pieces is a classic example. He also has the plan in DH involving the Ministry.

He is not as useless as many people in fanfiction make him out to be.

I will add more later when I have time (if I remember, of course).

~~Azhure~~