Character Discussion - Ron Weasley

[MissyQuill]

Bethical, please don't shoot me for being spammy but I have this sorting discussion I was having with Elmindreda over at her thread in the Great Hall and though it was originally about Severus Snape, I think this could really shed light on some sorting issues with Ron.

Dumbledore said that he is a braver man then most and that sometimes they "sort too soon". You take?

I'll treat this statement in parts, shall I?

Braver than most - definitely yes. To do what he did requires amazing courage.
"Courage to do the right thing. Courage without pride. Possibly, the rarest kind." Couldn't help but quote myself.

"Sort too soon". Now this is a problem. Sorting in general can be. Or at least, when it's viewed stereotypically. I mean... whoever would say that Cedric Diggory was not brave? Wasn't Luna brave? Wasn't Pettigrew, ultimately, a coward?
And it's not just about bravery, but all sort of personality traits... We have a nasty Hufflepuff Smith, a Ravenclaw-quality smart Hermione... and we have a brave Slytherin.
The notion of "sorting too soon" seems to indicate that only Gryffindors can be brave, and by virtue of being brave one gets to be a sort of honorary Gryffindor. The idea of Severus being one such is too close to the general 'maligned angel' image, which I don't agree with.

The Gryffindorian kind of courage, I believe, is definitely a kind that involves pride, and Gryffindors are prone to get on the high Hippogryff now and then.

Personally, I think that the 11-year-old Severus could have gone to any House (as, ultimately, ANY person at all, if we judge on personality traits, not preconceived images of the Houses and the sortees' wishes). He certainly was bright and studious enough to be a Ravenclaw, and, yes, he could have been a Gryffindor, and he was capable of loyalty that Hufflepuff would value (see also: Lily). Why Slytherin then? Maybe because the wish to prove himself was stronger than the rest of them. It is still an interesting issue that I ponder regularly.

So the answer, I guess, will be such. "Sort too soon" - yes, but posibly in reference to sorting in general. "Missorted" - hardly.

I agree with this statement as Ron, whatever his flows were, was brave enough to be a Gryffindor, loyal enough to be a Hufflepuff, even ambitious enough to be a Slytherin and smart (which does not just mean academically outstanding) enough for a Ravenclow.

Why Gryffindor then. Well, first and foremost, "the hat takes your wish in consideration" and Ron would of course want to be sorted in the same House just to prove that he is as good as his family. Also, in all his personality traits, it can be said that bravery was foremost and "stronger then the rest of them" as El put it so eloquently.

As far as the view of sorting of the fandom at large, we often tend to think highly of a house we most relate to are are moat likely to go in/want to be sorted into.

I think we would obviously give that house in question more importance as it is so much harder to be an unbiased judge that way. For instance while all houses are great, a Gryffindor will maintain to their deathbed that theirs is the best house and a Ravenclow, Hufflepuff and Slytherin will do the same. The fandom is made up of a number of different individual with their own perception of what a house should be and why and this largely influences the way we see the characters shown in the books.

So, to sum it up, no, I don’t think the hat made a mistake but I do think that Ron has qualities other then that of a toaster. He has his bad moments but who doesn’t but that does not mean he doesn’t deserve to be in Gryffindor. As far the fandom, we are many people with many views and can’t possibly agree with each other on a character so we are not mistaken, more opinionated perhaps.

[apollo13]

Absolutely, Zara Ravenwood. Both Harry and Ron are pretty proud indviduals, and it takes a lot to admit you're wrong.

Ron could easily have turned his apology into a "I'm sorry, but..." I hate those apologies, because the person is not really apologising then, they're shifting the blame. But Ron realised that what he had done was wrong, and he was brave enough to admit it, which takes so courage.

It is not only in DH Ron has done that, though - he also did it in GOF. Ron has this incrediable ability to realise and admit things - he is, actually, incrediably honest.

~Evie

[Stubbornly_appeared]

I'm bored, so I'm just going to rant about Ron! How fun!

To tell you the truth, Ron isn't my favourite character. Not even in the top 5. He annoys the heck out of me. I mean, he was okay before DH, but his CONSTANT MOANING completey miffed me off. Come on, Ron, grow up!

But I should cut him some slack, shouldn't I? He's never not had someone caring for him. It's his first time 'on his own', and it's a radical change. Plus, he splinched up his arm, is wearing a Horcrux, and thinks that the girl he loves is with his best friend. That tends to put a damper on your camper.

His immaturity climaxes during his huge argument with Harry in 'The Goblin's Revenge'. Ron simply doesn't understand that Harry does care, he's just being realistic. He's channeling his hurt and confused feelings into anger towards him, but after all, they're both only human. After running off, I think he realises exactly how bad things are and what really needs to be done. Lemme losely quote Sirius here. He once said (I think), 'What was to be gained by fighting the most evil wizard of all time? Only innocent lives!'. I believe that, while Ron stayed at Shell Cottage, he realised what was at stake. He understood that he needed to push past his own feelings for once for the better of the whole, which is difficult for him because he feels that he's always ignored anyway. So he comes back, he faces his demons in the locket, and ends up as a much more mature Ron.

He lacks any confidence in himself for the most part in the first five or so books. The whole 'Weasley is our king' incident didn't work wonders, and with the Lavendar escapade and everything he emerges from book six a few steps down the road of discovery, but not many. Ron's learned that he CAN do things ON HIS OWN- something he figured out on the Quidditch pitch and fighting Death Eaters- but that he still isn't 'good enough' (he thinks) in Hermione's eyes.

Like I said, though, after DH he's a very different person. Ron's still got a bit of growing up to do, but altogether he's become more independent and confident. He progresses smoothly as a character and is practically a study in 'coming into his own', so to speak.

-Stubby

[Striped_Candycane]

I agree that Ron was not missorted, not only because of the points mentioned above, but also because Ron, like any other person, is a mixture of different traits. I think there is not one person who is 100% brave and chivalrous and nothing else; even the most outstanding Gryffindor will obviously have traits from other houses because that is what people are: a fabric of different personality characteristics. It would be absurd to have someone who was only brave or chivalrous.

And I also think his bravery is greatly underestimated in the books. I don’t think he left in DH because he chickened out, on the contrary, he left because he was frustrated by the lack of action. He sacrificed himself so that Harry could get to the Sorcerer’s stone in the first year. He ventured into the Forbidden Forest to “follow the spiders” even though they were one of his worst fears. He went to the Department of Mysteries along with the rest of Dumbledore’s Army. He had the bravery to come back after a massive argument and dived into a freezing lake to save Harry. He opened a Horcrux and destroyed it even as it was showing him his innermost insecurities. He fought at the battle of Hogwarts and even finished Greyback off. If all of this does not include a minimum of bravery in addition to loyalty, then I do not know what does.

Let us not confuse the movie Ron, who constantly looks as if he is about to die of fright, and the Ron in the books, who I think is constantly showing the Gryffindor trait of bravery.

There was also an other point about Ron I wanted to bring up that was discussed on MuggleCast recently...

In DH, Ron constantly stops Harry from saying the word “Voldemort”, even before the trio knew it was taboo, and therefore stops them from being captured more than once. This shows a strange instinct for what would get them into trouble, because Ron, even when uncomfortable when hearing the name in other books, is not so definitely against them saying it. Therefore:

What role, if any, do you think Ron’s instinct plays in the books? What does this trait add to the Trio? Is it the result of being in a Wizarding family, or something else?

~Veronica

[go go ravenclaw]

Do you think the Sorting Hat made a mistake or that we (as in the fandom at large) have the wrong impression of Ron as a character?

I think that it could be a little of both. We might have the wrong impression about Ron, because remember how he wanted out in DH? Like MissyQuill said, is that the depth of his loyalty? Food? And how could he talk about Harry and Hermione's parents like that?

'My parents are DEAD!' bellowed Harry.

'AND MINE COULD BE GOING THE SAME WAY TOO!'

See how insensitive he is?

But the Sorting Hat, seeing that he was a Weasley, could have assumed that he, too, was brave, like all his brothers. To quote the movie,

Sorting Hat: Ha! Another Weasley. I know JUST what to do with you. GRYFFINDOR!

If this is the discrimination the fantastic thing keeps, we can't hope much, can we? FOr instance, don't you think Percy would have fit better in Ravenclaw or Slytherin, based on his bias of the Ministry and love of studies?

'And he said -he said thats the reason -you know -why we've never had a lot of money...'

Ron in OotP.

Does that tell you something? But lets get off Percy.Back to Ron. The Sorting Hat could be mistaken, or maybe its just us!

Until then, check out my beta thread, brand new!

Beth: 5 points off for not reading the rules of the forum

[Striped_Candycane]

My parents are DEAD!' bellowed Harry.

'AND MINE COULD BE GOING THE SAME WAY TOO!'

See how insensitive he is?

Very insensitive. But also very sensible.

Ron is simply looking forwards rather than backwards. Quite frankly, as much as it may bother Harry that his parents are dead, the fact remains that they are still...well, dead. Harry doesn't need to worry about them because they are long gone to paradise, if you believe in that sort of thing. Ron, on the other hand, has parents that are still very much alive and very much at risk. In addition, he doesn't even know what's going on, he has no idea if his family is alive and well, and is just sitting in a camp in a strange place twiddling his thumbs as far as he's concerned. I'm not saying that Ron was right in leaving Harry and Hermione, I'm just saying that he had reasons beyond the realms of "bad food".

[apollo13]

Sorting Hat: Ha! Another Weasley. I know JUST what to do with you. GRYFFINDOR!

If this is the discrimination the fantastic thing keeps, we can't hope much, can we? FOr instance, don't you think Percy would have fit better in Ravenclaw or Slytherin, based on his bias of the Ministry and love of studies?

Do not confuse the books with the movies. We don't know what the hat told Ron in the books, because the hat speaks inside the wearers head.

Yes, Percy might well be suited to Ravenclaw for his cleverness, but then so would Hermione. He might well be ambitious like a Slytherin, but so is Hermione. The thing which seperates these two characters, and I think it is the same for Ron, is that their bravery overtakes their smartness and ambition - for instance, Percy came back and fought in the battle of Hogwarts in the end.

We might have the wrong impression about Ron, because remember how he wanted out in DH? Like Sammy said, is that the depth of his loyalty? Food? And how could he talk about Harry and Hermione's parents like that?

You must remember that he had a piece of Voldemorts soul hanging around his neck, and it was a very troubled time. Even Harry said some nasty things, even before the locket - remember how he treated Lupin?

And I also think his bravery is greatly underestimated in the books. I don’t think he left in DH because he chickened out, on the contrary, he left because he was frustrated by the lack of action.

Yes! Exactly! Harry is a reluctant hero. For the most part, he doesn't want to be the one that must always save others and such. Ron, on the other hand, wants that. This doesn't mean he's not brave or that he's foolish, more that he aspires to be the best.

~Evie

[MissyQuill]

And I also think his bravery is greatly underestimated in the books. I don’t think he left in DH because he chickened out, on the contrary, he left because he was frustrated by the lack of action.

So we can definately add 'patience' to the list of Ron's characteristics.

And yes, carrying Vildemort's soul may have had a huge impact on Ron but the point remains that Harry and Hermione were wearing the locket for just as long as he was.

I know that it has been said that Ron had more insecurities then Harry and Hermione but really. When it comes down to it, is it really that hard a life where you have a huge, loving (even if not rich) family? Or can Ron only dwell on the negative. He always sees the bad side of having so many siblings while Harry would love to have a big family. Hermione too for that matter as her family is really small. Ron says his brothers to be overshadowing while Hermione (if she had them) would have learned from them.

And yes, the Weasleys were poor but they weren't starving. They had a house, regular meals, clothes etc. Though they didn't have brand new things, they always had enough.

However, Ron always looked at the darker side. Instead of beeing proud to be part of a big family, he felt overshadowed and left out. Instead of being happy with a family who loved you unconditionally, he felt smothered. I'm sure he loved his family a lot but he was never the one to actualy admit it to your face type. Harry even said that Ron's family is not like his own but is his own and yet we don't see Rom making these heartfelt gestures.

The reason, he had had them his whole life long and therefore, always takes them for granted.=Sammy

[apollo13]

Yes, I must admit that Ron is very pessimistic. He does tend to look at the bad side of things, and can be very moody.

I think that this may be because he is spoilt.

Spoilt? I hear you cry, spoilt? How can he be spoilt when his family is poor?

Well, just as MissyQuill says, the Weasley's were never so deeply in poverty that they were starving. He has grown up with massive meals, fine food and a loving family. His mother smothers him just as she smothers all of her sons. Now, like any spoilt child, Ron looks at what he hasn't got, rather than what he has got.

The things he hasn't got are material items and respect - if you think about it, he and Percy were nearly always the brunt of Fred and Georges jokes, and he was constantly ignored when Harry's around. So, naturally, these are the things he craves.

~Evie

[Striped_Candycane]

Well, just as MissyQuill says, the Weasley's were never so deeply in poverty that they were starving. He has grown up with massive meals, fine food and a loving family. His mother smothers him just as she smothers all of her sons. Now, like any spoilt child, Ron looks at what he hasn't got, rather than what he has got.

The things he hasn't got are material items and respect - if you think about it, he and Percy were nearly always the brunt of Fred and Georges jokes, and he was constantly ignored when Harry's around. So, naturally, these are the things he craves.

Exactly! Even though I don't think it is necessarily a spoilt child who looks to what he hasn't got rather than he has got, Ron certainly does. Even though I do think that Ron probably got the least amount of attention in the family (being the youngest son but not the youngest of all), Mrs. Weasley definitely has more than enough love to go around, and Ron is sure to have received more than most children do. This ultimately makes the scene in DH so much harder for him, because it is very unlike the warmth and comfort he experiences at home.

In case anyone missed the question in my previous post, here it is again:

In DH, Ron constantly stops Harry from saying the word “Voldemort”, even before the trio knew it was taboo, and therefore stops them from being captured more than once. This shows a strange instinct for what would get them into trouble, because Ron, even when uncomfortable when hearing the name in other books, is not so definitely against them saying it. Therefore:

What role, if any, do you think Ron’s instinct plays in the books? What does this trait add to the Trio? Is it the result of being in a Wizarding family, or something else?