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Thread: Character Discussion - Ron Weasley

  1. #21
    apollo13
    Guest
    Ooooh, yes, I'm pretty angry about that editorial...

    Firstly, Ron and Harry had some rocky patches in their friendship - can anyone here honestly say that they have never had a large arguement with a friend? The author of this editorial forgets that Harry and Hermione go through rough patches too, and that there are many moments where Harry is irratated by her.

    To add to that, Ron and Harry's friendship is bound to be under serious strain a lot - both are, in my opinion, jealous of the other, but neither can see why the other is jealous of them. On top of that, Ron has always wanted to make something of himself, to prove himself, which, while in his first year looks a bit selfish at first, I don't think it's a personality flaw at all. So, he has ambition, so what?

    I agree that, as the books went on Ron did become increasingly... tetchy... however, he is a teenager. Hormones running high, plus the exams and that minor issue of being almost in the middle of a full blown war. I mean, can you really blame him?

    ~Evie

  2. #22
    cirelondiel
    Guest
    Going back to the Mirror of Erised question...

    Quote Originally Posted by Striped_Candycane
    I personally think he would see his family as whole and happy, before the shock of Fred's death, the loss of George's ear, and Bill's scars.
    I agree.

    The mirror shows (paraphrasing Dumbledore) your deepest desire, and the happiest man in the world would see himself exactly as he is. When Ron was in first year, he just wanted some recognition - the mirror showed him being Head Boy, Quidditch Captain and so on, but I think it was representing his desire for glory, rather than specific desires. Take being Head Boy - he would have only wanted that for the glory, not because he wanted to be a leader and to have the responsibility. *hopes this is making sense* After the war, he's matured a lot and definitely come to realise how important his family is to him. After being so involved with the defeat of Voldemort, he's probably being hailed as a hero. Now that he's got the fame he always wanted, he wouldn't be so preoccupied on the idea, and would also realise that it doesn't equal happiness. Now, I think, when he looked into the mirror he would see (as Striped_Candycane said) his family safe and whole. Some people mentioned being with Hermione - yes, I think he'd see her and Harry (and maybe even some other friends?) alongside his family. After the epilogue, his main interest would probably be in being with his wife and children, with his family all round them.

    Now, about that editorial...
    I agree with Striped_Candycane, Harry has two best friends. They each bring something valuable to the trio and are both very important to Harry! Full stop. In fact I think the author's method of 'testing' who was the better friend was inherently flawed. I don't think an outsider can count how many things people have done for or to someone and make a judgement on how valuable a friend they are. And the author definitely left out several examples of Harry and Hermione's relationship being strained.

    Quote Originally Posted by apollo13
    To add to that, Ron and Harry's friendship is bound to be under serious strain a lot - both are, in my opinion, jealous of the other, but neither can see why the other is jealous of them.
    Yes, and this is bound to result in more arguments. Hermione's never been competitive with or jealous of the boys like they were with each other, so it was probably easier for her to not get fed up and behave selfishly, thinking the other person is being stupid and that she's the only one who has anything to envy.

    Quote Originally Posted by apollo13
    I agree that, as the books went on Ron did become increasingly... tetchy... however, he is a teenager. Hormones running high, plus the exams and that minor issue of being almost in the middle of a full blown war. I mean, can you really blame him?
    No, you can't! All three of the trio have had their share of tetchiness throughout the books. The author blamed Ron for almost every fight he and Harry ever had, seeming to think that Ron should always have taken responsibility and been more supportive of Harry. Well... it takes two to tango. Harry was often just as stubborn as Ron in refusing to make up. And even though Harry was the member of the trio with the biggest problems, that doesn't mean that the other two are just there to support him. Harry needs to be a friend to them as well.

    (some more jumbled thoughts from...)
    ~ Chelsea

  3. #23
    Stubbornly_appeared
    Guest

    Ron, Ron, Ron Weasley!

    Quote Originally Posted by cirelondiel
    I agree with Striped_Candycane, Harry has two best friends. They each bring something valuable to the trio and are both very important to Harry! Full stop. In fact I think the author's method of 'testing' who was the better friend was inherently flawed. I don't think an outsider can count how many things people have done for or to someone and make a judgement on how valuable a friend they are. And the author definitely left out several examples of Harry and Hermione's relationship being strained.
    Exactly- Harry, Ron, and Hermione are a trio, not a duo with someone else playing backup fiddle. Conflicts between Ron and Harry are more apparent because they're infrequent yet big; squabbles with Hermione are brief but quite ubiquitous. Look at how much Ron and Hermione fight: they're constantly at eachother's throats but end up married. Every relationship (platonic or romantic) has its rough spots. Like we've said before, though, Ron is very loyal and comes back even after the worst of times, like in DH.

    Quote Originally Posted by apollo13
    To add to that, Ron and Harry's friendship is bound to be under serious strain a lot - both are, in my opinion, jealous of the other, but neither can see why the other is jealous of them.
    Ron doesn't understand that Harry doesn't care about being famous or want recognition- all Harry wants is to be free of his crushing destiny (and Voldemort) and a loving family that he can call his own. Harry doesn't get why Ron doesn't realise how much HE has, and why he wants to be famous (GoF and the Triwizard). Ron wants Harry's talents and 'name'. Harry wants Ron's family and normalacy. A right pair of battling tops, eh?

    -Stubby

  4. #24
    apollo13
    Guest
    Ron doesn't understand that Harry doesn't care about being famous or want recognition- all Harry wants is to be free of his crushing destiny (and Voldemort) and a loving family that he can call his own. Harry doesn't get why Ron doesn't realise how much HE has, and why he wants to be famous (GoF and the Triwizard). Ron wants Harry's talents and 'name'. Harry wants Ron's family and normalacy. A right pair of battling tops, eh?
    Exactly! And I think it was a big shock to Ron when he realised what comes with being the Boy Who Lived. I don't think Ron ever wanted Harry's history, but he wanted the same amount of fame and recognition, which, although it is a fault, occurs in a hell of a lot of teenagers and indeed adults. There are so many people who want fame for doing nothing - the people who go on Big Brother are one extreme example.

    However, I think that this is born of Ron being the sixth child. I can actually (and it pains me to say this) imagine him being a bit of a disappointment to his mother. She would not have shown it, but children can pick things up very easily, and we see what he thinks about the whole ordeal in DH when he destroys the locket. (btw, I know this is really off topic, but can anyone tell me what happened to the cup?! Or am I missing something really obvious?)

    Molly obviously craved a daughter, and after six sons, you can imagine how desperate she must have been. If you look at it logically, Ron is undoubtedly the kid who got the least attention:

    Bill: Eldest child, first born son, would have got loads of attention.
    Charlie: Second child, would still have recieved a lot of attention.
    Percy: Extremely studious, opinionated and intelligent - the sort of kid who comes home with gold stars on his chest smiling smugly while Mum ruffles his hair. There's nothing wrong with that, but you know, they get a lot of attention...
    Fred and George: Funny, naughty - would have got TONS of attention. Maybe a lot of it would have been getting told off, but it is still attention.
    Ginny: Daughter, which Molly craved. Youngest, would have got loads of attention.

    And then there's Ron, who is pretty average, and actually rather quiet when compared to the rest of his family.

    No, you can't! All three of the trio have had their share of tetchiness throughout the books. The author blamed Ron for almost every fight he and Harry ever had, seeming to think that Ron should always have taken responsibility and been more supportive of Harry. Well... it takes two to tango. Harry was often just as stubborn as Ron in refusing to make up. And even though Harry was the member of the trio with the biggest problems, that doesn't mean that the other two are just there to support him. Harry needs to be a friend to them as well.
    I agree totally - I hate those fics where the entire thing is just Ron and Hermione feeling sorry for Harry. Yeah, of course they're going to feel sorry for him, but they have feelings and needs of their own too, and its not like they've never been in dangerous and traumatic situations. Not as bad as Harry, but they were around too.

    ~Evie

  5. #25
    cirelondiel
    Guest
    Someone wrote an editorial in response to hpboy13's 'Hermione's-a-better-friend-than-Ron' one. You can find it here: http://www.mugglenet.com/editorials/...impeyh01.shtml

    It pretty much sums up everything we've been saying on this matter - that Ron and Hermione are both good friends to Harry, they just have different fears and flaws.

    Quote Originally Posted by apollo13
    Molly obviously craved a daughter, and after six sons, you can imagine how desperate she must have been. If you look at it logically, Ron is undoubtedly the kid who got the least attention:

    Bill: Eldest child, first born son, would have got loads of attention.
    Charlie: Second child, would still have recieved a lot of attention.
    Percy: Extremely studious, opinionated and intelligent - the sort of kid who comes home with gold stars on his chest smiling smugly while Mum ruffles his hair. There's nothing wrong with that, but you know, they get a lot of attention...
    Fred and George: Funny, naughty - would have got TONS of attention. Maybe a lot of it would have been getting told off, but it is still attention.
    Ginny: Daughter, which Molly craved. Youngest, would have got loads of attention.

    And then there's Ron, who is pretty average, and actually rather quiet when compared to the rest of his family.
    Exactly right. And because Ginny was born quite soon after Ron, he didn't even get to have a couple of years of being the youngest, being the baby and having lots of attention lavished on him. He was replaced pretty quickly.

    And even if Ron does do something well, it's not so impressive, because Bill or Charlie or someone's already done it. (I believe Ron said something along those lines somewhere in the books, but I can't think where). Ron gets onto the Quidditch team - well, Charlie and Fred and George already did that. Ron is made a prefect - he is congratulated and fussed over, but not as much as he would have been if three older brothers hadn't already done that, and probably not nearly as much as Bill must have been when he got the badge! Say Ron had earned twelve O.W.L.s - it still wouldn't have been as impressive to his parents as it would have originally been when Bill did it, because they've seen it more than once now. Actually, come to think of it, whenever Ron did any of these things, it probably would have been "Oh, Ron, just like Bill/Charlie/Percy...!" Even when he achieves, he's compared to his older brothers, rather than appreciated for himself. Poor Ron

    I think Ron probably feels somewhat that this lack of attention is manifested physically in all the hand-me-down possessions he's got. When Bill went to Hogwarts, he probably got new robes, new books, the lot (the Weasleys could have afforded new things when there was only one child to send to school, not up to four or five!). Charlie also would have gotten new things, since Bill would have needed most of his stuff still. But by the time we get to Ron, and several older brothers have left school or outgrown their things from earlier years, there's plenty of old things in adequate condition around the house, so he gets those. Even his pet is a cast-off from a brother who got something newer and better for being made prefect! Most of the things he owns just represent, to him, his biggest insecurity - the fact that he's not special in any way and doesn't get any attention.

    Quote Originally Posted by apollo13
    Ron doesn't understand that Harry doesn't care about being famous or want recognition- all Harry wants is to be free of his crushing destiny (and Voldemort) and a loving family that he can call his own. Harry doesn't get why Ron doesn't realise how much HE has, and why he wants to be famous (GoF and the Triwizard). Ron wants Harry's talents and 'name'. Harry wants Ron's family and normalacy. A right pair of battling tops, eh?
    Exactly! And I think it was a big shock to Ron when he realised what comes with being the Boy Who Lived. I don't think Ron ever wanted Harry's history, but he wanted the same amount of fame and recognition, which, although it is a fault, occurs in a hell of a lot of teenagers and indeed adults. There are so many people who want fame for doing nothing - the people who go on Big Brother are one extreme example.
    Oh, definitely! Ron only wanted Harry's fame, not everything he had to go through...

    No wonder they don't understand each other

    ~ Chelsea

  6. #26
    Stubbornly_appeared
    Guest

    Won-won!

    Quote Originally Posted by cirelondiel
    And even if Ron does do something well, it's not so impressive, because Bill or Charlie or someone's already done it. (I believe Ron said something along those lines somewhere in the books, but I can't think where). Ron gets onto the Quidditch team - well, Charlie and Fred and George already did that. Ron is made a prefect - he is congratulated and fussed over, but not as much as he would have been if three older brothers hadn't already done that, and probably not nearly as much as Bill must have been when he got the badge! Say Ron had earned twelve O.W.L.s - it still wouldn't have been as impressive to his parents as it would have originally been when Bill did it, because they've seen it more than once now. Actually, come to think of it, whenever Ron did any of these things, it probably would have been "Oh, Ron, just like Bill/Charlie/Percy...!" Even when he achieves, he's compared to his older brothers, rather than appreciated for himself. Poor Ron.
    He's got hand-me-down affection!

    Did you read 'My Best Boy' by... someone? New fic in General. Talks a lot about Molly's different views of her different kids- a recommended read.

    I think this is a reason Ron is so jealous and defensive when it comes to relationships. After it's insinuated that he's never kissed a girl (besides Aunt Muriel), he goes off and gets fused at the mouth with Lavender just to prove a point and make Hermione jealous.

    What about Ron's love life, now that we mention it?

    -Stubby

  7. #27
    apollo13
    Guest
    Well, I was rather suprised in DH when he suddenly said to Harry "All's fair in love and war, and this is a bit of both."

    I was suprised because up until then he had rather feebly tried to hide it, born, I think, from his insecurities. Although, it may have come because of the locket incident, and I suppose he just knew then that Harry knew. But I would have thought that if he was so okay with Harry knowing he'd be able to talk to Hermione about it.

    I suppose he was too shy to do that though!

    Nevertheless, he got together with Lavender pretty quick - how d'you think that happened?

    ~Evie

  8. #28
    dracoslamis
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by LucillaJoanna
    Hermione may seem like Harry's all-around advisor, but Ron is the one taken from Harry by the merpeople... "We've taken what you'll sorely miss..."

    That says much about Ron's value.
    To expand on this point and further support it, you can take a look at when Harry and Ron fall out with Hermione. Harry does miss her, but not so much and almost seems to forget about her. It is only when Hagrid tells Harry and Ron that Hermione has been coming to him crying that Harry shows guilt and make a real effort to befriend her again.
    If you compare this to when Harry and Ron fall out in GoF, Harry is constantly thinking about Ron and thinking that Hermione is getting a little dull to hang out with by himself. He misses Ron far more than he does Hermione.

  9. #29
    Miss K
    Guest
    What an interesting discussion. Ron Weasley, to be frank, is one of my least favorite characters in the HP books. Boys like him have always irritated me in real life, and I think I particularly resent him because I am a lot like Hermione, and I resent the implication that I might end up with a Ron-like person in RL someday.

    But...just because I personally dislike him doesn't mean that I can't admit that he has his strengths. Some of the ones I've read in this discussion so far include loyalty, strategic thinking (chess), and bravery.

    To me, Ron is often a character who blends into the background of wherever he is. When he's at the Burrow, he's one among seven children. When he's at Hogwarts, he's one among three of the Trio. Very rarely does he get the opportunity in the books to shine as an individual character.

    I think his loyalty to others contributes to his tendency to simply fade into the scenery of the books. Because he is so loyal to his friends and family, he follows the set creed of where they go, follows in their footsteps, and supports them. This results in the simple fact that Ron rarely steps away from the group, does his own thing.

    Nevertheless, he has had independent moments throughout the book. Not all of them have been positive; in fact, many of them have been times when he stood against his friends and family, but they have all caused him to grow as a character in both our minds and in the books themselves. The first moment like this, I think, would be the chess game during the struggle to get to the Sorcerer's Stone at the end of Book 1. We begin to see a deeper side to Ron, a genuine strength in his character that contributes to the powerhouse of skills and strengths that make up the formidable Trio.

    His fight with Harry during Book 5 (Book 4?) because Harry got into the Triwizard's Tournament etc set him apart from the Trio. This moment is mentioned by that Mugglenet editorial on Ron. I question, however, if this is a truly independent moment; Ron is actually siding with the majority of Hogwarts at this point. However, after some thought, I have concluded that yes, this is indeed an independent moment. Ron isn't loyal to the Hogwarts population at large; he's loyal to Harry and Hermione, his best friends. For him to stand against Harry (even if it is with the rest of Hogwarts) truly is an independent move for his character.

    The last time that I can recall Ron standing apart from the people to whom he is loyal is his abandonment of Harry and Hermione for a brief time in Book 7.

    In those specific moments, Ronald Bilius Weasley has stood apart from friends and family -- his deepest desire, according to the Mirror of Erised -- and we have managed to see what he would be like alone, independent of everything to which he is loyal.

    When I look at these moments, I see the character, flaws and strengths and all, of Ron Weasley. I see a boy who has foresight and CAN think critically, contrary to the portrayal of him by many sources. I see a boy who wants to be someone great, who wants to do something admirable in his life -- a proud boy. I see a boy who is unsure of himself, but wants to do what is right. I see a boy who loves, and loves hard. To me, that is Ron Weasley.

    Oftentimes, we see Ron in the context of his relationship with Harry and Hermione. In my opinion, that is the wrong way to view a character. When Ron Weasley goes home every night, when he looks in the mirror in the morning, Harry and Hermione aren't there. It is just him, and just who he is as a character. We have to find the moments where Ron is alone, and only then can we ascertain who he truly is beneath the surface layers we see in the HP books.

    Let me continue in this vein for a moment. I'd like to argue against the idea mentioned way back in the beginning of this thread that Hermione (the fear of losing her to Harry) is a large part of Harry's and Ron's relationship. I would like to disagree. Those three have been friends long before Ron loved Hermione. While Harry's fame and riches have exacerbated Ron's insecurities, Mr. Potter has also been a rock for Ron. When Ron is teased by Malfoy, Harry is there. At night in the Gryffindor dormitory, Harry is there. To talk about Quidditch, girls, classes -- Harry is always there. While Ron has continued to be insecure to a fault about many things, I don't think that he would ever allow these insecurities to be a major part of his relationship with his best friend Harry. He is too loyal to Harry for that. While the insecurities may occasionally (i.e. the fight in GoF) mess with his friendship, Ron's character in itself will never allow that conflict to be permanent.

    I would like to argue that Hermione is the more dependable friend for Harry out of the two. Several times throughout the book, Ron and Harry have fought and Ron has turned against Harry for a few brief moments of time. While Ron may be less dependable as a constant source of friendship, Harry is definitely emotionally attached to him than he is to Hermione. When Ron and he are fighting in GoF, Harry actually thinks to himself that hanging out with Hermione just wasn't the same as hanging out with Ron. In GoF again, Ron is his most prized possession.

    Now, I'm going to go back to an idea that I had earlier in this post. I earlier said: "In those specific moments, Ronald Bilius Weasley has stood apart from friends and family -- his deepest desire, according to the Mirror of Erised -- and we have managed to see what he would be like alone, independent of everything to which he is loyal."

    I think that Ron's greatest desire in his first year of Hogwarts is for people to see who he truly is, independent of everyone else. People have seen him relative to other people in his life since the day he was born. He doesn't want fame or money -- he wants to be understood as his own person, and at 11 years old, he thinks that being Head Boy/Quidditch Captain is the only way to do that!

    However, in my opinion, by the end of DH, Ron has become his own person. He is no longer simply a follower of the Weasley family name or of Harry Potter; he has discovered who he is all by himself and therefore can share that person with the world. He doesn't have titles, it's true, but he does have an identity independent of his family and friends.

    Keeping what I just said in mind, what do you guys think he would see if he looked into the Mirror of Erised after DH, then?

    And I'll leave you with that. Cheers!

    Kumy

  10. #30
    go go ravenclaw
    Guest

    I love Ron!

    Ronald Weasley has been a personal favorite with me since the start of the series, when he went 'WICKED' at Harry's scar. He has a carefree yet insecure nature, which shows how multi dimensional the aspects of his character are.

    He has always endured being overshadowed by Harry well, and has never uttered a word of complain about how it affects him or his family. He is a patient, yet hot tempered character, as you can easily see in DH. He acts without thinking, making him a true Weasley. But he regrets his actions too, and apologizes for them, making him a true Gryffindor.

    Ronal Weasley is a very carefree and shameless person, and that is exactly what I admire about him: he says it to your face, and he would rather die than backbite. A more true, loyal and proud Gryffindor you will never find.

    His affection for Hermione shows how he loves people who dare to contradict him, who are not afraid of him, the way even Harry, sometimes, is. He wants people to love him for who he is, not so that they could satisfy themselves on being the girlfriend of a Quidditch Keeper *cough Lavender cough*.

    For the last time, I love Ronald Weasley, and I don't know if he would have liked me back if he knew me, but I satisy myself and all the Ron fangirls that he is an affectionate, compassionate and REAL person, not a lovey dovey ooh-look-at-me-I'm-HP's-best-pal type of unreal person.

    //rant.

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