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Thread: Character Discussion - Ron Weasley

  1. #1
    Marauder by Midnight
    Guest

    Character Discussion - Ron Weasley

    Character Discussion
    Ron Weasley

    I'm going to try something more interactive now. We'll have a good ol' character study later, but first, let's see how a discussion works out (for those who just love to debate)

    For this first discussion I've picked someone we all ought to know really well and yet whose discussion thread is sorely forgotten - Ronald Weasley.

    Some people see Ron Weasley as a very simple character, one who is often overshadowed by his more rounded comrades Harry Potter and Hermione Granger. Yet, we all know there is something so much deeper in that freckled face, don't we? Here are some discussion topics to consider:

    Ron is arguably depicted as Harry's sidekick while Hermione can be seen as more Harry's partner. What talent(s), if any, did Ron lend the trio?

    In some fanfiction and even in the films, we see him as an overly exaggerated fool. How does the fanon Ron compare to the Ron J.K. Rowling initially portrayed in the Harry Potter books?

    Every character has his vulnerabilities. What are Ron's, and under what situations does Ron show them?

    Ron Weasley is often given various futures in pre-DH fanfiction. What are some examples you've encountered, and how likely, based on information given before or during DH?

    Based on what you've seen in the books and in fanfiction, what might you say Ron's most prized possession/ is? "Possession," in this case, does not necessarily mean something materialistic.

    This discussion will NOT be a question-answer type of thing as some threads have turned out to be. Instead of simply answering a question put forth, your responsibility is to involve others by commenting on other comments, providing further support, or completely knocking down another post's remarks. Do not limit yourself to the topics I've put forth; don't be afraid to steer the discussion toward different points.

    I have gone through our archives to pluck out some stories that you may want to use in your discussion as examples.

    A lot to live up to by lady magician

    Another Side of the Story by Slian Martreb

    Broken Petals by Ron x Hermione

    Weeks and Weeks by Ravensgryff

    Stories not listed are okay to use as well as quotes from the HP books so long as they are properly cited.

    Because discussions are a lot lengthier and require a lot more thought, I may be able to award 45 points to each participant. 5 points will be awarded for merely posting twice; one post hardly counts as discussing. The more you participate, the more likely you'll wrack up points. Marauder by Midnight will be the sole judge for this activity. I will look for:
    • creativity
    • diversity in topics participated in
    • strength of opinion
    • interaction with other participants


    Points will NOT be awarded based on my agreeing or disagreeing with your standpoint. You need only to provide sufficient evidence.

    Please use only usernames when referring to a previous post or a story. Assume that I do not know any first names/nicknames (which is in actuality a very safe assumption). Directing a comment toward "Bob's statement" makes it very hard for me to figure out what you are referring to.

    Discussion for points will continue until 11:59 PM EST on February 29th, 2007, after which all posts made will be moved to the existing Ron Weasley discussion thread.

    Any questions should be PMed to me; let's leave this thread clear for discussion purposes

  2. #2
    Gonz
    Guest
    I think the major problem alot of people have with Ron is that we want our heroes to be heroic and Ron is most definently human. Harry and Hermione have their flaws, but their good qualities most of the time overshadows the bad. Too often do we see the opposite in Ron Weasley.

    Ron's major issue comes from jealousy. He's the youngestof six boys, with older brothers who have made names for the themselves, and he doesn't know want his is. He wants to be like Harry, but whenever he tries he fails. When he duels he hurts himself worse, when he tries to be a Quidditch star, he becomes the team's laughting stock instead. Poor Ron is so busy trying to be someone else that he fails to see the value in himself.

    I think that it is this fault that makes him too judgemental at times. When he gets tired of blaming himself he starts to blame others and until they and split.

    But this also leads to Ron's value.

    He always comes back.

    Ron can't stay away or turn his back on people he loves for very long. He's too loyal. He beats himself up over his value being overshadowed, but he'll be overshadowed for the good of the team. Therin lies his value to the trio, but more ways to the readers.

    Ron's imperfections make him looked down on many readers, but I suspect that for many others Ron give us a tale of an ordinary hero. This is what makes Ron extraordinary; his ability to raise above the ordinary And de didn't have any special talents to help him, only himself.

    To me that makes an important connection to world most people find themselves living in. How many of are smart and work hard to get good grades only to be overshadowed by the natural brians in the classroom? Or work hard and have fun on a sports team only to ride the bench? Very few people can be the best, but everyone feels they.

    Harry and Hermione each had ablities that made others stand and take notice, Ron didn't but fought anyway. That is why I believe that Ron a great character.


    Sorry, didn't mean to get carried away, but that's how about Ron. Agree/disagree?

  3. #3
    Stubbornly_appeared
    Guest

    Weasley is our king.

    What talent(s), if any, did Ron lend the trio?

    *splutters*

    Supreme mimickry talent, of course!

    No, but really. Ron is an extremely valuable member of the trio. Argueably more so than Hermione, but I'd probably say that they're on equal footing. Ron does what he can or what he's got to in any situation. He stands up to enemies, braves storms, and in the end always plays second fiddle.

    I think the real reason Ron's accomplishments are often looked over or not deemed as 'important' as Hermione's (I'm just going to leave Harry out here; he's hard to navigate around) are that they are not as obvious. They are the little things- the hand pulling you up onto the back of an escape dragon or fishing you out of a lake, the voice keeping positive or asking you if you're okay, and the resolute friend always coming back to help you. Ron has made some flubs in the past. Haven't we all, though? His just seem more obvious because they're clearer to us than Hermione's (who we always think is right even when she isn't because of her track record) may be. But, Hermione is constantly crying and putting away theories for Horcrux locations just because she doesn't think they're right.

    In a lot of ways, Ron is blinded and torn by his love for Hermione. In DH, we see him terribly hurt because he thinks Harmony is sailing. He wants Harry to be happy, but he's extremely jealous and angry because he's been jaded out of another thing that he thought was his in his life of hand-me-downs.

    How does the fanon Ron compare to the Ron J.K. Rowling initially portrayed in the Harry Potter books?

    I hate the way Ron is potrayed in the films and I think it is in no way Rupert Grint's fault. He's the bumbling, stereotypical friend/sidekick who's only there for a few cute one-liners. I honestly hope that we see a chance for his character to develop in the sixth movie.

    In fanfiction, I see Ron characterised in a lot of ways. He goes from overly brooding, to downright idiotic, to stoic and sauve playboy. For example, in one of my favourite fics that I shan't name, he is almost invisible. There are a few key characterisation moments where he gives up on Hermione after a close conversation with Harry (it's a H/OC, G/OC, Hr/VK, R/LL), but other than that he has another intense scene in the beginning and about one other meaningless line per chapter.

    There was one fic that I read that got him nicely, I suppose. I don't remember what it was, but it involved Ron having to sacrifice himself to destroy a Horcrux. He went out rather nobly, and though he was afraid he knew it was right and died so that his friends may finish the fight.

    What are Ron's vulnerablities, and under what situations does Ron show them?

    Well, he needs to eat a lot, and that gets downright annoying in DH.

    He's self-depreciating and has extremely low self-esteem. After 11 years of being called 'Cha-I mean, Bill- no, Percy- h, Fred, Geor- RONALD!' you've got to feel a little left out. He was too little to do any of their big kid stuff, too young to get anything new (why buy him his own robes if Bill's fit just fine?), and too nice to stick up for himself. Ron's afraid that he won't get what he wants or that he won't be heard. He's terrified of losing Hermione to Harry, the cooler, braver, better guy (in his opinion). She's the one thing he's ever had that's never belonged to anyone else.

    What are some examples you've encountered, and how likely, based on information given before or during DH?

    Probably the most common is still an Auror, I think. He goes on with Harry and they become the ultimate crime-fighting duo. I've also seen him running WWW if one or both of the twins die.

    Appearing with the second greatest frequency would be professional Quidditch player. He's always seemed to love Quidditch (Ron enjoys the attention he recieves on the pitch that he gets no where else) and his confidence and skills grew immensely over the course of OOTP to HBP.

    What might you say Ron's most prized possession (not necessarily material) is?

    Either his loyalty or Hermione.

    Loyalty: Ron is very loyal. Even in PS, we see him helping Hermione against the mountain troll and sacrificing himself in the chess game. Then, all the way in DH, he's leaving everything behind (his family, Hogwarts, larger chances of survival, and a well-disguised ghoul) to go with Harry on his Horcrux hunt and, even after he's left him and Hermione alone in a fit of fury (Ron flies off the handle on rare occaisions) and is in a place where most people would be afraid to go back, he returns.

    He despises those who are disloyal. Ron hates Pettigrew and Snape with a passion; he is quick to judge Xenophilius Lovegood when he finds that he has secretly been part of the campaign against Harry and means to hand him over to Voldemort. And Malfoy, too, perhaps Ron's bitterest rival of all: as Ron watches him flip-flop during the Battle of Hogwarts, he saves his life when a fellow Death Eater is attacking and then delivers a stout punch to the jaw and a few choice words. 'That's the second time we've saved your life tonight, you two-faced b*****d!'

    Hermione: Ron loves Hermione so much. As I said before, she is the one thing he has for himself. She loves him and he loves that.

    Ron isn't one of my favourite characters, but as I've been writing this I've come to realise that he's a lot better than I've been giving him credit for. Sure, he was incredibally annoying in DH, but those were extreme circumstaces that could bring out the worst in anyone.

    Ron Weasley is a hero.

    Ronald Weasley should be proud of himself.

    -Stubby

    EDIT: I forgot my responses to Gonz's discussion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gonz
    I think that it is this fault [jealousy and self-depretiation] that makes him too judgemental at times. When he gets tired of blaming himself he starts to blame others and until they [their relationships/moods] [frey]and split.
    I wasn't sure what you meant by the end part so I changed a bit.

    But, this exactly what I think. He tries so hard to live up to how he thinks other people think he should be that he doesn't realise that maybe it would be good enough for them if he were himself. Hey, that it would be good it he were himself and not what he thinks he wants to be.

    And so now, I present you with a quote.

    (Note: This is Harry performing Legillimency on a drunk Ron at Bill and Fleur's wedding. Fawkes cried on Bill's face and healed it. Viktor showed up at the wedding, much to Ron's chagrin.)

    Quote Originally Posted by 'Harry Potter and the Heirs of Slytherin' by fawkes_07, Chapter Seven: For Better
    A glimpse of Hermione running up to greet Viktor Krum, which seared through his insides as though he'd been impaled. Fred and George with their beautiful girls, offering to find him one or two if he wished. Harry himself, beaming at Fawkes after he'd healed Bill's wounds. All of these led back the anchor in Ron's mind: the conflict of joy and inadequacy. It infused everything, reaching out and entwining memories with delicate tendrils, or traversing gaps between unrelated subjects like a high-tension cable.

    Not as smart as Bill or Charlie, not as outrageous as Fred or George, not as ambitious as Percy, not as popular as Ginny. Not a good Quidditch player, not a good student, not as confident, as daring, as brave. Such opinions were the core of his self-image for the first decade of his life, and then the whole cycle repeated when he left home to go to Hogwarts. The only difference was that, at home, he had six siblings to whom he compared himself, but at school, two people sufficed to make him feel just as mediocre.

    Ron had worked all summer to cover his expenses at Hogwarts, and most of Ginny's, too. His parents wanted to throw a lavish feast for Bill's wedding; sparing them this expense was Ron's gift. Fat lot of good it was, chipping in so they could have pretty sweets at the feast, when Harry just came along with his overgrown budgie and gave Bill back his face....
    I believe that this really demonstrates Ron's feelings of inadequacy. He's constantly comparing himself to others because he wants to be good, wants to be better, wants to be impressive and noticed, something he never was among six other siblings.

  4. #4
    LucillaJoanna
    Guest
    Ron Weasley

    -- the best friend. The sidekick. 'Ronald' is diminutive of 'Reginald', which means 'right hand' and 'protector' because of its Germanic elements ragin (advice) and wald (rule). Hermione may seem like Harry's all-around advisor, but Ron is the one taken from Harry by the merpeople... "We've taken what you'll sorely miss..."

    That says much about Ron's value.

    Ron's major issue comes from jealousy. He's the youngest of six boys, with older brothers who have made names for the themselves, and he doesn't know he wants. He wants to be like Harry, but whenever he tries he fails. When he duels he hurts himself worse, when he tries to be a Quidditch star, he becomes the team's laughting stock instead. Poor Ron is so busy trying to be someone else that he fails to see the value in himself.
    There are truths here, Jen, but there are some things I don't agree with.

    Yes, Ron is very jealous. It's not the destructive and vindictive kind, though, like the one we see in Draco. Ron's is more like the wistful kind. And almost always, it's not with self-centered motives. He sulks about being poor because he doesn't like his family being looked down on; he wants to equal Harry's and his brothers' glory because it would bring pride and joy to his mother.

    And he does know what he wants. It's right there in the Mirror of Erised. He was young then, but his goals remained the same. He is ambitious. Years and years of being held against his brothers' shadows just made him very self-conscious and hesitant. This lack of confidence sometimes comes across as cowardice, and impairs his talent, like in Quidditch. And Ron seems to always need things to sink in first. He might do homework if it persists and will go on persisting without deadlines! And again, look at Quidditch. He needed to be on the team for a while, facing the crowd, before his ability broke through the timidity. His attraction to Hermione is the biggest thing we see him trying to comprehend in the books. It took a while.

    What talent(s), if any, did Ron lend the trio? Every character has his vulnerabilities. What are Ron's, and under what situations does Ron show them?


    Ron isn't as mediocre as usually thought. He's also smart. He always wins chess. His wit is rapier sharp. While Hermione is steeped in facts and deep logic, Ron roots the trio in common sense. He fires his one-liners without much notice how simple and yet eloquent they are.

    Ron wears his heart in his sleeve. This is at the same time his endearing trait and vulnerability. He doesn't waste effort on tact and propriety. He may be uncouth at times, nevertheless, he is so genuine.

    But while he is the tempest, he's also the calm. Though cliche, his red hair symbolises his temperamental nature. He is by turns vicious and meek. There is no in-between. Sometimes, this trait is good. Sometimes, it is bad. But that's what we all are. Coins with two sides.

    Good: When Draco Malfoy called Hermione a foul name, he doesn't hesitate using a curse far above him.
    Bad: When he is convinced Harry excluded him from the success of entering the Tournament, he minced no words.
    Bad: During Harry and Hermione's argument about whether Voldemort has captured Sirius or not, he doesn't take sides, calm either down or input his own opinions. He only added facts.
    Good: When he returns after his walkout on Harry and Hermione, he humbly accepted Hermione's wrath.

  5. #5
    Marauder by Midnight
    Guest
    You know, I usually say that "being too [something good]" is a Mary-Sue, in this case, Gary-Stu, flaw. Ron's being too loyal seems farfetched to me as a character flaw seeing as how I can't think of anything bad's Ron's done on account of being too loyal. Gonz, you probably didn't mean to word his flaw this way, since being too loyal doesn't have a strong connection with being overshadowed. I don't think he allows such a shadow to be cast over him just because he's self-sacrificing; I think that Ron stands aside for his friends because he doesn't see himself as being able to do anything else. When he becomes that sidekick, we don't see him backing willingly away and say, "Oh okay, I know you need to do your thing without me bothering you." Instead, I get the idea that he can't see himself participating in some heroic activity like Hermione and Harry do. He doesn't have the smarts or the knack to fight evil as Harry does, and he doesn't see that he possesses something that could help the duo. That's the flaw that Stubby mentions: low self-esteem. The inability to see his own talents and the talent to dismiss himself so easily are what draws him to the shadows.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gonz
    Ron's imperfections make him looked down on many readers, but I suspect that for many others Ron give us a tale of an ordinary hero. This is what makes Ron extraordinary; his ability to raise above the ordinary And de didn't have any special talents to help him, only himself.
    I never thought about it like that, but now that you mention it, I do agree. He's the ordinary hero in this journey. Ron is someone everyone can hope to be (minus all that magic). But comparing Harry to him, are you implying that Harry still bests Ron as the superhero?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stubbornly_Appeared
    I hate the way Ron is potrayed in the films and I think it is in no way Rupert Grint's fault. He's the bumbling, stereotypical friend/sidekick who's only there for a few cute one-liners. I honestly hope that we see a chance for his character to develop in the sixth movie.
    You're quite right there; I noticed the same thing. I think Ron became a humor device for the films since there aren't really very many funny moments in the books. They axed Peeves from the first film, so subsequent directors couldn't very well bring him back smoothly. And Fred and George do not have substantial parts in the books (so far). The only way to keep the films a family movie and to make it not so terribly dreary, they had to have funny moments, and who else could better play the "bumbling" character than a member of the trio?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucilla_Joanna
    And he does know what he wants. It's right there in the Mirror of Erised. He was young then, but his goals remained the same. He is ambitious. Years and years of being held against his brothers' shadows just made him very self-conscious and hesitant. This lack of confidence sometimes comes across as cowardice, and impairs his talent
    I don't think his vision in the Mirror of Erised was meant to portray him as ambitious. I think it was just a device used to help foreshadow, or support existing notions of, his low self-esteem and his need to step out from the shadows. I don't think this is synonymous to being "ambitious" though. We see Percy described as "ambitious" by Rowling, and he's pretty much trying to grow larger and larger than he already is and to cast a larger shadow on his siblings than he already is, whereas Ron is only trying to step aside and become his own man.

    I'm having some trouble understanding your "good-and-bad" list, Lucilla_Joanna. I concur that Ron has done good and bad things, I think the "bads" that you've noted are more good, grey, or neutral. For example, Ron saying exactly what he thinks to Harry was, for me, a neutral thing. Keeping it bottled up or having to struggle to soften the words so he doesn't hurt Harry's feelings are not things we should ask of Ron or any friend who has qualms. Rewording harmful statements has become a very essential talent in the real world, but I don't think that the best of friends, who have lived together for so long, need to worry about mincing words. As for Ron's not taking sides during the argument over Sirius, I would've thought that he was much more concerned with his leg/rat. Plus, I don't see a factual argument as a bad thing. When we don't know what to believe, we often weigh in the facts before we draw our conclusions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stubbornly_Appeared
    He's terrified of losing Hermione to Harry, the cooler, braver, better guy (in his opinion). She's the one thing he's ever had that's never belonged to anyone else.
    I've never thought of Hermione to be Ron's prized possession, but it makes sense. However, I don't know if we can say that she is his when they don't ever proclaim their love, and rarely even proclaim their friendship, until Deathly Hallows. This leads me to wonder how everyone else saw Ron's character development throughout the series and what he started out as to what he became.

    Oh, yes, for future reference, when you're referring to a previous post, please use their usernames and not their real names. Some people, like me, don't know everyone's real names, and naming someone by a name I don't recognize makes me struggle to understand what you are referring to.

    Also, my awarding points will not depend on my agreeing or disagreeing with your standpoint. I merely ask that you support your idea as best you can.

  6. #6
    LucillaJoanna
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Marauder by Midnight
    I don't think his vision in the Mirror of Erised was meant to portray him as ambitious. I think it was just a device used to help foreshadow, or support existing notions of, his low self-esteem and his need to step out from the shadows.
    I forgot about the foreshadowing thingie. I've always noted that one.
    Isn't the desire to step out of the shadows and to earn his own praise from his mother a small ambition in itself? It is never mentioned or noticed by anyone that Ron is ambitious because his aspirations are not manifested with zeal. He plays Quidditch, but he doesn't study or obsess over anything the way Hermione and Percy does. To compare Ron's ambitiousness to Percy's tips the 'virtues' in Ron's favor. Percy is self-important, Ron isn't. Percy is almost greedy for feathers in his cap; Ron is just wistful and laidback. And I think this is owing to Percy's advantage of not having older brothers making fun of him. By the time Fred and George got going, Percy has gathered enough confidence through achievements to dismiss the pokes. Whereas Ron is always taunted before he even begins. And as he wears his heart in his sleeve, these little brotherly teasings affect him more than it should or is meant to by the twins.

    The Good and Bad list, I didn't mean that they're bad, per se. I only contrasted each of Ron's spurts of passion and non-passion. He is fiery and passive by turns. In Goblet of Fire, he is too overrun by his feeling of betrayal to think that Harry can't have participated in that ridiculous interview. I doubt Ron even read the paper, but his jealousy fired his comments about the 'interview practising'. Or though by then he may have been mellowing and is curious who Harry is talking to, his pride made him scathing. When he boils, he boils. And when he is placid, he stays placid. Nothing shakes him. Not even when Lavender became even more obnoxious. So he has taken to hiding from Lavender behind Hermione's back. <-- Not exactly a good argument, I know. Some will consider his hesitance with breaking up gentlemanliness. Phew.

    And speaking of that, I'm afraid the development of Ron's character will not be until Movie 7, where, for a time and after his return, he will lead the Horcrux hunt while Harry is brooding. I bet the film industry will make the most and even more bumblingness out of Ron's entrance into romance in Movie 6. Even in the book, it is kind of immature. And yet another demonstration of Ron being susceptible to his furors, too.

  7. #7
    A.H.
    Guest
    Ron is arguably depicted as Harry's sidekick while Hermione can be seen as more Harry's partner. What talent(s), if any, did Ron lend the trio?
    I never got the impression that Harry looked to Hermione more than Ron. During... GoF, I believe, Harry is becoming tired of only having Hermione to hang around with. While Hermione is a good friend, she's to "work, work, work!" (for lack of a better vocabulary). I've always seen Ron as Harry's bestfriend, not just his sidekick.

    I couldn't begin to pin-point all of his talents, mainly because they've already been listed. Imo, it is his undying ability and the need he feels to protect and help his friends that is his greatest talent.


    In some fanfiction and even in the films, we see him as an overly exaggerated fool. How does the fanon Ron compare to the Ron J.K. Rowling initially portrayed in the Harry Potter books?
    Each story I read portrays him differently, but in most I find that he is characterized very well. Standoffish in awkward moments, hot headed in tense situations, and laid back when all is calm. Haven't read a story yet that makes him out in a bad way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gonz
    Ron's major issue comes from jealousy. He's the youngestof six boys, with older brothers who have made names for the themselves, and he doesn't know want his is. He wants to be like Harry, but whenever he tries he fails. When he duels he hurts himself worse, when he tries to be a Quidditch star, he becomes the team's laughting stock instead. Poor Ron is so busy trying to be someone else that he fails to see the value in himself.
    I agree and disagree with you. On the jealousy part, I completely agree. He is blinded by the need to make a name for himself so often that he doesn't want to realize his own talents; he merely wants to do what he thinks others will be proud of.

    The best example of this is what he sees in the Mirror of Erised. He sees himself as Head Hoy, winner of the Quidditch cup, captain of the Quidditch team, and winner of the House Cup. Forgive me if I'm wrong (so hard to keep up with seven Weasleys) but Charlie was Quidditch Captian, and either him or Bill was Head Boy. They also had to have earned either cups atleast once. Molly so often fawns on her eldest children for their accomplishments and left out Ron that it had to make him want to do something that his parents, and others, would notice.

    I disagree with you on him wanting to be like Harry. To be noticed as much as Harry yes, but to be like him, I don't think so. He would challange people, and duel, or throw back snide comments when he felt like it was nessecery to stick up for his friends. He tried out for Quidditch, because obviously he loved to play, and because he wanted the attention that Quidditch stars get.


    Quote Originally Posted by lucillajoanna
    Good: When he returns after his walkout on Harry and Hermione, he humbly accepted Hermione's wrath

    I thought that was because he was scared
    But I do agree that it is a good quality. In GoF, after Harry gets the egg, he realizes that Harry couldn't possibly have entered his name. Once he realizes this, he's willing to take whatever Harry has to say to him.

    So many things to reply to, and so little time. Love live Ronniekins!

    This is all just my opinion, and I welcome one and all the disagree! You probably will


    Beth: 5 points off for disregarding the following rule: Do not alter the size/colour/font of your text for entire posts or for regular posting purposes.

    A.H's Edit: Oh dear... I need to change quite a few posts
    Kaye, I've taken out the color. Sorry... should read the rules more throughougly.

  8. #8
    Stubbornly_appeared
    Guest

    Weatherby.

    Quote Originally Posted by a.h
    On the jealousy part, I completely agree. He is blinded by the need to make a name for himself so often that he doesn't want to realize his own talents; he merely wants to do what he thinks others will be proud of.
    Exactly! Part of this comes from always having to try extra-hard to outshine the people around him, another might come from his subconcious notion of not being good enough. It's a vicious cycle:

    First- Feelings of inadequacy.
    Next- Attempts to be 'as good' as the others and to shine in other's eyes.
    Next- Failure at attempts due to fear of failing/judgment.
    Then- Feelings of inadequacy.
    (Repeat.)

    Quote Originally Posted by a.h
    I disagree with you on him wanting to be like Harry. To be noticed as much as Harry yes, but to be like him, I don't think so. He would challange people, and duel, or throw back snide comments when he felt like it was necessary to stick up for his friends. He tried out for Quidditch, because obviously he loved to play, and because he wanted the attention that Quidditch stars get.
    What do you mean, he doesn't want to be like Harry?

    Reread the part in DH where Ron destroys the Horcrux. (I'll edit with quotes later.) (?) It [the Horcrux] plays off of his fears of failure and insecurity heavily- listen to the lines like, 'The mother who always wanted a daughter' and 'You are nothing, nothing, nothing to him'. It goes as far to say that everyone is always 'braver, better' than him, if I recall.

    The Horcrux playing off Ron's fears is a great analogy, but I'm confused by your elaboration.

    Ron is constantly in Harry's shadow. I think that, in immaturity, he wants to be just like Harry. Harry is a symbol to him: a symbol of everything he wants to be and have- Gryffindor bravery, fame, Quidditch skill, and to be noticed, known, and held in renown by all.

    -Stubby

  9. #9
    cirelondiel
    Guest
    Ron is arguably depicted as Harry's sidekick while Hermione can be seen as more Harry's partner. What talent(s), if any, did Ron lend the trio?
    What a good way of putting it. Hermione is the one who plans ahead and looks after the trio (think her AMAZING organisation and research in DH), and sometimes acts against the others when she thinks it's right (like reporting Harry's Firebolt to McGonagall because she thought it might have been cursed). But Ron is Harry's 'best mate', he shares his interests and jokes around and takes his side without question (most of the time). Harry's thoughts in fourth year when he has to hang out with Hermione because he's not speaking to Ron sum that up very nicely. a.h mentioned this too, and I'll find the exact quote later, but it's along the lines of "Life was very boring when Hermione was your best friend."

    So, to answer the question:
    1. Ron is the comic relief - not just for the readers, but for the trio. Harry's seven years at Hogwarts would be pretty boring for him if he'd spent them with just Hermione.
    2. Ron is a great support - for the most part, he sticks by Harry no matter what.
    And he's willing to risk himself - even sacrifice himself - for others, when he needs to. Way back in the giant chess game in PS/SS, he recognised that Harry was the one who needed to go on, and allowed himself to be taken. And he did that very graciously, despite the fact that he always felt overshadowed.
    The many times he fought with Harry, when his jealousy got the better of him, he always returned.
    3. Ron is also a valuable source of information on the wizarding world and culture. No matter how many books Hermione reads, there are some things that Ron takes for granted - like aspects of wizarding childhood - that can't be learnt from books. This comes up in DH, where Ron can't believe that Harry and Hermione don't know the Tales of Beedle the Bard. Maybe that's not so much a talent as luck of birth, but it's still something he brings to the trio (similar to how he also brings something of a foster family for Harry and Hermione).

    Quote Originally Posted by Stubbornly_appeared
    I think the real reason Ron's accomplishments are often looked over or not deemed as 'important' as Hermione's (I'm just going to leave Harry out here; he's hard to navigate around) are that they are not as obvious. They are the little things- the hand pulling you up onto the back of an escape dragon or fishing you out of a lake, the voice keeping positive or asking you if you're okay, and the resolute friend always coming back to help you.
    Exactly! Even though Ron's support may come in the form of small gestures rather than bold actions, it all adds up and is for the most part unwavering.

    ~*~

    In some fanfiction and even in the films, we see him as an overly exaggerated fool. How does the fanon Ron compare to the Ron J.K. Rowling initially portrayed in the Harry Potter books?
    Well, yeah. Movie!Ron is something of a buffoon. And unfortunately, he's not always a rounded character in fanfiction, either. Often, the characteristics of Ron in a fanfic can be summarised like this: 1) eats a lot 2) is ALWAYS last to catch on 3) is immature. Canon!Ron, however is a lot smarter than he often gets credit for. There's nothing to suggest that he's a lot more hopeless in classes than Harry (indeed, Harry adknowledges that he's not really better than Ron in classes in OotP, when he's trying to work out why Ron was made prefect). Yes, he may eat a lot and be more concerned about the start-of-term feast than the Sorting Ceremony - but exaggerating that characteristic and the others I mentioned makes him appear rather flat. Which is not a good thing for the person writing the fanfic, either, might I add - none of us want one-dimensional characters.

    I think Ron is made into an idiot most in fics that ship Hermione with another character, such as Harry or Draco. Because Hermione's attraction to Ron is quite clear in the books, authors wanting to put her in a relationship with someone else often dismiss it by saying that she soon realised he was a bit of an idiot and she wanted someone smart. (Not all non-R/Hr fics do that, of course, but some!)

    ~*~

    Ron Weasley is often given various futures in pre-DH fanfiction. What are some examples you've encountered, and how likely, based on information given before or during DH?
    Hmm, Hermione was given many different careers in pre-DH fanfiction, but for Ron and Harry, the only options seemed to be Auror or Quidditch player. I don't think I'd ever read Ron in any other job, actually.
    As for how likely they were:
    Auror - I don't think Ron would have earned good enough marks, honestly. But often in fanfiction, the trio all got accepted into the Auror program because they defeated Voldemort (which we knew they would do in the end, so that's not too much of a stretch. And indeed, it basically became true, didn't it. JKR said that they were instrumental in the reformation of the Ministry.)

    Quidditch player - well, in canon, he wasn't too bad at Quidditch once he got over his nerves, so with some hard work, I guess it's a possibility. But after seeing the state of the wizarding world in DH, I'm sure he would probably want to stick with Harry and be involved in fixing up the world before he rushed off to become a sports star.

    ~*~

    Well, that's three of the five questions answered for now. And I have one to add:

    In PS/SS, when Ron looked in the Mirror of Erised he saw himself as Head Boy and Quidditch Captain - more successful than his brothers. Over the course of the books he matured a lot, and his deepest desire probably changed. So, what do you think he would see if he looked in the Mirror after DH?

    ~*~

    Quote Originally Posted by Stubbornly_appeared
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by a.h
    I disagree with you on him wanting to be like Harry. To be noticed as much as Harry yes, but to be like him, I don't think so. He would challange people, and duel, or throw back snide comments when he felt like it was necessary to stick up for his friends. He tried out for Quidditch, because obviously he loved to play, and because he wanted the attention that Quidditch stars get.

    -----------
    What do you mean, he doesn't want to be like Harry?

    Reread the part in DH where Ron destroys the Horcrux. (I'll edit with quotes later.) It [the Horcrux] plays off of his fears of failure and insecurity heavily- listen to the lines like, 'The mother who always wanted a daughter' and 'You are nothing, nothing, nothing to him'. It goes as far to say that everyone is always 'braver, better' than him, if I recall.

    Ron is constantly in Harry's shadow. I think that, in immaturity, he wants to be just like Harry. Harry is a symbol to him: a symbol of everything he wants to be and have- Gryffindor bravery, fame, Quidditch skill, and to be noticed, known, and held in renown by all.
    I partly agree with both of you. Yes, of course Ron wants to be noticed like Harry and his brothers, like Stubbornly_appeared said. But (taking the example of Quidditch here) he doesn't necessarily want to play Quidditch just because Harry did, and Charlie and Fred and George did and he wanted to be like them. He wanted to play Quidditch because he loves it and he wanted the glory - as a.h said. Not just to be like Harry.

    *phew* I hope that all made sense. Feel free to disagree, of course! Can't wait to debate some more!

    ~ Chelsea

  10. #10
    Striped_Candycane
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Stubbornly_appeared
    He's terrified of losing Hermione to Harry, the cooler, braver, better guy (in his opinion). She's the one thing he's ever had that's never belonged to anyone else.
    You have summed up Hermione/Ron relationship PERFECTLY! Hermione is something that eventually becomes Ron's and Ron's only. In many ways finally getting Hermione represents the victory of a life time for Ron: he finally gets over his sometimes immature faults to get the girl. Hermione would have never married the Ron we see in earlier books: he had to change and work hard to get her, which, along with what Gonz said, further qualifies Ron as a fighter.

    Although many people think his abandonment of Hermione and Harry in Deathly Hallows was "annoying", I think it was also an incredibly important rite of passage. I think that Ron matures slightly slower than the rest of the group. Hermione has always been very mature, but her change comes mostly in POA, when she breaks various rules in loyalty to her friends. Harry becomes much more mature in OOTP, after Sirus’s death.. Ron has always been very insecure: he had to face himself and his flaws before going on. The stabbing of the Horcrux represents his willingness to go beyond his faults, and his recognization that some of his fears (such as Harry wanting Hermione) are unfounded.

    In Deathly Hallows especially, Ron represents the spirit of the Trio. We see this by the depressed, dim feeling that hangs over Harry and Hermione in his absence. He lightens the atmosphere: without Ron's comedy, I doubt Harry could have made it.

    In fact, JK Rowling mentions that one of the reasons that she didn't kill of Arthur Weasley in DH or OTP is that she had to keep Ron whole. After the death of his father, he would not have been capable of being anything but sober in the face of the battle ahead.

    Quote Originally Posted by cirelondiel
    Ron is also a valuable source of information on the wizarding world and culture. No matter how many books Hermione reads, there are some things that Ron takes for granted - like aspects of wizarding childhood - that can't be learnt from books. This comes up in DH, where Ron can't believe that Harry and Hermione don't know the Tales of Beedle the Bard. Maybe that's not so much a talent as luck of birth, but it's still something he brings to the trio (similar to how he also brings something of a foster family for Harry and Hermione).
    Very true. And he doesn’t only help Harry and Hermione, he helps the readers! We would be completely lost in the Wizarding World if we didn't have Ron to explain trivial things such as chocolate frogs or moving photographs.

    His talent for mimicry is also very interesting. It shows his intelligence and the strength of his powers of observation, but also his desire to be like others.

    Ron Weasley is often given various futures in pre-DH fanfiction. What are some examples you've encountered, and how likely, based on information given before or during DH?
    I know the question states “before or during DH”, but I dug up this JK Rowling quote anyway:
    Harry and Ron utterly revolutionized the Auror Department. They are now the experts. It doesn’t matter how old they are or what else they’ve done.
    This does seem pretty reasonable. I think to Ron, who is by nature a fighter, anything other than an Auror would seem flat after the fight against Voldemort. I can see him doing some Quidditch beforehand, however, though this wouldn’t be for very long.


    As for Ron in fanfiction…
    We see Hermione paired up with almost every character possible, from Snape to Harry. She is set up with canon characters almost as much as Draco is. To anyone attempting to write a fanfic involving anything Hermione/___, Ron will be an inventible obstacle. I think there are three main ways authors deal with this:

    a) The ignore him. Ron is a background character, his relationship with Hermione was a brief fling, they both have moved on now. If reading too many of these fanfictions, one may begin to wonder: Ron who?

    b) They portray Ron as a jealous buffoon. He is always yelling at poor Hermione, she can’t even talk to Draco in the hallways without Ron turning into a raging madman who inevitably punches whoever dares look at Hermione. He is always snappish, he is always stupid, while Hermione stands as the angel of reason overhead, mistreated and abused. She eventually dumps him.

    c) They portray Ron as he actually is in the books. This is a very rare occurrence, and a breath of fresh air for those who read fanfiction. This Ron blows hot at the beginning, but eventually learns to live with the fact that Hermione loves someone else, and remains a faithful friend.

    In my opinion, Ron is one of the most abused characters in fanfiction (or else it’s just the kind I read, since I don’t read too much Ron/Hermione). He fades often into the background in the General fic category, he is annoyingly stupid in the humour category…let us give Ron some slack!

    (Note: Just for those who will immediately protest that they have read so-and-so’s fic that has portrayed him perfectly, I will say that there ARE good Ron characterisations, especially on MNFF where fics require validation. The above is a general impression)

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