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Thread: Character Discussion - Ron Weasley

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  1. #1
    Marauder by Midnight
    Guest

    Character Discussion - Ron Weasley

    Character Discussion
    Ron Weasley

    I'm going to try something more interactive now. We'll have a good ol' character study later, but first, let's see how a discussion works out (for those who just love to debate)

    For this first discussion I've picked someone we all ought to know really well and yet whose discussion thread is sorely forgotten - Ronald Weasley.

    Some people see Ron Weasley as a very simple character, one who is often overshadowed by his more rounded comrades Harry Potter and Hermione Granger. Yet, we all know there is something so much deeper in that freckled face, don't we? Here are some discussion topics to consider:

    Ron is arguably depicted as Harry's sidekick while Hermione can be seen as more Harry's partner. What talent(s), if any, did Ron lend the trio?

    In some fanfiction and even in the films, we see him as an overly exaggerated fool. How does the fanon Ron compare to the Ron J.K. Rowling initially portrayed in the Harry Potter books?

    Every character has his vulnerabilities. What are Ron's, and under what situations does Ron show them?

    Ron Weasley is often given various futures in pre-DH fanfiction. What are some examples you've encountered, and how likely, based on information given before or during DH?

    Based on what you've seen in the books and in fanfiction, what might you say Ron's most prized possession/ is? "Possession," in this case, does not necessarily mean something materialistic.

    This discussion will NOT be a question-answer type of thing as some threads have turned out to be. Instead of simply answering a question put forth, your responsibility is to involve others by commenting on other comments, providing further support, or completely knocking down another post's remarks. Do not limit yourself to the topics I've put forth; don't be afraid to steer the discussion toward different points.

    I have gone through our archives to pluck out some stories that you may want to use in your discussion as examples.

    A lot to live up to by lady magician

    Another Side of the Story by Slian Martreb

    Broken Petals by Ron x Hermione

    Weeks and Weeks by Ravensgryff

    Stories not listed are okay to use as well as quotes from the HP books so long as they are properly cited.

    Because discussions are a lot lengthier and require a lot more thought, I may be able to award 45 points to each participant. 5 points will be awarded for merely posting twice; one post hardly counts as discussing. The more you participate, the more likely you'll wrack up points. Marauder by Midnight will be the sole judge for this activity. I will look for:
    • creativity
    • diversity in topics participated in
    • strength of opinion
    • interaction with other participants


    Points will NOT be awarded based on my agreeing or disagreeing with your standpoint. You need only to provide sufficient evidence.

    Please use only usernames when referring to a previous post or a story. Assume that I do not know any first names/nicknames (which is in actuality a very safe assumption). Directing a comment toward "Bob's statement" makes it very hard for me to figure out what you are referring to.

    Discussion for points will continue until 11:59 PM EST on February 29th, 2007, after which all posts made will be moved to the existing Ron Weasley discussion thread.

    Any questions should be PMed to me; let's leave this thread clear for discussion purposes

  2. #2
    Gonz
    Guest
    I think the major problem alot of people have with Ron is that we want our heroes to be heroic and Ron is most definently human. Harry and Hermione have their flaws, but their good qualities most of the time overshadows the bad. Too often do we see the opposite in Ron Weasley.

    Ron's major issue comes from jealousy. He's the youngestof six boys, with older brothers who have made names for the themselves, and he doesn't know want his is. He wants to be like Harry, but whenever he tries he fails. When he duels he hurts himself worse, when he tries to be a Quidditch star, he becomes the team's laughting stock instead. Poor Ron is so busy trying to be someone else that he fails to see the value in himself.

    I think that it is this fault that makes him too judgemental at times. When he gets tired of blaming himself he starts to blame others and until they and split.

    But this also leads to Ron's value.

    He always comes back.

    Ron can't stay away or turn his back on people he loves for very long. He's too loyal. He beats himself up over his value being overshadowed, but he'll be overshadowed for the good of the team. Therin lies his value to the trio, but more ways to the readers.

    Ron's imperfections make him looked down on many readers, but I suspect that for many others Ron give us a tale of an ordinary hero. This is what makes Ron extraordinary; his ability to raise above the ordinary And de didn't have any special talents to help him, only himself.

    To me that makes an important connection to world most people find themselves living in. How many of are smart and work hard to get good grades only to be overshadowed by the natural brians in the classroom? Or work hard and have fun on a sports team only to ride the bench? Very few people can be the best, but everyone feels they.

    Harry and Hermione each had ablities that made others stand and take notice, Ron didn't but fought anyway. That is why I believe that Ron a great character.


    Sorry, didn't mean to get carried away, but that's how about Ron. Agree/disagree?

  3. #3
    Stubbornly_appeared
    Guest

    Weasley is our king.

    What talent(s), if any, did Ron lend the trio?

    *splutters*

    Supreme mimickry talent, of course!

    No, but really. Ron is an extremely valuable member of the trio. Argueably more so than Hermione, but I'd probably say that they're on equal footing. Ron does what he can or what he's got to in any situation. He stands up to enemies, braves storms, and in the end always plays second fiddle.

    I think the real reason Ron's accomplishments are often looked over or not deemed as 'important' as Hermione's (I'm just going to leave Harry out here; he's hard to navigate around) are that they are not as obvious. They are the little things- the hand pulling you up onto the back of an escape dragon or fishing you out of a lake, the voice keeping positive or asking you if you're okay, and the resolute friend always coming back to help you. Ron has made some flubs in the past. Haven't we all, though? His just seem more obvious because they're clearer to us than Hermione's (who we always think is right even when she isn't because of her track record) may be. But, Hermione is constantly crying and putting away theories for Horcrux locations just because she doesn't think they're right.

    In a lot of ways, Ron is blinded and torn by his love for Hermione. In DH, we see him terribly hurt because he thinks Harmony is sailing. He wants Harry to be happy, but he's extremely jealous and angry because he's been jaded out of another thing that he thought was his in his life of hand-me-downs.

    How does the fanon Ron compare to the Ron J.K. Rowling initially portrayed in the Harry Potter books?

    I hate the way Ron is potrayed in the films and I think it is in no way Rupert Grint's fault. He's the bumbling, stereotypical friend/sidekick who's only there for a few cute one-liners. I honestly hope that we see a chance for his character to develop in the sixth movie.

    In fanfiction, I see Ron characterised in a lot of ways. He goes from overly brooding, to downright idiotic, to stoic and sauve playboy. For example, in one of my favourite fics that I shan't name, he is almost invisible. There are a few key characterisation moments where he gives up on Hermione after a close conversation with Harry (it's a H/OC, G/OC, Hr/VK, R/LL), but other than that he has another intense scene in the beginning and about one other meaningless line per chapter.

    There was one fic that I read that got him nicely, I suppose. I don't remember what it was, but it involved Ron having to sacrifice himself to destroy a Horcrux. He went out rather nobly, and though he was afraid he knew it was right and died so that his friends may finish the fight.

    What are Ron's vulnerablities, and under what situations does Ron show them?

    Well, he needs to eat a lot, and that gets downright annoying in DH.

    He's self-depreciating and has extremely low self-esteem. After 11 years of being called 'Cha-I mean, Bill- no, Percy- h, Fred, Geor- RONALD!' you've got to feel a little left out. He was too little to do any of their big kid stuff, too young to get anything new (why buy him his own robes if Bill's fit just fine?), and too nice to stick up for himself. Ron's afraid that he won't get what he wants or that he won't be heard. He's terrified of losing Hermione to Harry, the cooler, braver, better guy (in his opinion). She's the one thing he's ever had that's never belonged to anyone else.

    What are some examples you've encountered, and how likely, based on information given before or during DH?

    Probably the most common is still an Auror, I think. He goes on with Harry and they become the ultimate crime-fighting duo. I've also seen him running WWW if one or both of the twins die.

    Appearing with the second greatest frequency would be professional Quidditch player. He's always seemed to love Quidditch (Ron enjoys the attention he recieves on the pitch that he gets no where else) and his confidence and skills grew immensely over the course of OOTP to HBP.

    What might you say Ron's most prized possession (not necessarily material) is?

    Either his loyalty or Hermione.

    Loyalty: Ron is very loyal. Even in PS, we see him helping Hermione against the mountain troll and sacrificing himself in the chess game. Then, all the way in DH, he's leaving everything behind (his family, Hogwarts, larger chances of survival, and a well-disguised ghoul) to go with Harry on his Horcrux hunt and, even after he's left him and Hermione alone in a fit of fury (Ron flies off the handle on rare occaisions) and is in a place where most people would be afraid to go back, he returns.

    He despises those who are disloyal. Ron hates Pettigrew and Snape with a passion; he is quick to judge Xenophilius Lovegood when he finds that he has secretly been part of the campaign against Harry and means to hand him over to Voldemort. And Malfoy, too, perhaps Ron's bitterest rival of all: as Ron watches him flip-flop during the Battle of Hogwarts, he saves his life when a fellow Death Eater is attacking and then delivers a stout punch to the jaw and a few choice words. 'That's the second time we've saved your life tonight, you two-faced b*****d!'

    Hermione: Ron loves Hermione so much. As I said before, she is the one thing he has for himself. She loves him and he loves that.

    Ron isn't one of my favourite characters, but as I've been writing this I've come to realise that he's a lot better than I've been giving him credit for. Sure, he was incredibally annoying in DH, but those were extreme circumstaces that could bring out the worst in anyone.

    Ron Weasley is a hero.

    Ronald Weasley should be proud of himself.

    -Stubby

    EDIT: I forgot my responses to Gonz's discussion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gonz
    I think that it is this fault [jealousy and self-depretiation] that makes him too judgemental at times. When he gets tired of blaming himself he starts to blame others and until they [their relationships/moods] [frey]and split.
    I wasn't sure what you meant by the end part so I changed a bit.

    But, this exactly what I think. He tries so hard to live up to how he thinks other people think he should be that he doesn't realise that maybe it would be good enough for them if he were himself. Hey, that it would be good it he were himself and not what he thinks he wants to be.

    And so now, I present you with a quote.

    (Note: This is Harry performing Legillimency on a drunk Ron at Bill and Fleur's wedding. Fawkes cried on Bill's face and healed it. Viktor showed up at the wedding, much to Ron's chagrin.)

    Quote Originally Posted by 'Harry Potter and the Heirs of Slytherin' by fawkes_07, Chapter Seven: For Better
    A glimpse of Hermione running up to greet Viktor Krum, which seared through his insides as though he'd been impaled. Fred and George with their beautiful girls, offering to find him one or two if he wished. Harry himself, beaming at Fawkes after he'd healed Bill's wounds. All of these led back the anchor in Ron's mind: the conflict of joy and inadequacy. It infused everything, reaching out and entwining memories with delicate tendrils, or traversing gaps between unrelated subjects like a high-tension cable.

    Not as smart as Bill or Charlie, not as outrageous as Fred or George, not as ambitious as Percy, not as popular as Ginny. Not a good Quidditch player, not a good student, not as confident, as daring, as brave. Such opinions were the core of his self-image for the first decade of his life, and then the whole cycle repeated when he left home to go to Hogwarts. The only difference was that, at home, he had six siblings to whom he compared himself, but at school, two people sufficed to make him feel just as mediocre.

    Ron had worked all summer to cover his expenses at Hogwarts, and most of Ginny's, too. His parents wanted to throw a lavish feast for Bill's wedding; sparing them this expense was Ron's gift. Fat lot of good it was, chipping in so they could have pretty sweets at the feast, when Harry just came along with his overgrown budgie and gave Bill back his face....
    I believe that this really demonstrates Ron's feelings of inadequacy. He's constantly comparing himself to others because he wants to be good, wants to be better, wants to be impressive and noticed, something he never was among six other siblings.

  4. #4
    Striped_Candycane
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Stubbornly_appeared
    He's terrified of losing Hermione to Harry, the cooler, braver, better guy (in his opinion). She's the one thing he's ever had that's never belonged to anyone else.
    You have summed up Hermione/Ron relationship PERFECTLY! Hermione is something that eventually becomes Ron's and Ron's only. In many ways finally getting Hermione represents the victory of a life time for Ron: he finally gets over his sometimes immature faults to get the girl. Hermione would have never married the Ron we see in earlier books: he had to change and work hard to get her, which, along with what Gonz said, further qualifies Ron as a fighter.

    Although many people think his abandonment of Hermione and Harry in Deathly Hallows was "annoying", I think it was also an incredibly important rite of passage. I think that Ron matures slightly slower than the rest of the group. Hermione has always been very mature, but her change comes mostly in POA, when she breaks various rules in loyalty to her friends. Harry becomes much more mature in OOTP, after Sirus’s death.. Ron has always been very insecure: he had to face himself and his flaws before going on. The stabbing of the Horcrux represents his willingness to go beyond his faults, and his recognization that some of his fears (such as Harry wanting Hermione) are unfounded.

    In Deathly Hallows especially, Ron represents the spirit of the Trio. We see this by the depressed, dim feeling that hangs over Harry and Hermione in his absence. He lightens the atmosphere: without Ron's comedy, I doubt Harry could have made it.

    In fact, JK Rowling mentions that one of the reasons that she didn't kill of Arthur Weasley in DH or OTP is that she had to keep Ron whole. After the death of his father, he would not have been capable of being anything but sober in the face of the battle ahead.

    Quote Originally Posted by cirelondiel
    Ron is also a valuable source of information on the wizarding world and culture. No matter how many books Hermione reads, there are some things that Ron takes for granted - like aspects of wizarding childhood - that can't be learnt from books. This comes up in DH, where Ron can't believe that Harry and Hermione don't know the Tales of Beedle the Bard. Maybe that's not so much a talent as luck of birth, but it's still something he brings to the trio (similar to how he also brings something of a foster family for Harry and Hermione).
    Very true. And he doesn’t only help Harry and Hermione, he helps the readers! We would be completely lost in the Wizarding World if we didn't have Ron to explain trivial things such as chocolate frogs or moving photographs.

    His talent for mimicry is also very interesting. It shows his intelligence and the strength of his powers of observation, but also his desire to be like others.

    Ron Weasley is often given various futures in pre-DH fanfiction. What are some examples you've encountered, and how likely, based on information given before or during DH?
    I know the question states “before or during DH”, but I dug up this JK Rowling quote anyway:
    Harry and Ron utterly revolutionized the Auror Department. They are now the experts. It doesn’t matter how old they are or what else they’ve done.
    This does seem pretty reasonable. I think to Ron, who is by nature a fighter, anything other than an Auror would seem flat after the fight against Voldemort. I can see him doing some Quidditch beforehand, however, though this wouldn’t be for very long.


    As for Ron in fanfiction…
    We see Hermione paired up with almost every character possible, from Snape to Harry. She is set up with canon characters almost as much as Draco is. To anyone attempting to write a fanfic involving anything Hermione/___, Ron will be an inventible obstacle. I think there are three main ways authors deal with this:

    a) The ignore him. Ron is a background character, his relationship with Hermione was a brief fling, they both have moved on now. If reading too many of these fanfictions, one may begin to wonder: Ron who?

    b) They portray Ron as a jealous buffoon. He is always yelling at poor Hermione, she can’t even talk to Draco in the hallways without Ron turning into a raging madman who inevitably punches whoever dares look at Hermione. He is always snappish, he is always stupid, while Hermione stands as the angel of reason overhead, mistreated and abused. She eventually dumps him.

    c) They portray Ron as he actually is in the books. This is a very rare occurrence, and a breath of fresh air for those who read fanfiction. This Ron blows hot at the beginning, but eventually learns to live with the fact that Hermione loves someone else, and remains a faithful friend.

    In my opinion, Ron is one of the most abused characters in fanfiction (or else it’s just the kind I read, since I don’t read too much Ron/Hermione). He fades often into the background in the General fic category, he is annoyingly stupid in the humour category…let us give Ron some slack!

    (Note: Just for those who will immediately protest that they have read so-and-so’s fic that has portrayed him perfectly, I will say that there ARE good Ron characterisations, especially on MNFF where fics require validation. The above is a general impression)

  5. #5
    untitlednine
    Guest
    Ron totally lent the talent of hilarity, jealousy, loyalty, and procrastination. And chess skills.

    Sorry, just had to say that.

    Beth: This does not count as a post that contributes to discussion. Will not count toward your two posts

  6. #6
    Stubbornly_appeared
    Guest

    Rupert!

    Quote Originally Posted by Striped_Candycane
    Although many people think his abandonment of Hermione and Harry in Deathly Hallows was "annoying", I think it was also an incredibly important rite of passage. I think that Ron matures slightly slower than the rest of the group. Hermione has always been very mature, but her change comes mostly in POA, when she breaks various rules in loyalty to her friends. Harry becomes much more mature in OOTP, after Sirusís death.. Ron has always been very insecure: he had to face himself and his flaws before going on. The stabbing of the Horcrux represents his willingness to go beyond his faults, and his recognization that some of his fears (such as Harry wanting Hermione) are unfounded.
    You've got it there. In leaving, Ron does a great many things. He sticks up for himself. He forges his own way. He goes against his friend. And, possibly the most important thing- he realises that even after he's left, he can still go back.

    Quote Originally Posted by Striped_Candycane
    His talent for mimickry is also very interesting. It shows his intelligence and the strength of his powers of observation, but also his desire to be like others.
    I never actually thought of that as a metaphor for his desire to be like others. I did see the observation point- it's necessary to be a really good strategist and chess master like he is- but not that. Interesting idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by Striped_Candycane
    In my opinion, Ron is one of the most abused characters in fanfiction (or else itís just the kind I read, since I donít read too much Ron/Hermione). He fades often into the background in the general fic category, he is annoyingly stupid in the humour categoryÖlet us give Ron some slack!
    *nod* He seems to be treated like he is in the movies. Occaisionally, he profers a guilded plot device on the wings of a stupid antic, but other than that he's really only part of the scenery. Harry seems to talk to him as much as he does to trees in my experiance.

    It's late, but tomorrow I'll look for some GOOD examples of Ron characterisations in fanfiction. All we seem to be doing is bashing- which is good, I suppose. In its own special way.

    -Stubby

  7. #7
    Marauder by Midnight
    Guest
    It just tickles me pink to see the discussion that has been going on in this thread. I see that Ron's character has been carefully dissected by each participant While I'm late in doing this, I do want to respond to some of what you all said. Forgive me if I bring up a topic/post that had been discussed ages ago and had been left alone.

    cirelondiel, in your response to the question what future has each fanon!Ron encountered in your experience, you say:

    Quote Originally Posted by cirelondiel
    I don't think Ron would have earned good enough marks [to be an Auror], honestly.
    Yet right before that answer, you say:
    Quote Originally Posted by cirelondiel
    Canon!Ron, however is a lot smarter than he often gets credit for. There's nothing to suggest that he's a lot more hopeless in classes than Harry (indeed, Harry adknowledges that he's not really better than Ron in classes in OotP, when he's trying to work out why Ron was made prefect).
    It seems like the two statements conflict each other. Harry being an Auror doesn't seem to bother you, so he probably is able to make the cut, so to speak. Yet if Ron isn't too much worse than Harry, as you point out, then why could he not have made it as an Auror based solely on marks?

    On the topic of Ron's search for glory:
    Quote Originally Posted by apollo13
    I agree - when he returns in DH, he says to Harry, "You make it sound a lot cooler than it really was," and Harry replies, "It always sounds cooler than it really was, I've been trying to tell you that for years."
    That's a great quote you've got there. But it reminded me of this issue: could Ron have stuck by Harry not just for his companionship but also for a selfish-er reason? Ron knew if he stuck by Harry until the end, face all those terrible ordeals at Harry's side, he would gain the respect and glory that he so desired, even if he died. So could a part of Ron's "loyalty" be attributed to this selfish reason and if so, how much?

    Quote Originally Posted by apollo13
    I think that Ron has this vision of Harry - a vision of a very clever, sneaky, always-understands-what's-going-on Harry, which is only true to a certain extent. So, of course, when Harry was lost, Ron was lost too, as Harry has always been the leader, and Ron was expecting him to lead.
    But doesn't this promote the idea that Ron is the sidekick? Or are you agreeing that Ron is a sidekick and sort of disagreeing with what others have said before you about Ron being his own person?

    On what Ron would see in the Mirror of Erised after DH:
    Quote Originally Posted by cireondiel
    Now, I think, when he looked into the mirror he would see (as Striped_Candycane said) his family safe and whole. Some people mentioned being with Hermione - yes, I think he'd see her and Harry (and maybe even some other friends?) alongside his family. After the epilogue, his main interest would probably be in being with his wife and children, with his family all round them.
    Didn't Ron grow up in a family where family was emphasized as the first thing on anyone's agenda? No one except Ron seems to think differently about this philosophy. So why isn't his healthy, whole family the thing he saw when he first looked into the Mirror?

    On Ron's relationship with Harry:
    Quote Originally Posted by Stubbornly_appeared
    Ron doesn't understand that Harry doesn't care about being famous or want recognition- all Harry wants is to be free of his crushing destiny (and Voldemort) and a loving family that he can call his own. Harry doesn't get why Ron doesn't realise how much HE has, and why he wants to be famous (GoF and the Triwizard). Ron wants Harry's talents and 'name'. Harry wants Ron's family and normalacy. A right pair of battling tops, eh?
    I think this only applies to Harry and Ron up to GoF. After that, particularly since Voldemort is resurrected, I don't think Ron places such a heavy emphasis on being like Harry. Ron's jealousy of Harry is not what drives him away during DH; in fact, it can be argued that it is the complete opposite of that - that Ron is tired of being Harry.

    But up to GoF, I think this is what someone else was talking about when they said the trio complemented each other. Not including Hermione in this picture, wouldn't you say that this desire for what the other person has is what brings them closer together?

    Quote Originally Posted by cirelondiel
    And even if Ron does do something well, it's not so impressive, because Bill or Charlie or someone's already done it.
    Adding on to that, if Ron didn't do something his brothers had done, he's seen as a failure - if the others can do it, why can't he?

    Quote Originally Posted by Miss K
    Nevertheless, he has had independent moments throughout the book. Not all of them have been positive; in fact, many of them have been times when he stood against his friends and family, but they have all caused him to grow as a character in both our minds and in the books themselves.
    The examples of Ron being independent that you provided were all of Ron standing up against Harry and his family, which, in the reader's point of view, is bad and thus his independence shouldn't be a good character attribute. So do you have any examples of Ron being independent and "good"?

    AAaand you did (Ron as Keeper)

    Quote Originally Posted by Miss K
    In those specific moments, Ronald Bilius Weasley has stood apart from friends and family -- his deepest desire, according to the Mirror of Erised -- and we have managed to see what he would be like alone, independent of everything to which he is loyal.
    His deepest desire according to the Mirror of Erised is not family and friends - it's being Head Boy and Quidditch Captain.

    Quote Originally Posted by padfoot_returns
    For me, I don’t think that Harry would have been able to complete his journey without either one of them.
    May I just burst into song?
    I've heard it said
    That people come into our lives
    For a reason
    Bringing something we must learn
    And we are led to those
    Who help us most to grow
    If we let them
    If we help them in return.
    Well I don't know if I
    Believe that's true
    But I know I'm who I am today
    Because I knew you


    Quote Originally Posted by MissyQuill
    In his defence, he came back and wanted to come back the moment he left but he went all the same. What is to say that he won't do it again. And to his wife and kids this time round.
    What I think would keep Ron from running again is because he learned his lesson. Someone had earlier pointed out that Ron matured in DH - his leaving the trio was pre-mature!Ron while his coming back indicates a more grown-up Ron ready to fight his demons, so to speak. He came back because he saw how wrong he was in abandoning his friends (that loyalty trait everyone talks about). So why would he do that again, especially to his wife and kids?

    On why Ron came back during DH:
    Quote Originally Posted by Stubbornly_Appeared
    After running off, I think he realises exactly how bad things are and what really needs to be done. Lemme losely quote Sirius here. He once said (I think), 'What was to be gained by fighting the most evil wizard of all time? Only innocent lives!'. I believe that, while Ron stayed at Shell Cottage, he realised what was at stake. He understood that he needed to push past his own feelings for once for the better of the whole, which is difficult for him because he feels that he's always ignored anyway. So he comes back, he faces his demons in the locket, and ends up as a much more mature Ron.
    Hmm that's an interesting theory on the reason behind Ron's coming back. So far, I've read the Ron-came-back-he's-so-loyal version so many times that this is a refreshing change. This would also support the reason why Ron's a Gryffindor, right? The courage to put yourself aside and to fight for the greater good is hardly something, as you say, to sneeze at. But from the arguments and the evidence shown, I still think Ron's loyalty to Harry and/or his own personal gain is what played the biggest role in him coming back. He doesn't come back and say, "Yo, Harry, I'm not friends with you, but I still think we need to save the world. Truce?" Instead, he apologizes and admits he's wrong.

    It has taken me forever and a day to decide how I'm going to distribute the points. I also felt like I needed to point out the key facts that each person has made. The bolded/underlined statements in each post are the statements/opinions that earned you the points as far as strength of argument goes.

    The thread has been reopened for continuing discussion on Ron but not for points. Here are the tallied points along with some commentary:

    Stubbornly_Appeared: 39 points for 8 posts. There were several good points that you brought up in your posts and sometimes provided very good evidence to back it up. You definitely stuck by your opinions and was able to argue them very eloquently. However, there were several posts that you made (I believe 4) where you simply repeated what another person said in your own words.
    LucillaJoanna: 22 points for 2 posts. Being one of the first people to post, you were able to bring up very good points that were later used in the discussion, and you clarified your first post very well in your second post. However, because you didn't follow up on this thread, you weren't able to address the issues some people brought up about your posts and therefore you were unable to fully defend your opinion.
    A.H.: 25 points for 3 posts. You addressed a question about your post very well. You also made a valiant attempt to revive the thread with a new question of your own. However, most of what you said needed some elaboration which you didn't provide.
    cirelondiel: 35 points for 3 posts. You brought up some excellent points that you were supported very well with examples from the series. You also put forth a question that became a key theme discussed in the thread. Very well done.
    Striped_Candycane: 43 points for 6 posts. My only Ravenclaw! You make very good points in every single post. You also answered to any issues people had with the points you made with more supporting evidence. The question you asked to try to revive the thread didn't carry far though.
    apollo13: 42 points for 11 posts. My only Slytherin! You were so active during the points part of this discussion, and you showed an interest in a diversity of the topics presented. However, there were a couple posts you had made where you didn't show as much conviction toward you opinion; the arguments made then weren't as strong as your other posts, and they were often slightly confusing.
    MissyQuill: 35 points for 4 posts. You showed strength and conviction in your arguments. You addressed issues that others had with points you made, though at times your answering post was not as strong as your first post or your "challenger'"'s post.
    Miss K: 34 points for 4 posts. You obstinately stood by your opinions of Ron and were able to provide a lot of support evidence. Your question on Ron's "mis-Sorting" was a good topic to bring up, though everyone agreed with you and didn't provide a huge "challenge" to your theory. However, there were some inconsistencies between your posts, and the first post you made was more of an essay rather than a discussion.
    padfoot_returns: 20 points for 2 posts. You made some very good points about Ron's behavior during DH. A few more posts along that line would've been great. There was, however, one point where you slightly contradicted yourself and would've needed a more elaborate explanation.
    go go ravenclaw: 12 points for 2 posts. You made some great points in your first post. However, most of your first post and your second post was spent reiterating what others had said before you.

    Those are all the participants I have noted. I provided an explanation as to why I gave you the points I did. While I will not change points solely because you felt you deserved more points, you are welcome to PM me and clarify why you got the points you did. That, I think, is only fair.

    Points will be added to the House Points thread when I'm finished judging Fiction Junction's activity

    In the meantime, if anyone wants to continue this excellent thread, please feel free to do so.

  8. #8
    apollo13
    Guest
    That's a great quote you've got there. But it reminded me of this issue: could Ron have stuck by Harry not just for his companionship but also for a selfish-er reason? Ron knew if he stuck by Harry until the end, face all those terrible ordeals at Harry's side, he would gain the respect and glory that he so desired, even if he died. So could a part of Ron's "loyalty" be attributed to this selfish reason and if so, how much?
    It's certianly a possibility. However, I think that if this were true, it would be highly unlikely that Ron would have stuck with Harry through DH (Yes, I know he left for a bit, but that is a different matter, and he came back in the end, didn't he?) and the rather dangerous and difficult times. He would have been more like Romilda Vane, and would trail around after Harry when times were good, but never really stick with him.

    But doesn't this promote the idea that Ron is the sidekick? Or are you agreeing that Ron is a sidekick and sort of disagreeing with what others have said before you about Ron being his own person?
    No, what I meant was that Ron looks up to Harry very greatly, which is not really the same thing as being a side-kick.
    Although Ron is somewhat of a side-kick, the same could be said for Hermione, if this is the case. The same could be said for any of Harry's friends, in fact.

    I think a defination of side kick is needed here. Are we talking about side-kick in the superhero sense here? The bumbling, useless, almost groupie-like superhero?

    I'm all for continuing with this! It's great fun! Are we going to have a new character discussion?

    ~Evie

  9. #9
    Striped_Candycane
    Guest
    Ooo, this thread is open again ! I hadn’t even noticed...
    Quote Originally Posted by Marauder by Midnight

    That's a great quote you've got there. But it reminded me of this issue: could Ron have stuck by Harry not just for his companionship but also for a selfish-er reason? Ron knew if he stuck by Harry until the end, face all those terrible ordeals at Harry's side, he would gain the respect and glory that he so desired, even if he died. So could a part of Ron's "loyalty" be attributed to this selfish reason and if so, how much?
    As apollo13 said, I do doubt that Ron would have stuck by Harry if he had only selfish reasons. Although I do think there could be a small percentage of selfishness, especially before he left in Deathly Hallows, he probably wouldn’t have come back or stayed when things got really hard.

    I’m also going to guess that this percentage of selfishness is a relatively small one, because I really don’t see Ron as that manipulative and calculating. He isn’t constantly thinking “well, I’ll do this because eventually, when we finally win this thing, I’ll have limitless glory,” simply because he doesn’t necessarily look that far ahead.

    But then again, we never really know what goes on in Ron’s head. We always see him through Harry’s POV. Who knows what he’s brewing up under the innocent exterior?

    Quote Originally Posted by Marauder by Midnight
    Didn't Ron grow up in a family where family was emphasized as the first thing on anyone's agenda? No one except Ron seems to think differently about this philosophy. So why isn't his healthy, whole family the thing he saw when he first looked into the Mirror?
    Because with Ron, I think it always comes down to maturity. As we said before, Molly has always spoiled him, and so he looks to what he hasn’t got, which was why he didn’t see his whole, healthy family the first time.

    And, after all, why should he? The Mirror shows, as we know well, your deepest desire. Why on earth would he desire his family to be whole and happy when it already was? When he matures a bit and his family is broken apart by the War, he no longer has that whole and happy family, and so only then would he be able to see them in the Mirror.

    I agree with apollo13, we really should have more discussions like this...they're so much fun!

  10. #10
    LucillaJoanna
    Guest
    Ron Weasley

    -- the best friend. The sidekick. 'Ronald' is diminutive of 'Reginald', which means 'right hand' and 'protector' because of its Germanic elements ragin (advice) and wald (rule). Hermione may seem like Harry's all-around advisor, but Ron is the one taken from Harry by the merpeople... "We've taken what you'll sorely miss..."

    That says much about Ron's value.

    Ron's major issue comes from jealousy. He's the youngest of six boys, with older brothers who have made names for the themselves, and he doesn't know he wants. He wants to be like Harry, but whenever he tries he fails. When he duels he hurts himself worse, when he tries to be a Quidditch star, he becomes the team's laughting stock instead. Poor Ron is so busy trying to be someone else that he fails to see the value in himself.
    There are truths here, Jen, but there are some things I don't agree with.

    Yes, Ron is very jealous. It's not the destructive and vindictive kind, though, like the one we see in Draco. Ron's is more like the wistful kind. And almost always, it's not with self-centered motives. He sulks about being poor because he doesn't like his family being looked down on; he wants to equal Harry's and his brothers' glory because it would bring pride and joy to his mother.

    And he does know what he wants. It's right there in the Mirror of Erised. He was young then, but his goals remained the same. He is ambitious. Years and years of being held against his brothers' shadows just made him very self-conscious and hesitant. This lack of confidence sometimes comes across as cowardice, and impairs his talent, like in Quidditch. And Ron seems to always need things to sink in first. He might do homework if it persists and will go on persisting without deadlines! And again, look at Quidditch. He needed to be on the team for a while, facing the crowd, before his ability broke through the timidity. His attraction to Hermione is the biggest thing we see him trying to comprehend in the books. It took a while.

    What talent(s), if any, did Ron lend the trio? Every character has his vulnerabilities. What are Ron's, and under what situations does Ron show them?


    Ron isn't as mediocre as usually thought. He's also smart. He always wins chess. His wit is rapier sharp. While Hermione is steeped in facts and deep logic, Ron roots the trio in common sense. He fires his one-liners without much notice how simple and yet eloquent they are.

    Ron wears his heart in his sleeve. This is at the same time his endearing trait and vulnerability. He doesn't waste effort on tact and propriety. He may be uncouth at times, nevertheless, he is so genuine.

    But while he is the tempest, he's also the calm. Though cliche, his red hair symbolises his temperamental nature. He is by turns vicious and meek. There is no in-between. Sometimes, this trait is good. Sometimes, it is bad. But that's what we all are. Coins with two sides.

    Good: When Draco Malfoy called Hermione a foul name, he doesn't hesitate using a curse far above him.
    Bad: When he is convinced Harry excluded him from the success of entering the Tournament, he minced no words.
    Bad: During Harry and Hermione's argument about whether Voldemort has captured Sirius or not, he doesn't take sides, calm either down or input his own opinions. He only added facts.
    Good: When he returns after his walkout on Harry and Hermione, he humbly accepted Hermione's wrath.

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