Andromeda Tonks (née Black)

[Pendraegona]

Andromeda is an interesting case, as we hear a fair bit about her, but she only actually appears for about a page in DH.

"The whole Black family had been in my House, but Sirius ended up in Gryffindor! Shame."
-Professor Slughorn, HBP, pg 70

We seem to generally agree she was a Slytherin, and the evidence overwhelmingly suggests it, especially the remark by Slughorn. I'm sure there are "nice Slytherins", but my inability to think of any off of the top of my head suggests that just being away from her family--just being at Hogwarts (surrounded by future Death Eaters and purebloods) --wouldn't have been enough to make her consider her parents' prejudices. It took falling in love with Ted.

Should add--being Sirius' favorite cousin isn't saying much. From what we know, he didn't exactly have a lot of choices. Talk about sadistic psychopath and frigid snob.

I've never imagined Dromeda a rebel. Sirius' case was different--I've never found fanfictions in which Sirius gets emotional over the death of his father or Regulus' murder realistic. There is just a thing as digging too deep; Sirius pretty much genuinely hated his family. I don't think Andromeda hated her family. They must have been just as bad as Sirius', but there's never evidence she loathed them. She probably even loved them. She just loved Ted more.

Sirius ran away from something, Andromeda ran away to something.

In the end, Dromeda did it to be happy. I'm sure that sounds oversimplified to the point of being stupid, but it wasn't like all of a sudden she was anti-Voldemort and anti-Purebloodmania and wanted to fight or anything (Ted and Dromeda never actually joined the Order, did they?) It was Ted. Just Ted. And if the fact that he was a Muggleborn was just part of the package, take it or leave it. She was in love with him. She took it.

Concerning Remus and Tonks' relationship, Lupin's actual words were, "even her own family is disgusted by our marriage." I reckon there are two ways to see this: either she knew what it was like being married to someone shunned by high class society and didn't want that for her daughter, or she and Ted are prone to prejudice and hypocrisy just like everyone else. The flinch-and-recoil reflex is ingrained. For Tonks, Remus' being part of a werewolf was part of the package, take it or leave it. Sound familiar? Yet Ted and Dromeda's disapproval was strong enough to make Remus miserable for the first half of DH, on top of his own guilty conscience. Dromeda's character is far from perfect, even if she is loads of fun to read and write about. You just have to take it with a grain of salt.

-Penn

[Lola-Louisa]

I personally love Andromeda, but I don't see her as an obvious rebel. I think she probably accepted her family's viewpoints without question and was just a niave little girl.

And then along came Ted Tonks. Where they met, we don't know, but I'm thinking post-Hogwarts.

I'm also thinking another reason for her to rebel is that she was arranged to marry someone she didn't like. She knew the expectations, but to her they didn't become reality until a certain point. Maybe she was betrothed to someone she knew wasn't a very nice person and that began to make her challenge her family's way of life.

Then she met Ted and fell in love. I think when they first met she would have began challenging her families ideals and he just opened her eyes further. If she had been prejudiced from the beginning, I don't think she would have given Ted the time of day.

Personally, I've always seen Andromeda as a Hufflepuff at heart, because she didn't disown Tonks when she married Remus, like her own family did to her. She may have been disgusted, but the point is, she looked after their kid when they both died. She obviously wasn't going to completely change her beliefs: there is always something of what you have been taught from an early age set deep inside you. I think that she still felt some kind of loyalty to her family, because she didn't join the Order.

As for what Penn said, I think that Sirius may have influenced Andromeda a little, but she was seven years older than him and by the time he got really rebellious, she was probably already married to Ted.

Lola x

[Padfoot Patronus]

Andromeda before Hogwarts:

Brought up with strict family protocols, taught the idea of pure-bloods being worthy than other magic-kinds, learnt to be proud about these believes (thus the remaining impressions of haughtiness even in old age)...

...and younger sister to Bellatrix. Before Hogwarts that influenced a lot how Andromeda would think and behave. Excluding extreme circumstances, generally speaking Andromeda was probably made to look upto Bella as older sister. Bella being the first child, was taught the family believes very passiontely. Usually they are expected to set example for the younger siblings.

Andromeda might've likely at those early years felt a bit frustrated at the rules and believes being imposed and reinforced. Welcome in, being asked to be like Bella all the time.

The haughtiness is a family trait: Sirius, Andromeda, Narcissa..., who says it cant be used as an answer to a parent on the rare occasions you dont feel like being bugged.

We could think of Andromeda's hierarchy among the Black sisters. Bella being the first, is given the sole love and attention of the family, also the trust to bring goodwill to the family name. Andromeda comes next. The parents do the same with her, but just not like they did with Bella. The parents loosen a bit and Andromeda watches the family believes on more occasions rather than following them. Like I said, she's expected to learn from Bella, the perfect daughter. Narcissa is the quiet daughter, as much loved as the others. She is an obervant daughter, cared for by the others, and by now learning the believes intuitionely. She takes in both her elder sisters and looks up to them.

By the time Andromeda reaches 10 or 11, Bella is still the perfect daughter, and Narcissa has developed the Black family style much more confidently and perfectly than Andromeda when she was Narcissa's age.

Andromeda at Hogwarts and after:

Sorted into Slytherin like the whole lot (thus did not have to face the reaction Sirius might've faced) ...and Bella is still at Howarts. More to be compared to, more to look upto, well sometimes it can be annoying.

I suspect as well that her family knew next to nothing until the very end when she made that final betrayal to them.

becase quiet possibly:

the marriage was a little more shocking than Sirius’ running away.

thus explaining the blasting off ceremony.

I think Andromeda's relationship with Ted was definitely not open to public eyes then. Imagine something like being frustrated with your own thoughts and finding someone like Ted, who looks beyond your blood, background, and promises to listen.

At Hogwarts, Andromeda probably fought many battles with her mind. She's still the Black daughter but willing to change for someone now. This is big for her.

Andromeda is born somewhere before 1955. This gives her a 5+ age lead over Sirius.

She earned Sirius' 'favourite cousin' title probably during Hogwarts and after that. Sirius is sorted into Gryffindor when Andromeda is in her final years or has already left. He goes home at Christmas, to listen to the normal rants of him being sorted into the wrong house. Everybody discredits him. If Andromeda was already dating Ted, she would support the other's views. What if Sirius found out she was sneaking out one night to meet Ted or something. She gains Sirius' praise for being adventurous and daring.

When he leaves his parents' house, Andromeda's well into her life out of Hogwarts. I read somewhere that James and Lily's first defiance took place at Hogwarts. If this is the case, and Voldemort is recruiting more people, Regulus dies, Orion dies, Ted is probably in danger with his life, Andromeda makes a decision.

She marries Ted.

Akay

[OliveOil_Med]

What form do you think Andromeda's Patronus would take?

Also, it seems agreed that Andromeda was a Slytherin. What qualities of the house do you believe she possessed?

How do think she would have raised Teddy? How do think this would have influenced what house he was Sorted into by the time he was old enough to attend Hogwarts?

[LuNaLoVeGoOdLoVer]

Not that I'm a big Andromeda expert, even if I really really like her, but I think it's possible that she was quieter - not smaller minded - than her sister, so as you guys said, it came as a bigger shock that she didn't agreed with her family views. They might not have known she was not fully convinced of their ways, because she just didn't voice them that often, since she might have just observed life mare than taking emmidiate action. In DH, she doesn't seems rather quite, although that might be because she's scared about Tonks....
Concerning Ted: I think she might have already doubted her family ways when she fell in love with Ted, and he was just the last push.

Don't know if that made sense or was helpfull, but I hope it was!
-Andrea

Oh, new questions! Ok:

What form do you think Andromeda's Patronus would take?
Actually, I have no idea..Maybe a cat? Cunning, quite, curious...

Also, it seems agreed that Andromeda was a Slytherin. What qualities of the house do you believe she possessed?
Well, she was defianetly proud, we can agree on that (DH-had slightly hauty look). I think it says HAUGHTY, and Griffendors are proud too, but not so much HAUGHTY (I think).
Also, when she was sorted she may not have formed her own beliefs yet, she was only eleven (If she would have been sorted later, she may have been in another house???)
And she was smart (Canon evidence: She was in Slytherin, who are cunning, and to be cunning you have to be rather smart [Goyle? SMART?] and she figured out her family views were wrong.


How do think she would have raised Teddy? How do think this would have influenced what house he was Sorted into by the time he was old enough to attend Hogwarts?
She didn't raise Teddy alone, the Potters and the Weasleys obviously helped a lot. How ANDROMEDA influenced him...hmmm...I'll come back to this!



Ok: Well, I thought about it, and I think Andromeda, as an expirienced mother would raise Teddy the same way she did Tonks - after all, Tonks turned out all right, didn't she??? :P




(Oh, a question (that doesn't really fit in this thread, but this is the best place, I think): I want to make (haha attempt to make) a banner with text that says something like 'Not black, Not white Andromeda Gray is the Way' But that doesn't really fit, does it? Since she's all good...I thought about using it for Snape, but that doesn't fit either...what do you think? Any ideas???)

[Circe_Rocks]

I think (I may be wrong) that Andromeda and Ted were in the order. For one thing, all the safe houses had something to do with the order, and I can't believe that they would send Harry with people not even in the order.

Also, her views could have started when Bellatrix started at Hogwarts. Bellatrix's ideas probably began to be more radical, and when she came home on break, Andromeda probably heard them. Unlike Bellatrix, Andromeda probably had a stronger feeling of right and wrong, which couldn't be changed by the sister she probably didn't have much respect for. For one thing, she was probably bullied by her sisters for being different. If she didn't have those feelings, she wouldn't have given Ted a chance.

[LuNaLoVeGoOdLoVer]

I see what you're all saying about Andromeda starting to have different views than her family before she came to Hogwarts and if this were so, she couldn't have had to strong a oppinion yet since she got sorted into Slytherin...???

[psijupiter]

I see what you're all saying about Andromeda starting to have different views than her family before she came to Hogwarts and if this were so, she couldn't have had to strong a oppinion yet since she got sorted into Slytherin...???

Even if she disagreed strongly with her family, she might display Slytherin traits. For example, an ambition to prove herself to be better than they are, and sly and cunning enough to keep her beliefs a secret until she could support herself. I can definately see the whole 'looking out for youself' aspect, as everyone says, her marriage to Ted was prbably a huge shock, because it seemed to come out of nowhere.

Personally, I'm torn. I don't know if Andromeda would have started quetioning her family's beliefs before she came to Hogwarts. She might dislike being second-best to Bellatrix and struggle to live up to her parents expectations, but I don't know if she would really have started questioning her parents beliefs until she was at school, where she meet different people and different ideas. I can imagine her childhood being very isolated, not meeting anyone who disagreed with her parents beliefs.

[Racing Co]

I'm actually working on a fic right now that takes place during Andromeda's third year (I believe), and my two OCs are older Slytherins. That said, I've given this "good Slytherin" business a lot of thought because I don't think my characters are "bad" but personality-wise they belong best in the "bad" House.

The way I see it, I envision the pre-war era (mid/late 1960s) as a time of great change in the Slytherin House. It's a time for choosing sides, and deciding what's important. After all, there are students growing up in Slytherin who already have or will ally themselves with Voldemort very soon. However, these are first-generation Death Eaters, and I don't believe their radical, abusive behavior towards Muggle-born students has filtered through the whole House just yet. There's one thing to inwardly think you're better than a student who came from a Muggle family (which was probably Andromeda's sentiment at the start); it's an entirely different thing to start jinxing them in the hallways.

I think merely being in such a House would force decision-making for Andromeda. To me, it would be in her middle years at Hogwarts that she'd have to come to a sort of realization about what is happening in Slytherin. Can she follow her older sister? Or is there another, less radical road to take?

[Equinox Chick]

Not that I'm a big Andromeda expert, even if I really really like her, but I think it's possible that she was quieter - not smaller minded - than her sister, so as you guys said, it came as a bigger shock that she didn't agreed with her family views.

I'm not sure about this. Although I believe she wouldn't have been quite so voluble about the Black prejudices as Bellatrix and Narcissa, she was pretty awful to Remus. Ted and Andromeda both make their feelings perfectly clear when Tonks marries him. Of course he's a werewolf and I have no doubt they're worried about her, but at the same time Remus feels extremely ostracised by her family (and that's not just Bellatrix).

Also, it seems agreed that Andromeda was a Slytherin. What qualities of the house do you believe she possessed?
Perhaps when she was Sorted she believed purebloods were the best. If she'd been as rebellious as Sirius then she would have been Sorted elsewhere after all. But we also have to weigh up the fact that not all Slytherins are EVIL! I always think of the fact that Slytherin wanted ambitious students - with a thirst to prove themselves. With Bellatrix as the already imposing older sister and Narcissa as the baby, Andromeda is very much stuck in the middle and possibly overlooked.

I think (I may be wrong) that Andromeda and Ted were in the order. For one thing, all the safe houses had something to do with the order, and I can't believe that they would send Harry with people not even in the order.
They weren't in the Order the first time around. I imagine that as newish parents (Tonks born 1973) they wouldn't have been actively recruited. Also it's possible that Andromeda, being a Black, a Slytherin and married toa Muggleborn wasn't quite trusted by either side so they stayed out of the first war. I agree that the use of their house could suggest they were in the Order, but Aunt Muriel's house was also used (Ron and Tonks went there) so it doesn't follow that they were fully fledged Order members. They were Tonks' parents and Remus in-laws, that could be a good enough reason to trust them.

How do think she would have raised Teddy? How do think this would have influenced what house he was Sorted into by the time he was old enough to attend Hogwarts?
He had a lot of other influences. The Weasleys, the Potters, all proclaiming Gryffindor (as well as his father). But whilst I doubt Andromeda would have pushed him towards Slytherin, ( or Gryffindor) I think she may have tried to nudge him the way of Hufflepuff - like her daughter (and perhaps her husband). Andromeda would have been the perfect person to raise Teddy, because she knew about Metamorphmagi.
Where someone places Teddy is purely subjective. I incline towards Gryffindor, because I think he'd want to be like his dad and godfather, but I've seen an excellent case for Ravenclaw too.

Carole
xxx