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  1. #1
    LunarEclipse
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    Neville Longbottom

    What do you think makes Neville so courageous? In the *SPOILERS* end of DH he is very brave, and I thought it was totally odd.

  2. #2
    ron_chaser
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    Bravery

    *DH SPOILERS*

    I think there are many aspects that make Neville so brave. He showed more bravery in DH than ever, but it has been there all along.


    First of all, Neville values integrity and honor, which allows him to stand up to what he believes in. For example, in SS/PS, when Neville tries to stop Harry, Ron, and Hermione from going to save the stone, Dumbledore calls this very courageous. He holds Gryffindor integrity very high, and he does not want the trio giving it a bad name. This idea that
    Neville's bravery is guided by integrity also in apparent in DH. Neville stands up for his beliefs that the unforgivable curses are terrible, so he stands up to the Carrows. Also in OOTP, when Neville meets Bellatrix, he is determined to hold up his family name. Neville is a character that does not falter in his beliefs, and this is his incentive to be courageous. I believe that honor outweighs his fear, so for him, honor and courage go hand in hand.


    The other quality that really makes him brave, is his determination. Neville time and time again tries his best at anything that he does. One of the best examples of this is in OOTP during DA, and Neville learns of the escape of Bellatrix, Harry notices that Neville was more determined than ever and he was the quickest to learn the spells, other than Hermione (chapter 25). A smaller, but nonetheless good example, is Neville's desire to take as many NEWT level classes as possible, even if his OWL scores weren't the greatest.


    Neville has always been a brave character in my eyes. He may not show it as the other Gryffindors do, but he is courageous. His beliefs and determination outweigh his fear, which allows his brave side to shine through!


    So, that is how Neville is so brave, in my opinion!


    Christina

  3. #3
    LunarEclipse
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    Thanks!

    Thanks! I really needed that, and it's great to have others opinions! I agree with you, on all aspects. I'm writing a story about neville and another charcter, and I needed to know this!

  4. #4
    ron_chaser
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    No problem! It gave me a good chance to think about Neville as a character and it helped me realize that bravery is one of his core underlying qualities.

  5. #5
    First Year Ravenclaw
    In the Cupboard Under the Stairs
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    Okay, well I thought I'd better add my opinion after the fact as the self-appointed Neville expert that I am

    In my view, the key to Neville's character, at least to begin with, is his extremely low self-esteem. From PS through to the beginning of OOTP (witness his "I'm nobody" quote) no one, with the possible exception of Snape, has a lower opinion of Neville than he does himself. Whilst his change in OOTP allows him to grow in confidence, a vestige of this trait remains part of him.

    Put simply, Neville believes that other people are far more important than he himself, and it is this fact that is at the core of his bravery. His low self-esteem morphs into selflessness, where he puts the needs of others above those of himself. The first hint of that is in PS where he tries to stop the trio, not because it will affect him, but because he thinks the trio themselves, and Gryffindor as a whole, will suffer. In OOTP at the Ministry, he is prepared to suffer at the hands of the Death Eaters who tortured his parents, rather than have Harry give up the prophecy.

    Finally, in DH, he suffers a whole year of torment at the hands of the Carrows, which he shrugs off lightly, because in his view it was worth it, because it helped protect and give hope to his fellow students. He confronts Voldemort, without thought for his personal safety, because Harry had given him a job to do: kill the snake.

    I agree that Neville has a high degree of integrity, to him there is nothing more important than a cause which is just. Note his choice of battle cry in front of Voldemort: Dumbledore's Army! He does not lead for himself, it does not matter if he falls, if the right outcome is achieved. In this he is just as selfless as Harry, if not more so.

    It is interesting to note that, despite the provocation, Neville does not seek revenge. In the end it is Molly who takes down Bellatrix, whilst Neville is fighting Greyback. His determination to become a better wizard in OOTP is not driven by a desire to go after Bellatrix, there's no sign that he does so either in OOTP or DH. Rather, it is the determination to see that no others suffer his parents' fate which spurs him into action.

    I doubt that Neville, even at the end of DH, considers himself brave, he just thinks he did the right and necessary thing. His is the highest form of bravery, he does what he does so that others may be safe and happy, and expects no acknowledgement of his achievements.

    I'm sure you can tell how much I like Neville! I hope my own personal take on him is useful to you.
    "What if strange things happened all the time?"
    "Thatíd be very strange."
    "No, thatís the point, itíd be normal."
    Allan Ahlberg


    Ever wondered what would have happened if Voldemort had chosen his enemy differently? Read the Neville Longbottom saga:


  6. #6
    CakeorDeath
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    Can I ask a new question?

    Well, here goes:

    What do you think Neville would be like as a teacher?

  7. #7
    thegreylady
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunarEclipse
    What do you think makes Neville so courageous? In the *SPOILERS* end of DH he is very brave, and I thought it was totally odd.
    In DH, I fell in love with what Neville had become. I didn't see it as odd at all.

    When Neville came to Hogwarts, he kind of had this protective shell around him. He was kind of afraid of being courageous. Neville was so timid in the first few books. We rarely saw him show that Gryffindor spirit that many other Gryffies possess. He kind of hid it, like Hermione did in PS (SS for you Americans ) and a bit in COS. When Neville joined the DA, he sort of made room for courage. He didn't try to hide it or anything of that sort. It's hard to explain what I'm thinking. But, after the battle at the Ministry, he started to open up and he didn't necessarily become more brave, but he showed his bravery. After Harry didn't return to Hogwarts in DH, Neville kind of told himself that he could stop the Death Eaters. Harry wasn't there, so he convinced himself he had to do it. Then he became that true Gryffindor that was inside of him that he wouldn't let out, because he was afraid before. Do you get what I'm trying to say? It might sound like total hogwash, but it's hard to put it into words. Neville was hiding that bravery inside of him for fear of being daring. In DH, he really opened up and became the person that was trying to come out, I think. But maybe I'm just loony.

    Quote Originally Posted by Padfoot Patronus
    - When do you think Neville likely took this job?
    - Would he have asked for the post or do you think the Head (McGonagall?) offered it to him?
    - Do you think his pre-Hogwarts Professor job would involve herbology in some way, given his interest for the subject?
    - What could likely be Neville's weaknesses?
    1. I think Neville took the job when he was about twenty. Seems like a reasonable age for me, and Professor Sprout probably wouldn't retire a day after the battle. Over five years seems like too much to me, though.

    2. I think it was offered to him. Neville really thought highly of himself, and I couldn't ever see him asking for the job. He was so humble, like Thegirllikeme said. I think he was recommended for it by Professor Sprout.

    3. I don't think so. I think he was not really doing much before it, or perhaps he was working in a Herbology shop, if those exist. xD I can't see him doing anything big with Herbology before he became a teacher, though.

    4. That's a tough question. Neville's weakness could of been somewhat like Harry's. He'd defend those he loved or deeply cared about with his life. He might also be a bit of a push-over in classes. Poor Neville. Haha, but still, he might be kind of timid. I can't see him being extremely strict. He'd be a good teacher but he wouldn't put his foot down too fast.

    Hope I helped! Sorry my answers are so short and confusing.

  8. #8
    Third Year Slytherin
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    BlackHairedWeasley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunarEclipse
    What do you think makes Neville so courageous? In the *SPOILERS* end of DH he is very brave, and I thought it was totally odd.
    I completely disagree that it was odd for him to be that brave in Deathly Hallows. After all, it was a pretty important part of PS/SS that Neville stood up to the Trio (albeit quickly losing that battle). It proved that Neville, though the butt of everyone's jokes and torment, had courage. Courage that was even recognised by Dumbledore at the end.

    Then (after having Neville as a minor, almost nonexistent character in CoS and PoA) he came back in GoF in the infamous imposter!Moody classroom scene. That scene did wonders for his character. It not only gave him depth, but imagine the courage to see exactly what your parents went through which drove them into insanity. Now imagine how you would have taken that. I know that I personally would have taken it a lot harder than Neville, much less have a casual tea with the man that showed it to me almost immediately afterward.

    OotP speaks for itself. I can't tell you how many times I've had to cite its final chapters when speaking of Neville's character, bravery and courage. This kid heard Bellatrix Lestrange threaten them with the Cruciatus Curse and pretty much said "Bring it on, *****!" How many Aurors, much less grown wizards, much less adolescent wizards his age, would have the courage to do that?

    Finally, how many of these "courageous" Gryffindors and "loyal" Hufflepuffs answered the call at the end of HBP? Aside of the Trio, Ginny Luna and Neville were the only ones to come and fight.

    Because of all that, it makes perfect sense that Neville would be at the level he was during DH. It makes sense that he would take Harry's leadership role back at Hogwarts, and that he would recall painful suffering of punishment with a nonchalant shrug.

    Quote Originally Posted by CakeorDeath
    What do you think he would be like as a dad?
    Ooooohhh, that's a tough one. Especially considering him being raised by his Gran. I'm not sure if he would be like his Gran, or try to be the opposite. It's clear his Gran was not a bad parent. She was strict, but she loved him and was extremely proud of him. that leads me to believe he might emulate his Gran when it comes to parenting. Although, his Gran might want to be in her great-grandchild's life (assuming she's still around, of course) so she might end up giving Neville parenting advice. Just some thoughts to work with, since I know this topic has been pretty well discussed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Padfoot Patronus
    - When do you think Neville likely took this job?
    You have nineteen years to work with, since it doesn't say when Professor Sprout left her position, or when Neville was hired. Who knows, there might have been another professor in between who left for other options (or was fired >.>) Let's consult the Lexicon, shall we? Pamona Sprout's birthday is May 15, though a year is not provided. We do know that she has grey/flyaway hair, which could give the assumption that she is older. Now since she is working in a more hands-on, practical field than, say, transfiguration, it is easy to believe that she would retire earlier in age than McGonagall or Dumbledore.

    In this case it's really up for grabs. See, it's not hard to imagine Professor Sprout leaving a year or two after Year7's completion, in a sort of passing-of-the-torch fashion, but I think it would be a little more interesting to have her go on for . . . let's say ten years after Voldemort's fall. That sounds good, because it gives Neville some time out in the world, but still leaves enough time to become an established professor once the time of the epilogue rolls around.

    Quote Originally Posted by Padfoot Patronus
    - Would he have asked for the post or do you think the Head (McGonagall?) offered it to him?
    - Do you think his pre-Hogwarts Professor job would involve herbology in some way, given his interest for the subject?
    Well...
    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Potter Lexicon
    Career: Post-battle, worked in the Ministry for Kingsley Shacklebolt (PC/JKR1), then became Herbology professor at Hogwarts (DH/e).
    Everyone seems to be working for the Ministry these days! Why not have him working in an apothecary? His herbological skills seem well-prepared to handle it. Although, now that I think of it, it's a potions shop, and he was a little less than stellar in Potions . . . Maybe he could work for a potion ingredient company in sales. Or possibly working to research new plant properties/abilities/uses. There's a lot of possibilities when you brainstorm. We don't hear much about companies or research facilities in these books. I'd normally say to make up a wizarding university, since so much research is done at universities, but Jo has said there aren't any. But then again, we've only seen Wizarding Britain, and since many plants are indigenous elsewhere and not found in Britian, I can see Neville traveling to foreign nations to do research on their plantlife. It would also give a great setup to him being offered the position once Professor Sprout retires. (Note: I'm a sucker for AU, so that's where this is stemming from. You can write whatever you want, and can follow canon as much as you wish.)

    Well, it would obviously involve Herbology. I highly doubt he would want to be an Auror, and I can't see him working in a pub or a shop or something. Although I suppose you could make the latter work in a way. Say, he's out of school and he's in his third year of a job in Diagon Alley (or Hogsmeade, because obviously these are the only wizarding communities in Britian -__-) and he hates it and wants a better, Herbology-related job, and he finds out that Professor Sprout is retiring, and so upon visiting her, they talk and decide he could very well do the job, so she recommends him for the position. That seems just a bit too convenient for my personal taste, but it's still doable. With good characterisation and dialogue I'm sure it'd be a great read. See above for more ideas.

    Quote Originally Posted by Padfoot Patronus
    - What could likely be Neville's weaknesses?
    CONFIDENCE! Above all else, Neville's weakness is his lack of confidence. It's the main reason why he was such a late-bloomer in the D.A., it is THE reason why he blew his shot at N.E.W.T. Potions . . . It is the one thing that hurts him the most.
    Goodbye, everyone.
    Thanks for the memories.

  9. #9
    cmwinters
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackHairedWeasley
    OotP speaks for itself. I can't tell you how many times I've had to cite its final chapters when speaking of Neville's character, bravery and courage. This kid heard Bellatrix Lestrange threaten them with the Cruciatus Curse and pretty much said "Bring it on, *****!" How many Aurors, much less grown wizards, much less adolescent wizards his age, would have the courage to do that?
    And let's give Neville his just due in this scene, shall we?

    Not only did Bellatrix threaten them, she specifically threatened Neville with the same treatment his parents had; she threatened to torture him into insanity, and Neville knew *exactly* how that would leave him.

    Yet there, with a broken nose, blood running down his face, and this psychotic sadist's wand at him, he screams at Harry not to give in to her. He would rather have been tortured into mindlessness or killed than let them have a small silver ball. Even HARRY was contemplating giving the Prophecy over.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlackHairedWeasley
    Ooooohhh, that's a tough one. Especially considering him being raised by his Gran. I'm not sure if he would be like his Gran, or try to be the opposite. It's clear his Gran was not a bad parent. She was strict, but she loved him and was extremely proud of him. that leads me to believe he might emulate his Gran when it comes to parenting. Although, his Gran might want to be in her great-grandchild's life (assuming she's still around, of course) so she might end up giving Neville parenting advice. Just some thoughts to work with, since I know this topic has been pretty well discussed.
    Eh, on Augusta, I disagree. She fits the description of a psychological torturer pretty well. It's one of the reasons I think Alice was in Hufflepuff, because it seems like Augusta always disregarded her, or kind of dismissed her, even though Alice, too, was an Auror. And granted, Frank was Alice's son, but she seems to have NO affection for Alice at all.

    That was my take on the scene, anyway.

  10. #10
    Amber0_o
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    Quote Originally Posted by thegirllikeme
    Also, I think that same desire to care for those he loves would lead him to be more timid. In his desire to make others happy, he would compromise himself, like the scenario I gave you about his grandmother and the Auror. However, I think this is something he would conquer or would only effect him slightly. But, yes, that's what his weakness would be.
    But I don't think he would go as far as Remus did and turn a blind eye to what his friends/family were doing if he knew it was wrong. Look at PS/SS, he stood up to Hermione, Ron, and Harry despite being outnumbered and the pressure to simply stand aside and let things happen as they would. He had the courage to stand up for what he believed in, even if it might mean losing him a friend or two.

    So while he might change himself to make others happy, I don't think he would go so far as to cover for/participate in something that he knew to be wrong.

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