Horace Slughorn

[pokethedevil]

This has been bugging me for quiet a while now...>.<

Why was Horace Slughorn in Slytherin?

So far, all the Slytherins we know are cunning, mean, snobbish brats.
Slughorn is cunning of course, and I admit he can be a bit mean as well, like when he ignored Ron in HBP...
But I've never seen him as a real Slytherin...more like a Slythpuff, no?

He preffered those who excelled in certain fields and showered them with all the attention in the world; some of those people liked him for it but other -like Harry- didn't.

He's this fat, round-bellied, mustached, sphere-like, pineapple loving guy who doesn't really do anyone any harm.

On the other hand, he's intelligent, cunning and loves his luxuries...like a Slytherin??

Opinions anyone??

[Pondering]

I think Slughorn is a good example of a Slytherin who wasn't a Death Eater. Seriously--of all the Slytherins we known in the books, they were either Death Eaters or associates. The Slytherin House doesn't exist for the purpose of 'here is where the evil, pure-blood maniacs go,' but rather a place for the cunning, which Slughorn is.

Yes, he helps people, but he only helps them because his own association with them will help him--the people he helps already have 'it', they don't really need his help, but he helps them regardless so he can reap the benefits.

Slughorn certainly has the save-his-own skin quality about him, seen especially when he is reluctant to rejoin the teaching staff at Hogwarts because of the the Death Eaters.

Slughorn uses people. It's not exactly nice, for the people who he is using and the people who he's not, but he's not evil, which people seem to think that Slytherins must be. I don't think the battle in DH helped with that image, really, but that is an entirely different story.

That's just my opinion on Slughorn, others may differ.

--Tash

[cmwinters]

This has been bugging me for quiet a while now...>.<

Why was Horace Slughorn in Slytherin?

So far, all the Slytherins we know are cunning, mean, snobbish brats.

/me gets up, wanders over to wall, aimlessly pounds head repeatedly, and comes back, weeping hopelessly

You have that opinion because that is Harry's opinion, and Harry is the narrator. (And also because Jo apparently despises all Slytherins, but we'll not get in to that just now, shall we?)

May I also add that *NOT* "all" of the Slytherins we've seen are mean snobbish brats. Theodore Nott isn't; neither is Daphne Greengrass. Nor are the Bloody Baron or Andromeda Black Tonks, who was a Slytherin (she was older that Sirius and he is the first in his family to be sorted anywhere other than Slytherin). And I hardly think that either generation of Crabbes and Goyles can be called "cunning" (quite frankly, I'd like to know how either of them even got into the school, much less into Slytherin House).

In fact, for the most part, even Blaise Zabini wasn't that way. We only see him in one VERY biased situation, and quite frankly, Regulus Black doesn't appear to have been that way either. He seems to have joined the Death Eaters because he was young and impressionable and that's what properly brought up young pureblooded men from good families *did*, and by the time he was eighteen, he got out.

Slughorn is cunning of course, and I admit he can be a bit mean as well, like when he ignored Ron in HBP...
But I've never seen him as a real Slytherin...more like a Slythpuff, no?

He preffered those who excelled in certain fields and showered them with all the attention in the world; some of those people liked him for it but other -like Harry- didn't.

He's this fat, round-bellied, mustached, sphere-like, pineapple loving guy who doesn't really do anyone any harm.

On the other hand, he's intelligent, cunning and loves his luxuries...like a Slytherin??

Opinions anyone??

Your opinion of Slytherin appears to be "must be mean, petty, cruel, vicious, childish, spoiled and bratty" . . . completely disregarding that the traits of Slytherin House are cunning and ambition.

Ambition can take many forms. I daresay Alexander the Great would have been Sorted a Slytherin, had he gone to Hogwarts. He was a brave and great warrior, yes, and I'm sure there will be Gryffindors who insist that brave warriors *must* be in their house, but his overriding trait was not his bravery or his ability as a soldier, it was his ambition to take over the world (which . . . he more or less did. By age 30.) I'd say nearly the same for Julius Caesar. I'd place General William Sherman there for his shrewdness and cunning, as well as the Roman general Lucius Cornelius Sulla.

Andromeda's ambition appears to have been to break away from her family and marry for love—a goal she appears to have accomplished. Theodore Nott's ambition was apparently to be his own person, which we have no reason to believe he didn't accomplish. Regulus' sole ambition seems to have been pay the Dark Lord back for His abysmal treatment of Regulus' servant.

It just happens that Slughorn's ambition was to be the man behind the curtain, which he did exceedingly well.

[witch6]

What makes a person a slytherin is his cunning, ambitious and a highly resourceful (in terms of people, i mean) nature.

I guess, we all agree over the fact that Slughorn is cunning. When he helps others succeed, he not only helps them but helps himself too. After all, he too gains something from it, whether it is his favourite pineapple crystals or free tickets for a quidditch match. It even helps him in making people, who he thinks can, succeed. As it is said the ministry is full of Slughorn's favourite's and thus he has excellent contacts there.


I totally agree with the explanation given by cmwinters about Slughorn being ambitious. His ambition was to be more of a director of a movie, to plan it all out and to see it shine and be appreciated, rather than that of an actor, who actually does it and thus, is more popular.


About being able to use people to meet their ends, my ezplanation is similar to the one i gave for cunning. Slughorn did not help just anybody. He helped those who he thought could succeed and thus there was always a guarantee of return from them. He was popular amongst the people who were popular, so, at the end of the day he got what he wanted.


I would like to repeat what several have already said in this thread. Being a slytherin does not mean being evil.

Originally Posted by cmwinters-

You have that opinion because that is Harry's opinion, and Harry is the narrator. (And also because Jo apparently despises all Slytherins, but we'll not get in to that just now, shall we?)

hey, i don't want to be rude or anything but don't you think what you think about Slytherins or the whole of Harry Potter world, actually, is because of what jo said or wrote in her books? i mean you have said that slytherins have to be cunning andambitious, and not evil because it was so in the book. Snape, the bloody baron (he felt sorry about what he did to Helena) and all those other names you mentioned, were not evil because it is so in the books, because Jo does not think that Slytherins are all bad. And about Harry's opinion, harry did not hate just the Slytherins, he hated people like Zacharias Smith too. The Slytherins he hated, Crabbe, Goyle, Narcissa, etc; atleast in my opinion, deserved to be hated. He did not hate Tonk's mother. In fact what he told Albus (potter) in the epilogue prooved that he did not despise the Slytherin house. He has named his kid after a man who was a Slytherin, who had hated his father, who he had hated for 17 years of his life, but stopped when he got to know that he was capable of love. So, i think it is really unfair anyone to say that Harry or Jo despise the Slytherins.

[cmwinters]

hey, i don't want to be rude or anything but don't you think what you think about Slytherins or the whole of Harry Potter world, actually, is because of what jo said or wrote in her books? i mean you have said that slytherins have to be cunning andambitious, and not evil because it was so in the book. Snape, the bloody baron (he felt sorry about what he did to Helena) and all those other names you mentioned, were not evil because it is so in the books, because Jo does not think that Slytherins are all bad. And about Harry's opinion, harry did not hate just the Slytherins, he hated people like Zacharias Smith too. The Slytherins he hated, Crabbe, Goyle, Narcissa, etc; atleast in my opinion, deserved to be hated. He did not hate Tonk's mother. In fact what he told Albus (potter) in the epilogue prooved that he did not despise the Slytherin house. He has named his kid after a man who was a Slytherin, who had hated his father, who he had hated for 17 years of his life, but stopped when he got to know that he was capable of love. So, i think it is really unfair anyone to say that Harry or Jo despise the Slytherins.

No, I don't.

I don't really care to hijack the thread with my rather strong opinions about this, but I and a number of other people do not particularly care for how Slytherins have been portrayed in the book, and although Jo has said "not all Slytherins are evil", quite frankly she's done a rather abysmal job of displaying that.

Harry . . .and honest probably Jo as well, have either forgotten or never bothered to note that Andromeda was a Slytherin to start with. Yes, Crabbe, Goyle, the Death Eaters in general and Narcissa behaved in a manner that Harry considered reprehensible. But not all of them did, and Harry still hated the lot of them, and to be brutally frank, the way this thread was opened proves my point.

That epilogue, in my completely unhumble opinion, was so horrid that the entire story was served better by it not being written. I don't really put much stock into what was said.

[jenny b]

Um ... okay ... going back to the original question. I can't think who said it at the moment, but it was once said that Slytherins would choose to save their own lives rather than other people's like Gryffindors do. I think that portrays Slughorn perfectly. In DH, for example, how worried does he seem when it's time to save the school? Exactly.

[cmwinters]

Um ... okay ... going back to the original question. I can't think who said it at the moment, but it was once said that Slytherins would choose to save their own lives rather than other people's like Gryffindors do.

Phineas Nigellus Black, Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix, US First edition Hardback page 495.

I think that portrays Slughorn perfectly. In DH, for example, how worried does he seem when it's time to save the school? Exactly.

I disagree; I think he doesn't do this at all in DH. In HBP, yes, when he's running from the Death Eaters.

And again, this is subjective. Surely there was a SINGLE other Slytherin whose family weren't Death Eaters who would have felt that fighting against the Dark Lord and His forces would have been in their own best interest.

I think I need a break.

[pokethedevil]

You have that opinion because that is Harry's opinion, and Harry is the narrator.

Alright, alright, I admit my opinon is based on Harry's opinion

BUT

Your opinion of Slytherin appears to be "must be mean, petty, cruel, vicious, childish, spoiled and bratty" . . . completely disregarding that the traits of Slytherin House are cunning and ambition.

I DID say that Slughorn is cunning!! And I didn't said that all slytherins are vicious, spoiled and bratty and definitely not childish!

So far, all the Slytherins we know are cunning, mean, snobbish brats.
Slughorn is cunning of course,

It just happens that Slughorn's ambition was to be the man behind the curtain, which he did exceedingly well.

Point noted.

And again, this is subjective. Surely there was a SINGLE other Slytherin whose family weren't Death Eaters who would have felt that fighting against the Dark Lord and His forces would have been in their own best interest.

The whole of Slytherin house got up and left after Mcgonagall and the rest were done with explaining everything.
Not one of the Slytherins stayed back and fought, I believe, because they were too afraid of the Dark Lord. Remember what he said to Lucius in the Shack?
As for Slughorn, Mcgonagall asked him to make a choice, he made the right one.

And

Harry . . .and honest probably Jo as well, have either forgotten or never bothered to note that Andromeda was a Slytherin to start with. Yes, Crabbe, Goyle, the Death Eaters in general and Narcissa behaved in a manner that Harry considered reprehensible. But not all of them did, and Harry still hated the lot of them, and to be brutally frank, the way this thread was opened proves my point.

Hey, sorry if you took any offence from what I said earlier. I don't have anything against Slytherin House.
I never said that Slytherin House stood for all *or only* that is Evil.
They just don't have a lot of goodness in them. Not all of them are Evil but more than half ARE. And frankly, my opinion is going to be based on that lot.

As I said earlier, my opinion of Slytherin House is Hary's opinion, because that is what is in the books.Like the Sorting Hat's song...

Those cunning folk use any means
To achieve their ends

[wewillmissyou]

Horace Slughorn was in Slytherin because he was cunning and ambitous.

An example of his cunning would be the great extremes he goes to hide himself from Dumbledore when he comes to recruit him to be a teacher. He tears apart a house, woth five minutes warning. I honestly find that incredible.

And an example of his ambition would be his "Slug Club". He really uses his students to become powerful, proving that he is not at all lazy and slacking off on his dreams. Again, his cunning comes into play, he doesn't have to deal with the mess that comes with being in the spotlight. He is just as powerful with less work.

I'd have to say, I orginally didn't like Slughorn because he seemed like a lazy arse, but he really was quite clever.

So I'd have to say Slytherin is perfect for him.

(Oh, and Cmwinters, I actucally went and looked up the quote, now I have to go reread OotP instead of doing my essay. )

[Hermoine Jean Granger]

What, according to you, are the characteristics that Slughorn looks for when he admits members into his 'Slug Club'?