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Thread: The Fidelius Charm

  1. #11
    Hypatia
    Guest
    Not if the notes were written for a particular person. If Dumbledore writes a note for Harry, and Moody delivers it, then it is Dumbledore that has divulged the secret. If Moody reads the letter, assuming he was already in on the secret, then it remains a secret. If Moody reads the letter to Tonks, assuming she was already in on the secret, then it remains a secret. Yet because he was not the master of the secret, Moody would have been unable to pass the note on to say...Lavender Brown. Either his arm would not move, or the parchment would not unfurl, or whatever, but it wouldn't be possible.
    I doubt that the intended recipient of the note matters, otherwise Moody wouldn’t have set fire to it as soon as Harry had read it. I expect if someone else had read the note, it would be the same as them having overheard Dumbledore telling Harry the location. If the intended recipient were of importance, I’d expect that the note would have begun, “Dear Harry”.

  2. #12
    cmwinters
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by red haired mom
    You all know that we are going on the assumption that it was the entire Potter family under the effects of the Fidelius. I could have only been the house, or one of the family members.
    But if it was only one of them, it would have been Harry, because it was Harry that was the target, and the Potters should have known that.

    Quote Originally Posted by red haired mom
    That is another thing JKR never said anything remotely resembling a definitive answer. And then changed her mind about twenty times to suit her needs.

    This could go round and round forever, but unless someone can persuede JKR to give that definitive answer, we can probably just make it how we wish it to be, as I have.
    Ah, now you're beginning to sound like me. I'm not entirely sure I *want* her to "clarify" because the last about five times she's done that she's contradicted herself.

    Quote Originally Posted by red haired mom
    Hagrid had to have either been told, or he didn't need to be told. If he were told, then he would know who the Secret Keeper was. And if he didn't need to be told, then it was because the charm was either broken, (not needed anymore) or Harry wasn't protected by it, take your pick.

    I honestly think the charm broke. It wasn't needed anymore, because the ones it was hiding were dead. We never saw exactly what Peter told Voldemort, and we never saw who or what the charm protected.
    Or, it could be that because the Secret was revealed to the person it was being hidden from.

    Maybe?


  3. #13
    megan_lupin
    Guest
    I've always thought that the EXACT terms of a Fidelius Charm would be very, very important -- as in the precise thing that's being hidden. (Sort of like how Neville specified the Room of Requirement was; you just had to know *exactly* what you wanted and ask for that.) Basically, you have to cover all the possible loopholes in the contract, if you will.

    Take Dumbledore's note in OotP:
    The location of the headquarters of the Order of the Phoenix can be found at number twelve, Grimmauld Place, London.
    It wasn't saying "The Order of the Phoenix is here" or something more general, but it was getting as specific as possible in terms of the secret.

    It's possible that such was the kind that the Potters had, more on the *location* than on the actual *people* involved, if that makes sense.

    If it's the location of the Potters' house that's actually the secret, then it's a possibility that the charm was destroyed when the house was, which would account for why everyone could see it after Voldemort's attack. (And Hagrid wasn't the only one. The Ministry and everyone else had to have been able to view it and such, and there's no way that Peter wrote notes or anything of the sort to all of them.)

    It would also make sense with what is said in Lily's letter to Sirius that's given in DH. (I'm still trying to decide if they're actually under the Fidelius at this time, because if they are, then it would mean that Bathilda Bagshot knew the secret, but if they weren't, it's a bit of hole in my theory.)

    Anyway, she says something along the lines of James getting tired of being trapped in the house, and he can't go out because Dumbledore still has the Invisibility Cloak. IF the Potters are under the Fidelius Charm at this time, it would imply that the charm was more protecting the HOUSE rather than the PEOPLE, and if James was to step outside, he would be visible as anything, because he's no longer in the protection of the Fidelius Charmed-house.

    But then again, I have a HUGE problem with the way that the whole Fidelius Charm protected Grimmauld Place and death-of-the-Secret-Keeper thing was handled in DH, going completely against the FAQ answer on Jo's site.

    Truly, though, it just seemed like a way to get the trio to leave Grimmauld Place, and even if that was the case, it still doesn't fit exactly.

    In DH, Hermione says that the death of Dumbledore (the Secret Keeper) caused everyone in on the secret to become Secret Keepers themselves. [All right, let's just take this as fact right now, and move on.]

    Then, after the events at the Ministry, she brings Yaxley into Grimmauld Place before instantly Apparating into a forest. [Fine, OK, moving on.]

    Hermione answers by saying that, because she was, in effect, a Secret Keeper because of Dumbledore's death, that now after bringing Yaxley in, he knew the secret and could get into Grimmauld Place. [Still, everything can fit with the explanation given in DH, if we're taking THAT as the fact.]

    HOWEVER, it completely contradicts itself with the conclusion drawn from such. If Hermione was Secret Keeper and told Yaxley (however indirectly), then YAXLEY is the ONLY one who can get in. He can't just bring a bunch of Death Eater pals over, as he isn't a Secret Keeper unless Hermione dies, since we're going by the explanation in Deathly Hallows ONLY. It would work the same way as the reason why Snape couldn't have told anyone the secret of the Order while Dumbledore was alive: Snape was in on the secret, yes, but he couldn't pass the knowledge on to anyone else.

    Like I said, I seriously think that it was strictly a way to get the trio out of Grimmauld Place, and even in doing that, it's contradicting itself.

    [/end rant]

    But no, back to my specific answer. Flitwick describes the Charm as being "immensely complex" and that could also be used for the idea that the specific terms of the Charm are very, very important. While the magic itself could be quite difficult and whatnot, I think the fact of needing specific terms would also help it to become "immensely complex".

    Gah, there was something else I had on my mind, but now I can't remember it. If I do, though, I'll just have to add it later.

    ~Megan

  4. #14
    wewillmissyou
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by FullofLife
    My questions:

    1) Is the Secret Keeper the one who casts the charm?
    2) Can the Secret Keeper be the one who is being protected by the charm? (e.g. Could James have been his own Secret Keeper? Why/Why not?)
    3) What happens if the Secret Keeper's (or Keepers's) memory (memories) is (are) wiped?
    I am pretty sure the Secret Keeper may cast the charm but I think the ones being protected could too.

    I think the Secret Keeper could not be the one who is being protected y the charm because I feel that defeats the purpose. I'm saying this in the case of James and Lily, not in OotP but I will adress that in a second. Since the Fidelius Charm is protecting three people, the Secret Keeper can not be any of those three people, including James. One, because James needs to stay in constant hiding and wouldn't be able to tell anyone the location. The second reason that I feel the charm works on a certain trust compound. For you surely couldn't betray yourself, so I think that is tricking the charm almost. Another reason is that the Secret Keeper could make sure you weren't completley isolated. He or she would visit, I assume, and tell those only trustworthy. I think the charm was created to help create make wizards united, if they were forced to go into hiding and force out the loyalty and good in themselves.

    Regarding the Order of the Phoenix, Dumbledore was the secret-keeper and while resided at Number 12, was kept hidden. Yet, nobody but Sirius was trully hiding. Everyone except Sirius were allowed to roam the streets. The Fidelius Charm was really on the house and organazation, so the Secret Keeper was only giving it to members of this association.

    I think that the Fidelius Charm would be strong enough to break through a memory charm because I'm pretty sure the creator would have anticiapted this. And its a secret that you can't afoord to forget so I think even if you had your whole memory wiped, you would still remember that.

    Hope I helped!

  5. #15
    FullofLife
    Guest
    Thanks guys, I have all I need. Mods, you can pack this away.

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