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Thread: ~Vampires~New Line of Questioning~

  1. #1
    FaunaCaritas
    Guest

    ~Vampires~New Line of Questioning~

    Let me first make it crystal clear that I have read the archived material on Vampires. There is no need, for my sake, to repeat what has been said before. I have practically commited it to memory. This is a new line of questioning, and I would welcome the thoughts of all those who contributed to the earlier threads or anyone else who cares to speak up.

    I am trying to establish a realistic but cannon concept of vampires in the magical world.


    My new questions:

    1.)
    Vampire societies? What would they be like? The idea of a werewolf packs seem to be a given in fan fiction (with exceptions), but what about Vampires? Reflections? I would not object to a few suggestions for naming either... would it be a clan? brotherhood of blood? those of badly-in-need-of-an-orthadontist?

    2.)
    Muggle vs. Magical Vampires: There were some comments on this, but could anyone expound to a greater degree? I am interested in the repurcussions muggle Vampires would have on the wizarding world. Suppose Voldemort wanted to turn muggles and use them as disposable weapons against his enemies, promising them cures in return for their service? I think their would be a deep hatred between muggle vampires and the magical world, since the only thing they got out of it was a dreadful curse.

    ***Note: Point taken about not downplaying the horribleness of the Vampire curse. My vampires cannot live in sunlight, don't die unless killed properly, need blood to survive, and they cannot reproduce. A human is turned by being bitten by a Vampire. All Vampires crave human blood, but for the purposes of my story they do not depend on it. Animal blood can keep them alive. If a vampire tastes human blood once he or she craves it more then before... you get the picture. The more they drink the more insatiable they become. I am, however, shying away from the idea that they have no souls. Going with the disease idea, not the undead approach. We've got Inferi to fill that capacity. Vampirism is like Werewolfeism, only worse-- the whole 24/7/forever thing.

    3.) Ok, based on what I just said above, does it sound plausible that a Vampire could have a choice between killing or turning their victim?

    4.) If there was a community of Vampires in London where would they live? The underground/sewers seems just a shade cliche. Ideas?

    5.) I am taking it for granted that Vampires don't usually hold jobs, not even night jobs. What do they do with their time? Twiddle their thumbs?

    6.) In the last thread no one brought up the information JKR provides about other vampires, like Lorcan d'Eath, Heartthrob singer, part vampire, nineteen weeks at number 1 with hit song 'Necks to You.' JKR's Wizard of the Month for November 2006 (JKR). (see the Lexicon~Magical Beings for more) (What do you guys think part-vampire means?!?)

    The entries tend to show JKR's lighthearted, beloved style. How does this impact the way we portray Vampires in cannon fan fiction? My vampires are not amusing, but should levity play its part... I'm thinking about the lines of a Furry-Little-Problem, except here it would be a...?

    7.)
    What are a vampire's 'powers.' I am very unclear on this point. This is important for me because I want to know why Voldemort would be interested them. Again, there were some thoughts on this in the other thread, but I didn't get a clear idea what powers are particularly associated with Vampires... or are there none? Are they just deathless, cursed beings?

    8.) One last thing: How long are a vampire's fangs, and are they always visible?


    Good gracious, that was a lot of questions. My story hinges on the existence of a large Vampire community in London. Hence my interest in re-opening discussion on this reoccuring theme.

    Thank you in advance for your thoughts,

    ~~~Fauna

  2. #2
    jecleaver2
    Guest
    1.)Vampire societies? What would they be like? The idea of a werewolf packs seem to be a given in fan fiction (with exceptions), but what about Vampires? Reflections? I would not object to a few suggestions for naming either... would it be a clan? brotherhood of blood? those of badly-in-need-of-an-orthadontist?
    Well have you seen The Lost Boys. They portray that as a brotherhood of blood type of thing. It is very detailed in Vampire workings.

    2.) Muggle vs. Magical Vampires: There were some comments on this, but could anyone expound to a greater degree? I am interested in the repurcussions muggle Vampires would have on the wizarding world. Suppose Voldemort wanted to turn muggles and use them as disposable weapons against his enemies, promising them cures in return for their service? I think their would be a deep hatred between muggle vampires and the magical world, since the only thing they got out of it was a dreadful curse.
    You could have it like to where muggles think that Vampires don't exist like when Uncle Vernon told Harry that there's no such thing as magic.

    3.) Ok, based on what I just said above, does it sound plausible that a Vampire could have a choice between killing or turning their victim?
    They do actually they can get it to where they don't bite an vital organ like the oh say the jugular vein.

    4.) If there was a community of Vampires in London where would they live? The underground/sewers seems just a shade cliche. Ideas?
    Dark Alleyway?

    5.) I am taking it for granted that Vampires don't usually hold jobs, not even night jobs. What do they do with their time? Twiddle their thumbs?
    They search at night, and they sleep in the daytime.

    6.) In the last thread no one brought up the information JKR provides about other vampires, like Lorcan d'Eath, Heartthrob singer, part vampire, nineteen weeks at number 1 with hit song 'Necks to You.' JKR's Wizard of the Month for November 2006 (JKR). (see the Lexicon~Magical Beings for more) (What do you guys think part-vampire means?!?)
    It could mean that his mom or dad was a Vampire, and his mom or dad was not.

    7.) What are a vampire's 'powers.' I am very unclear on this point. This is important for me because I want to know why Voldemort would be interested them. Again, there were some thoughts on this in the other thread, but I didn't get a clear idea what powers are particularly associated with Vampires... or are there none? Are they just deathless, cursed beings?
    The only ones I know of are the whole sucking blood to stay alive thing, super strenth, and they can fly.

    8.) One last thing: How long are a vampire's fangs, and are they always visible?
    Their fangs are about twice as long as their regular teeth, and they are not always visible if they don't want you to be.

  3. #3
    Snape's Talon
    Guest
    To expand on jecleaver2's statement, The Lost Boys was a movie that came out in 1987.

    Also, a vampire powers could include enhanced vision (heat vision perhaps), sense of smell, and quicker than normal healing unless the wound is made by ... what, silver? Mist is usually associated with vampire (hmmm ... makes me think about Dementors).

    Vampirism as a disease is interesting. I read a book long ago that took this approach, entitled Children of the Night (link is to Amazon.com's page for this specific book). Basically, the child at the center of the story body extracts and processes genetic material from blood that the child lacks.

    As for location, as much as the underground sounds cliched, it would fit. London has a lot of unused, bricked off tunnels. Some lead to the Thames river. Otherwise, cemeteries?

    The half-vampire thing reminds me of another book series, Anita Black, Vampire Hunter. A male vampire can sire a child only within a few days of turning. Beyond that, it's a no go. Or if you favor Blade (movies/comic), the idea of a pregnant woman becoming infected with vampirism could work.

    In any case, hopefully AurorKeefy and cmwinters wander in soon and voice their informed opinions.


  4. #4
    Merlynne
    Guest
    Merlynne's two cents...or knuts...

    Muggle vs. Wizard victims
    I think the whole Muggle/Wizard difference would be a difference between life and death. A Muggle bitten could serve to feed the vampire, and then would die, and only wizards would actually "turn" into a vampire when bitten. Without wizard magic, I figure a victim would die.
    OR it could be that the vampire decides whether or not to "drain" their victim. A simple bite would cause conversion, whereas if the vampire to actually drink their victim's blood and drain them of it effectively, they'd probably die.

    Half-Bloods
    Perhaps a half-vampire is, like Bill, the victim of an attack that failed to kill or convert him to werewolfism. In my fiction, I've maintained that one needs to be bitten three times by a vampire to become one, so perhaps a half vampire is one who has been bitten once or twice, inheriting vampiric qualities but not the whole condition.
    OR
    Perhaps half-vampires are the children of vampires and wizards? I know that vampires aren't supposed to be able to reproduce, but being aren't supposed to be able to breed between species either (genetically speaking), yet it seems to happen between giants and wizards in the magical universe.

    Folk Lore
    In most folk lore, vampires are agreed upon as undead beings that live off of blood, either human or animal. Generally a type of demon or spirit. In Folk Lore, vampires could be created in other ways than being bitten, similar to ghosts in the sense that the dead person could "become" a vampire considering the circumstances of their death. Vampires were often people who'd been betrayed in death, had committed suicide, or were witches (as well as the being bitten part). Folklore regards vampires as having no soul (hence no reflection). Modern vampires (Which JK's vampires seem to be) stem from Eastern European mythology, particularly Slavic and Romanian myths. I urge you all to read Wikipedia's page on vampires, just because there are some points there that are quite amusing and interesting. There's certainly enough material there to spark one's creativity. I especially like the idea of different classes of vampires. Living, dead, undead. Check out the part about Strigoi/Moroi.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vampire#Folk_beliefs

    Vampires in London
    I'd suggest a dirty apartment building or some place in Knockturn Alley. I wouldn't glamorize the vampires' residence at all, just because that doesn't seem to be the thing JKR would do. Someplace mundane and likely out of the way. Why not the underground? it's cliche'd because it seems to fit. A bricked off tunnel sounds like a nice little lair for some vampires to have taken up in. I've also used a deserted tower in one of my fics. I figure they'd just move in someplace abandoned or derelict. Or maybe they're constantly on the move?

    Vampire traits

    I'd favour the idea of increased smell (hence the aversion to garlic), and poor eyesight in bright light (perhaps resulting in an aversion to daylight). Good night vision. Flight, and maybe shape shifting. A lot of folk lore says they can change shape (and not just into bats, either). Super-strength sounds fair. Perhaps a unique brand of wand-less magic, therefore less precise but still powerful. Inability to enter a church, or cross running water?

    Thanks for inviting me to discuss here, Fauna. Vampires are always a great discussion point for me.

  5. #5
    AurorKeefy
    Guest
    *Materialises*

    Right, before I even start, I want to raise two points.

    Firstly, everything I am about to say here is my opinion, and is based up other sources of information - largely the White Wolf game Vampire: The Masquerade (henceforth abbreviated to VtM) - and is no indication of what is or isn't canon.

    Secondly, I am less comfortable with the points I will put forward this time than I have done on previous occasions. In the past, these threads have largely concerned the Vampiric condition, while this one deals rather more with the Vampiric world. While WW's explanation of the condition translates beautifully into any setting, pushing the world into another piece of literature perhaps runs the risk of writing VtM fanfiction rather than Harry Potter fanfiction. So while I will try and stay away from things that flat out don't work, or seem implausible, I'm not going to go into too much detail even when WW's world is at it's wonderful best.
    So be aware of that, and let's go.

    1.)Vampire societies? What would they be like? The idea of a werewolf packs seem to be a given in fan fiction (with exceptions), but what about Vampires? Reflections? I would not object to a few suggestions for naming either... would it be a clan? brotherhood of blood? those of badly-in-need-of-an-orthadontist?
    In VtM, there are several different clans of vampires. Within each, the members are united by a handful of core abilities and traits, though there will usually be a significant range of personalities. Often the traits define the social workings. One clan, for example, takes great pleasure in the arts - and therefore leans towards gallery meetings and/or ballroom parties. Another clan is more animalistic and feral, nomadic and yet fiercely protective of their temporary territory, causing them to lead very isolated lives.
    We don't have to take this directly to the Potter world, but it seems reasonable to assume that vampires can be grouped into certain different categories, whether based on personality and/or condition, that affect the way they relate to other vampires. A naturally chatty person who manages to keep mentally strong after her embrace will probably find like minded vampires. Equally, the lone vampire in fits of despair at his new condition will probably avoid such social situations. As for clans, well that is up to you.

    2.) Muggle vs. Magical Vampires: There were some comments on this, but could anyone expound to a greater degree? I am interested in the repurcussions muggle Vampires would have on the wizarding world. Suppose Voldemort wanted to turn muggles and use them as disposable weapons against his enemies, promising them cures in return for their service? I think their would be a deep hatred between muggle vampires and the magical world, since the only thing they got out of it was a dreadful curse.
    Firstly, I'd like to suggest that a muggle turned vampire does not necessarily have to be introduced in the world of magic (This is a technicality, of course, since your fiction won't get far without actually introducing them). The Vampire world I would assume to be relatively large itself, and at the very least a tenth of the size of the wizarding world. Vampires and Wizards don't interact all that often. Both are aware of the other's existence, but they rarely share a table - so to speak. Most wizards probably live their entire lives without encountering a vampire (this is less applicable in reverse, but still).

    With this in mind, both Muggle and Magical vampires have been, to some degree, torn (or for wizards, distanced at least) from their world and placed into a foreign one. While the muggle is initially at a disadvantage, having never encountered either, eventually they are likely to find common ground. I don't picture them necessarily hating the magical world, not nearly as much as the vampiric one, but when sold a series of lies, reinforced time and time again, anything can happen. The Voldemort idea there seems sound enough.

    Ok, based on what I just said above, does it sound plausible that a Vampire could have a choice between killing or turning their victim?
    Yes. I mentioned last time about vampirism being passed on by a victim being drained and then being refilled with vampiric blood, but whatever system I'd say the answer is yes. What I would like to add, is that this shouldn't be an exact science either way. Just because a vampire attempts to turn but not kill a victim, does not mean she will succeed. I feel a beautiful tragedy blossoming.

    4.) If there was a community of Vampires in London where would they live? The underground/sewers seems just a shade cliche. Ideas?
    Depends on the vampire. If you embrace has twisted your appearance to the extent that it looks like you set yourself on fire and someone tried to put it out with an axe, then get yourself to the sewers. On the other hand, if you were a chartered accountant obsessed with making money, then all that changes is that you're going to be working nights now!

    I've got to go, I'll continue this later.

    It is now later, and I am going to continue.

    Of course that assumes that Vampires are largely territorial creatures, and while the more civilized may be happy to have guests sleep over, generally they live alone. Of course that is not to say that they don't meet up, because what is the point of vampire society if there aren't going to be interactions? In VtM, each city had at least one area of Elysium. This was an area where vampires were free to be as openly vampiric as they like, discuss interests and meet their peers. The nature of each Elysium would depend on the tastes of the ruling Vampires of the city. Nightclubs, Ballrooms, Art Galleries and Corporate Buildings were some of the most used examples, but it obviously depends on the tastes of your particular Vampire society. You know what your vampires will like or dislike, so it's down to you. Personally, I would have discounted sewers (too smelly) and Church's/Graveyards (too obvious - and Vampire have more reason than wizards for secrecy), but that is, of course, down to you.

    5.) I am taking it for granted that Vampires don't usually hold jobs, not even night jobs. What do they do with their time? Twiddle their thumbs?
    As I stated earlier, not necessarily. Aside from wanting to cling to every last ditch of humanity, few humans would want their unlife to remove the wealth they had in life. Obviously money generally isn't too much of an issue to a creature that can't eat or drink, can persuade bailiffs to go away, can persuade bailiffs to go away, and doesn't have to worry too much about cosmetics.
    Some vampires would do crappy night-jobs to keep their bedsit, though I think the vast majority would make their money either from petty crime (If you're taking someones blood, you might as well take their wallet while you're there), large scale crime/business (No-one messes with a girl with superhuman strength and an attitude problem), clever investments or a combination of the three. All those ballrooms, slaves and fine selections of blood cost money, you know?

    6.) In the last thread no one brought up the information JKR provides about other vampires, like Lorcan d'Eath, Heartthrob singer, part vampire, nineteen weeks at number 1 with hit song 'Necks to You.' JKR's Wizard of the Month for November 2006 (JKR). (see the Lexicon~Magical Beings for more) (What do you guys think part-vampire means?!?)
    Well, prior to you posting this, I wasn't aware of it, since I haven't really followed the website bits and pieces. Of the ones I've seen, they generally look to be humorous little stories rather than genuine pieces of information, and so I tend to ignore them. Of course, that's partly because things like this contradict my own ideas, so take this with a truckload of salt.
    In my opinion, you can't be part vampire, and Lorcan, like so many pop stars, made up that particular story to enhance his fame. He also changed his name to Lorcan d'Eath to achieve fame, as his real name is Gerald Hotchskipson.
    Or, as Snape's Talon says, go with Blade.

    7.) What are a vampire's 'powers.' I am very unclear on this point. This is important for me because I want to know why Voldemort would be interested them. Again, there were some thoughts on this in the other thread, but I didn't get a clear idea what powers are particularly associated with Vampires... or are there none? Are they just deathless, cursed beings?
    I am reticent to say too much here, because what I should really do is scan up the pages of the VtM clanbook (or indeed, send the file). There is a wealth of information in there, and it would be a marvellous starting and ending point.
    Yet if I did, I'm pushing VtM fanfiction again. >_< I don't know, I can't begin to find the effort to type up thirty odd pages of disciplines, and I doubt too many here would be bothered to read it either.

    To summarise, short bursts of extreme speed or strength, constantly improved senses, the ability to persuade and dominate people who don't have a strong sense of will, and about a thousand different (but limited for most vampires) branches of magic. Don't ask me to type the latter up.

    8.) One last thing: How long are a vampire's fangs, and are they always visible?
    In my vampire world, fangs are normally retracted to resemble human teeth, until the vampire in question feeds, or else she loses herself to her thirst and frenzies. In which case I'd say they about double in size (which is still pretty big). Large enough to be able to close the mouth, but not small enough to go unnoticed. Of course some of the sewer dwelling monstrosities might have been utterly deformed and left with great gaping maws that look more like a bowl of knives rather than a mouth, and they're stuck with them full time. Of course, such Vampires are in the minority.

    I tell you though, if I had the time to answer those questions properly...

  6. #6
    Snape's Talon
    Guest
    I had a thought about the vampiric condition insofar as turning and daylight is concerned. In the game Oblivion (yes, I actually play video games) there are vampires and your character can become one. After being exposed to the disease, all you have to do is not cure yourself and wait three days. The next time you rest, you'll awake as a vampire.

    Now, so long as you feed yourself regularly, you can walk in daylight. Forget to chug some good ol' Type O long enough (or any other human type blood) and walking around in daylight becomes deadly. You're limited to nighttime activities. Conversely, your vampiric abilities increase the longer you go without blood.

    That reminds me ... how about the ability to charm a person or befuddle them? And for healing, you must feed?

  7. #7
    FaunaCaritas
    Guest

    Lock Thread, Please.

    Thank you to all who wrote in. I can't tell you how much you all helped. My muse began doing a the conga around my poor little brain. Fortunately 'significant progress' was the result (rather then the raging headache you all might expect.)

    Please lock this thread. My vampires now realistically stalk the pages of the story... thanks to all your help.

    ~Fauna

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