Regulus Black

[mudbloodproud]

originally posted by dancing_in_moon_pools
Who said his opinions are set when he reaches Hogwarts?
maybe he's like not sure, and is angry when hes sorted into Gryffindor, but then comes to love it and his friends.
Regulus probably saw how Sirius was punished and then firmly made his mind up to not be outcast like Sirius. And Regulus could have been the type when he was younger to believe anything he was told.

There is a passage in DH chapter 33 'the Prince's Tale' that shows James, Sirius, Snape and Lily on the train.

"Who wants to be in Slytherin? I think I'd leave, wouldn't you?" James asked the boy lounging on the seats opposite him, and with a jolt, Harry realized that it was Sirius. Sirius didn't smile.
"My whole family has been in Slytherin," he said.
"Blimey," said James, "and I thought you seemed all right."
Sirius grinned.
"Maybe I'll break the tradition. Where are you heading, if you've got the choice?"...

The fact that Sirius didn't smile until he said about breaking tradition sounds to me as if he didn't want to be in Slytherin.

Regulus would have seen the commotion caused by Sirius not being in Slytherin. Sirius decorated his room in Gryffindor colors and banners, Regulus decorated his in Slytherin.
I think Regulus enjoyed the fact he was sorted the same as his family.

I also think he joined the Death Eaters of his own free will and choice. Was this choice based on his upbringing. Yes, I think it was. I am sure he was preached to about pureblood status his entire life. And the fact Sirius was not sorted into Slytherin probably set off their mother to no end. In the books, we see how nasty her portrait is, is there any reason to believe she was not like that in real life?

As fas as Sirius and Regulus being close. I think they were until after Sirius started school, there is only a year or so between them in ages. I am sure when he came home the first time after he was sorted, it was not a pleasant time. I think once his mother found out he was in Gryffindor, she started preaching to Regulus how horrible Sirius must be. How he wasn't pureblood enough to get into Slytherin.

Sirius probably got a lot of attention being the oldest and the heir apparent. So, once their parents turned on him and focused on Regulus, I think Regulus enjoyed getting the attention of his parents and decided to mimic their beliefs.

The parental disapproval of Sirius, I think played an important factor in the way Regulus turned out.

Though at the end, he probably realised Sirius was right and his parents were wrong. I think this is what caused him to turn against Voldemort. But his love for his parents kept him from openly renouncing Voldemort. He kept quiet to keep them safe.

Just my 2 Knuts worth to add to this interesting discussion.

[TCole]

*Stumbles in* Hello! =D This thread has like.. died, and since I love Regulus, and Sirius, and practically just the entire Black family, I decided to revive it.

The fact that Sirius didn't smile until he said about breaking tradition sounds to me as if he didn't want to be in Slytherin.

Regulus would have seen the commotion caused by Sirius not being in Slytherin. Sirius decorated his room in Gryffindor colors and banners, Regulus decorated his in Slytherin.
I think Regulus enjoyed the fact he was sorted the same as his family.

I agree with you here. Even though this thread is for Regulus, I'm going to comment on Sirius right quick. Now, I believe that Sirius, when he was younger, may have believed in what his parents told him and Regulus. I think that yes, he believed in the purity of blood just as much as his parents did, but as he got older, I think that he came to his senses. He realised how full of crap his parents were, and he completely went against everything they believed in, obviously. I agree that Regulus enjoyed the fact that he was sorted the same as his family, but I also think that he may have been a tiny bit upset about that. I always thought that Regulus looked up to Sirius. Yes, he believed in what his parents said more than what Sirius said or did, but I still think that Regulus looked up to him, and so when he got sorted in a different house, he may have been at least a tiny bit upset that he wasn't put in the same house as his own brother.

I also think he joined the Death Eaters of his own free will and choice. Was this choice based on his upbringing. Yes, I think it was. I am sure he was preached to about pureblood status his entire life. And the fact Sirius was not sorted into Slytherin probably set off their mother to no end. In the books, we see how nasty her portrait is, is there any reason to believe she was not like that in real life?

This is where I disagree. I don't think that Regulus wanted to join the Death Eaters at all. I wrote about this in a chapter of my WIP, World of the Dead. I think that Regulus only joined the Death Eaters to prove to his father that he was worthy of being the "perfect son". Sirius was always the perfect son when they were little until he went to Hogwarts and basically changed his opinion on everything he was taught while growing up. I think that Regulus joined the DEs because it was his way of proving to Orion that he believed in the same things as Orion did. It was his way of trying to show his father how different he was from Sirius; that he could actually show how he felt about the purity of blood by joining the DEs.

Ha. Of course it set off their mother to no end. Lol. It's Walburga Black. As you've said, we see how nasty her portrait is, and the people in the portraits are basically the same people they were in real life, or at least, that what I think.

As fas as Sirius and Regulus being close. I think they were until after Sirius started school, there is only a year or so between them in ages. I am sure when he came home the first time after he was sorted, it was not a pleasant time. I think once his mother found out he was in Gryffindor, she started preaching to Regulus how horrible Sirius must be. How he wasn't pureblood enough to get into Slytherin.

Sirius probably got a lot of attention being the oldest and the heir apparent. So, once their parents turned on him and focused on Regulus, I think Regulus enjoyed getting the attention of his parents and decided to mimic their beliefs.

I agree. I think they were close until Sirius started at Hogwarts, too, but I also think that a year or two before that, they started to grow apart. I think that Sirius started to think more differently then the rest of the Blacks even before he started at Hogwarts, but I just don't think he showed as much until after he started as school. I don't think that she would have said he wasn't pureblood enough to be in Slytherin, but I do agree that she probably preached to Regulus about it. I think that she probably put a lot more pressure on Regulus to be sorted into Slytherin because of Sirius being put in Gryffindor. I think that I already said what I think caused Regulus to be like his parents. Lol. So, I'm not just going to repeat myself.

Though at the end, he probably realised Sirius was right and his parents were wrong. I think this is what caused him to turn against Voldemort. But his love for his parents kept him from openly renouncing Voldemort. He kept quiet to keep them safe.

That's exactly what I think. You practically summed that all up for me. I have nothing to add.

That is all for now. I may come back to comment on the rest of what people said... When I'm not about to fall asleep. Almost 3AM!

[quibblequill]

Let's remember that Regulus only lived to the age of eighteen. Plus, he's not going to wake one morning and suddenly announce that 'Sirius was right, my parents are wrong, and now I have to go against Voldemort.' No, that's not what he said at all!

I think that Regulus grew up close to Sirius. Obviously SOMETHING put it into perspective for Sirius that his parents were 'wrong'-a young boy that was taught all his life that Muggles and Mudbloods are scum is not going to give up his family's respect and ideals simply for the sake of it. No, of course he's not. So the question is, WHY did Sirius start to feel that way? That's a huge part of it. In fact, who's to say that Sirius didn't tell the hat not to make him Slytherin???????

Whatever the reason, I think Regulus shared his views *to an extent*, but not enough to turn heads. Personally I do not think that Regulus was bold enough to turn against his entire family. In fact, I'm sure he saw it that way: that instead of making a life for himself, with its own meaning and ending, he would rather take the easy way out and stick to his family. He had his own reasons.

My point is, when Regulus did decide to turn against Voldy, he'd seen enough carnage for a teenager to last his lifetime (which he hadn't always known would be only eighteen years ). He'd had enough of being in the service of Voldemort. [Which I assure you isn't an unreasonable mind set!] Plus on top of whatever he'd been through, his house elf had nearly been killed, by Voldemort. [We can glean from the books that Regulus had pratically adored Kreacher.] So, going against Voldemort had been a very Slytherin thing to do: he was willing to sacrifice in order to protect his own! It wasn't some sort of sudden Gryffindor urge, he was just being the same Regulus he'd always been, albiet a disenchanted one. \=

Then again, Reggie *grins* DID, I believe, join the Death Eaters of his own will. In the end he was just trying to 'right his wrongs.' He was trying to make everything better. And although nothing could ever fix whatever damage he'd done during the time that he had been a Death Eater (and I assure you, he understood that), certain acts work a deep magic, something that can't be erased! So in a sense, while it wasn't worth his life, he died trying to bring down Voldemort, like so many others.

*Oh* and I just thought about this:

In a sense, Regulus showed a very common Gryffindor trait!!!!!! He-didn't-think-it-through!!!! He did a very rash thing, even if he was just trying to help. Or maybe he just knew he wasn't strong enough to do it.

But I know he hadn't thought of it:

He could have been a spy, like Snape. But I don't know, that's a horrible exsistance. Still, I think Regulus would have tried it, if he'd even thought about it.......... *tears*

[cmwinters]

He could have been a spy, like Snape. But I don't know, that's a horrible exsistance. Still, I think Regulus would have tried it, if he'd even thought about it.......... *tears*

Would he? Snape was relatively unknown; his father was a Muggle and his mother — what DID happen to Eileen and Tobias anyway? By the time Snape is the *relatively young* age of 36, it appears that both of his parents are dead. He's living in Spinner's End, which is clearly where he lived with his Muggle father and his (presumably pureblood) mother. And Eileen was a student

I think it's reasonably safe to assume that Eileen wasn't a Death Eater. I think it's also safe to assume that she got married to Tobias nearly right out of school, and was thus relatively young herself at the time of the birth of her son.

Regulus, on the other hand — EVERYBODY knew him. His parents were both purebloods. his cousin and her husband Death Eaters, her other cousin's husband a Death Eater. Regulus couldn't go to the Order, likely for fear that A) Sirius would reject him and B) wouldn't be able to keep his fat mouth shut. I think it was INFINITELY easier for Snape to become a spy than it would have been for Regulus.

Besides, Regulus apparently thought he'd found the SOLE Horcrux, and that he was genuinely bringing down the Dark Lord (not all that unreasonable a thought, come to that). If Regulus wasn't good at Occlumency, and he KNEW he couldn't hide, then he may have well decided better a quiet but martyr's death than one by Cruciatus, Sectumsempra and gods only know what other horrors the Death Eaters could dream up while in a snit.

Further, it's entirely possible that Regulus was unaware that he'd be effectively eaten by the Inferi. He may have thought he'd just die for failing to respond to a Summons or what have you, and may well have thought he had nowhere else to go.

[TCole]

Would he? Snape was relatively unknown; his father was a Muggle and his mother — what DID happen to Eileen and Tobias anyway? By the time Snape is the *relatively young* age of 36, it appears that both of his parents are dead. He's living in Spinner's End, which is clearly where he lived with his Muggle father and his (presumably pureblood) mother. And Eileen was a student

I think it's reasonably safe to assume that Eileen wasn't a Death Eater. I think it's also safe to assume that she got married to Tobias nearly right out of school, and was thus relatively young herself at the time of the birth of her son.

I've realised that everything turns towards Snape. *Sigh* Ah well..

Regulus, on the other hand — EVERYBODY knew him. His parents were both purebloods. his cousin and her husband Death Eaters, her other cousin's husband a Death Eater. Regulus couldn't go to the Order, likely for fear that A) Sirius would reject him and B) wouldn't be able to keep his fat mouth shut. I think it was INFINITELY easier for Snape to become a spy than it would have been for Regulus.

Love, to be honest, I don't think that that would matter. Just because his family were Purebloods and he had a lot of people in his family that were Death Eaters, doesn't mean that he couldn't have been a spy. Same thing for the fact that everybody knew him. That doesn't really matter. And another thing, I don't think that Sirius would have rejected him if he went to join the Order, and I don't think Regulus would think that Sirius would reject him. If Regulus went to join the Order, that would show that Regulus had a change of heart and that he didn't believe in the ways of the family, just as Sirius didn't. Sure, he could have just acted like he didn't, but to be honest, I think towards the end, Regulus obviously realised that his family's ways were wrong, and that Sirius was in the right for leaving when he had gotten the chance.

Besides, Regulus apparently thought he'd found the SOLE Horcrux, and that he was genuinely bringing down the Dark Lord (not all that unreasonable a thought, come to that). If Regulus wasn't good at Occlumency, and he KNEW he couldn't hide, then he may have well decided better a quiet but martyr's death than one by Cruciatus, Sectumsempra and gods only know what other horrors the Death Eaters could dream up while in a snit.

Sure, Regulus may have thought the he was going to defeat Voldemort by destorying the locket, but I personally think that he went into that knowing that he wasn't going to come out alive. Obviously he knew what a Horcrux was, so he must have known that it could kill him if he tried to destroy it. So, I don't think he really thought about the things that the Death Eaters would do to him. I think he really did know and that he really did expect to just die while destorying the locket. *Shrugs*

Further, it's entirely possible that Regulus was unaware that he'd be effectively eaten by the Inferi. He may have thought he'd just die for failing to respond to a Summons or what have you, and may well have thought he had nowhere else to go.

I think I've already said above what I would say here. I basically feel the same way about this as I said about the thing above this. I don't really think he thought about stuff like that. I really do think he went into it knowing that he was going to die, so the fact that there were Inferi in the water around the horcrux didn't really bother him so much. *Shrugs again*

[fg_weasley]

Love, to be honest, I don't think that that would matter. Just because his family were Purebloods and he had a lot of people in his family that were Death Eaters, doesn't mean that he couldn't have been a spy. Same thing for the fact that everybody knew him. That doesn't really matter. And another thing, I don't think that Sirius would have rejected him if he went to join the Order, and I don't think Regulus would think that Sirius would reject him. If Regulus went to join the Order, that would show that Regulus had a change of heart and that he didn't believe in the ways of the family, just as Sirius didn't. Sure, he could have just acted like he didn't, but to be honest, I think towards the end, Regulus obviously realised that his family's ways were wrong, and that Sirius was in the right for leaving when he had gotten the chance.

I actually have to disagree with this and agree with cmwinters. Firstly, I highly doubt that Regulus would ever go to the Order in the first place, even when he no longer believed in his Death Eater ways. Regulus may have been weaker than Sirius, but the boy was a bloody Death Eater at sixteen. Not exactly for the faith of heart. I think that even though he'd realized his mistake and tried to fix it, he wouldn't go to the Order and try to make amends with his brother. Secondly, Sirius would exactly be like, "Oh, look, you've changed your mind! Hug me brother!" Well, obviously he wouldn't say it like that anyway, but you get my point. Even if it appeared that Reg had 'seen the light' I don't think Sirius would be easily persuaded. I do think that Regulus would have thought Sirius would reject because I think he knew his brother well. He would have known what Sirius thought of him and he would know that Sirius isn't the easily forgiving type for this sort of thing. It would probably take a lot more time to get Sirius to believe his brother had really changed, time they didn't have. Not only that, but I'm not entirely sure Regulus would have tried to convince him. If he really wanted to let Sirius know he had changed, he would have.

I do agree with that last bit, though, that Regulus realized who was wrong and who was right, but I also think his Black pride would have stopped him from going to Sirius and telling him that. He wanted to fix his wrongs with the Horcrux and let that be that.

Oh, and I also agree that he knew he would die one way or another when he went to steal the Horcurx. I think that's how he thought he would fix his wrongs--rid the world of Voldy, but have to pay the ultimate price himself. I think he sacrifced himself because he thought that was what needed to be done.

[TCole]

I actually have to disagree with this and agree with cmwinters. Firstly, I highly doubt that Regulus would ever go to the Order in the first place, even when he no longer believed in his Death Eater ways. Regulus may have been weaker than Sirius, but the boy was a bloody Death Eater at sixteen. Not exactly for the faith of heart. I think that even though he'd realized his mistake and tried to fix it, he wouldn't go to the Order and try to make amends with his brother. Secondly, Sirius would exactly be like, "Oh, look, you've changed your mind! Hug me brother!" Well, obviously he wouldn't say it like that anyway, but you get my point. Even if it appeared that Reg had 'seen the light' I don't think Sirius would be easily persuaded. I do think that Regulus would have thought Sirius would reject because I think he knew his brother well. He would have known what Sirius thought of him and he would know that Sirius isn't the easily forgiving type for this sort of thing. It would probably take a lot more time to get Sirius to believe his brother had really changed, time they didn't have. Not only that, but I'm not entirely sure Regulus would have tried to convince him. If he really wanted to let Sirius know he had changed, he would have.

*sigh* I didn't actually say that he would definitely go to the Order and ask for Sirius to forgive him. All I said was that it is possible that he could have wanted to do that. And I never once said that Sirius would definitely forgive him. >.> I know Sirius's character extremely well, and he's pretty stubborn. Even if it was right in front of his face that Regulus had changed, I don't think he would have completely forgiven him for everything that he did. Most, yes. All, no.

I do agree with that last bit, though, that Regulus realized who was wrong and who was right, but I also think his Black pride would have stopped him from going to Sirius and telling him that. He wanted to fix his wrongs with the Horcrux and let that be that.

Oh, and I also agree that he knew he would die one way or another when he went to steal the Horcurx. I think that's how he thought he would fix his wrongs--rid the world of Voldy, but have to pay the ultimate price himself. I think he sacrifced himself because he thought that was what needed to be done.

Exactly. I don't think that he would have went and told Sirius that, either. Like you said, I, too, think that he thought that by getting rid of the Horcrux, and Voldemort, would fix all the wrong things he did. Even if he did sacrafice himself. I think that he really did go into it knowing that he would die, but that he was dying for the right cause. Seeing as how he obviously realized that Voldemort and such were in the wrong.


Edit: AH! I started writing in your font! LOL.

[MasterBergin]

Here's the thing about little brothers..........they ALWAYS look up to their older brothers. No matter how much they may appear to despise each other, older brothers set the standard and the little ones try to match it. Trust me, I'm the oldest of 6, with 3 younger brothers. The second oldest IS my rival, so to speak. We compete in everything and more often than not, we spend more time fighting than anything. We spent most of a year not talking to each other despite living in the same house. But we'd always look out for each other no matter what.

On that line, I think Sirius and Regulus's relationship was similar to that. Remember what was said about Sirius, he was the best at everything he did. Yes he was a Black and he did get sorted into Gryffindor which would've strained things with his parents but with Regulus? I don't think so. When Sirius talked about Regulus, he didn't have the nicest things to say, but it sounds alot like the way me and my brother talk about each other. It doesn't mean we hate each other. It just means that we don't agree with each others ideas and decisions. Regulus was a Slytherin, but was it really what he wanted? Remember that the Sorting Hat takes choice into account. Reg may have superficially wanted Slytherin to prove his own worth to his parents. I think that Reg wanted to step out of Sirius's shadow in some way and following the Black way was the best way to do that. Especially once Sirius ran away. Sirius had been at Hogwarts for, what, 2 years, by the time Regulus got there? That was 2 years that Reg could've seen his parents contempt for Sirius's friends and beliefs and what better way to get in their good graces than by mirroring what they believed? Even going so far as to joining the Death Eaters, which may have been more of an attempt to continue to appease his parents, rather than being something he really wanted to do. And my biggest question, what made Reg defect? Aside from the Kreacher incident. Was it being on the frontline of some gruesome things? Maybe even him and Sirius happened to find themselves in the middle of a fight?

In the end, with Regulus, it's not how you start but how you finish. I think that if Sirius ever had the chance to welcome him with open arms, he would've. Especially if he had learned that Reg knew the secret of the Horcruxes and had tried to bring Voldemort down. Ultimately, Regulus turned out to be just as much a hero as Sirius and finally stepped out of his brothers shadow.

[fg_weasley]

All I said was that it is possible that he could have wanted to do that.

Yes, I agree that's its possible he might have wanted to. Even probable, maybe. But like I said, he wouldn't have done it. His pride would have been too strong. He and Sirius are alike in that respect, I believe.

And I never once said that Sirius would definitely forgive him. >.>

I didn't mean to say that's what you said. Here is the quote I was referring to when I said that Sirius wouldn't welcome Reg with open arms and forgive him:

And another thing, I don't think that Sirius would have rejected him if he went to join the Order, and I don't think Regulus would think that Sirius would reject him.

Because what I was trying to say was the Sirius WOULD have rejected him and Regulus probably would have known it. You even said yourself that Sirius is a stubborn man, which he most definitely is. That is why I don't think he would have rejected Regulus if, for some odd reason, he decided to pay the order a visit. I think initially, at least, Sirius would have rejected him. The problem I have with Sirius forgiving Regulus is that I don't think he would have wanted to admit he was wrong, even a little. Was it him that said you never stop being a Death Eater or something like that? I want to say it was, but I could be wrong.

It doesn't mean we hate each other. It just means that we don't agree with each others ideas and decisions.

I do agree with this, with regard to Sirius and Regulus. I'm not entirely sure either of them really hated the other. I think Regulus liked Sirius more than Sirius liked Regulus, but I don't think there was any loathing, not like Sirius with Snape.

Reg may have superficially wanted Slytherin to prove his own worth to his parents. I think that Reg wanted to step out of Sirius's shadow in some way and following the Black way was the best way to do that. Especially once Sirius ran away. Sirius had been at Hogwarts for, what, 2 years, by the time Regulus got there? That was 2 years that Reg could've seen his parents contempt for Sirius's friends and beliefs and what better way to get in their good graces than by mirroring what they believed? Even going so far as to joining the Death Eaters, which may have been more of an attempt to continue to appease his parents, rather than being something he really wanted to do.

I think this is exactly how Regulus was. Regulus wasn't as strong as Sirius, and I think he really did crave his parents approval. As far as being a Slytherin, I think that initially he wanted approval, but I think that after seven years in the house he would have liked it. I do think that just because he may have wanted to be a Slytherin to appease his parents doesn't mean he wasn't one at heart. I don't think that his becoming a Death Eater was solely to please, but I do think it was most definitely part of it.

[leahsm2]

Regulus Black was the Slytherin House Seeker, though, no small accomplishment in a house renown for picking their team for thug behavior! I think the fact that Regulus was so young when he became a Death Eater is compelling because it seems so uncommon. I have a gut feeling that Regulus is all show and when he realises this he goes for the heroic finish, but the fact that he becomes a faceless, souless inferius in that pool is . . .