Sirius Black

[Amber0_o]

Sirius was trying to teach a spying, sneak a lesson. I am convinced he is the one who told James what he'd done, which then sent James after him to save his life.

Do you think that sneaking around and trying to get students in trouble for activities that they shouldn't have been doing deserves death or lycanthropy?

I don't think he actually meant to kill Severus, because he cared too much for his friend to allow him to live with the guilt of biting another human

I'm not so sure about that. In fact, Sirius not caring about Remus enough would explain quite a lot that happens later on. What else would make Sirius and James suspicious of Remus unless something came between them? And what could have been bigger than the werewolf prank? Remus suspected Sirius to be the traitor-- if he, being true to himself, didn't protest too much about the prank aloud, because he was afraid they would leave him, but harbored doubt, then it would explain why he thought Sirius betrayed them.

[Snape's Talon]

I don't think he actually meant to kill Severus, because he cared too much for his friend to allow him to live with the guilt of biting another human.

I'll have to disagree with you here, Wendy. A werewolf, and one without Wolfsbane potion, is no joking matter. Sirius Black would have know that very well from his excursions with Remus and the fact of the matter was he was quite unrepentant regarding his actions.

Severus Snape to him was a greasy-haired git from Slytherin. Bad enough that he was from the House that Sirius entire family belonged to, but the boy had the audacity to like Lily Evans, the girl Sirius' best mate adored.

[cmwinters]

And again, please let's remember that twenty years after the fact, when Harry confronts Sirius about James' behaviour, and Lupin happens to be there, Lupin says "he could have been killed, or worse", and Sirius scoffs and said "he would have deserved it".

No evidence that remorse ever lived in his VICINITY. He's certainly not feeling any about the situation, while he's being confronted about his behaviour, no less.

The Marauders made it a habit not only to torment other students, but they flaunted the rules with absolute impunity, and everyone just thinks they're made of awesome (a point which has been proven so many times in this thread, it's quite frankly nauseating). There is a HUGE disparity in what is deemed acceptable behaviour for Gryffindors and the rest of the world, and an even more disparate notion of what Slytherins can do versus the rest of the world (another point which has been proven so many times in this thread that it's nauseating).

To spell it out in so many words: Gryffindors are perfect little angels and never do anything wrong, and if anyone thinks a Gryffindor did something wrong, there's something wrong with that person's perception, and Slytherins are nothing but evil and should all be killed in the most painful and humiliating way possible, because they never have any justification for anything, not even being born or breathing. And if a Gryffindor does something to a Slytherin, that Slytherin deserves whatever it is, because remember, Gryffindors can do no wrong.

[red haired mom]

Oh my word!

Nothing I said was meant to cause this effect. I do not think Gryffindors are the perfect little angels and Slytherins are the 'devil incarnate' (condensed from all posts into this phrase).

What I meant was...

Sirius Black is a normal boy/man who has a deep and visceral 'hatred' for one person. Severus Snape. From day one on the train when they crossed paths and Sirius realized he had found a target in a smaller/weaker boy who wanted to go to the one House he didn't. It was the same House his entire family had been in and while he might (at that point) still not know exactly what it was that was wrong with their attitudes, he did know something wasn't quite right.

Throughout the seven years he was at school, he and his friends played pranks, hexed and jinxed other students, (just like a good many of the other students) (of all Houses), and were perceived as the 'height of cool'.

When he sent Severus into the tunnel, he did so with the obvious intention of having Severus die, or at the very least be bitten and be lycanthropic for the rest of his life. I do concede that. BUT, there is no way James could have found out unless Sirius told him. I do believe Sirius had a change of heart, not for Severus' sake, no, but for Remus' sake.

He would have realized that Remus could not have lived with himself if he'd bitten and maimed/killed another student.

Sirius never apologized for that, possibly because he wasn't sorry, but more likely because he was a ego ridden male that refused to see the wrong in it since he's the one who sent the rescue inadvertantly. That was enough of an admittance as he was willing to make.

Sirius went to Azkaban when he was twenty one years old, he spent twelve years at the mercy of the Dementors, so in the Shrieking Shack, while intent on killing the one who caused James and Lily to be killed, he was definitely not going to admit any wrongdoing, or get into any deep psychological discussions on why he disliked Snape so much.

In later books, he shows his capacity for love is huge. He tries his best to protect Harry and to give him information, when others would see him kept in the dark.

But when Harry sees things in SWM that disturb him and shake his faith in his father and godfather, Sirius quickly admits his wrongs. Granted, he doesn't admit to being wrong for trying to kill Severus, but he does admit to his faults.

Not all heroes are black and white. Not all villans are black and white. Every single character has a level of depth, you just have to look for it. Sirius Black has played the role of villan and the role of hero.

I just don't think he should be tarred and feathered for his deeds and thoughts as regards to not just Snape, but the rest of the Wizarding world.

As far as Remus thinking he was the spy and Sirius thinking it of Remus...

During a war, and fighting on the side of Albus Dumbledore meant keeping secrets, even from your best friends. That secrecy fed what had to be a majorly stressful time and caused doubt to grow when leaks occurred concerning the Potters and the Order happenings.

They all suspected each other to a degree, it's human nature to know you have a friend that is betraying you to an evil monster, and be suspicious of them all.

I will say it again, I do not think Sirius has a halo, and I don't think Severus has horns and a pitchfork, I just think they really hated each other.

I hope this made my earlier statements more clear.
~Wendy

Beth: Good, timely clarification before a war started 5 points

[leahsm2]

To spell it out in so many words: Gryffindors are perfect little angels and never do anything wrong, and if anyone thinks a Gryffindor did something wrong, there's something wrong with that person's perception, and Slytherins are nothing but evil and should all be killed in the most painful and humiliating way possible, because they never have any justification for anything, not even being born or breathing. And if a Gryffindor does something to a Slytherin, that Slytherin deserves whatever it is, because remember, Gryffindors can do no wrong.

When he sent Severus into the tunnel, he did so with the obvious intention of having Severus die, or at the very least be bitten and be lycanthropic for the rest of his life. I do concede that. BUT, there is no way James could have found out unless Sirius told him. I do believe Sirius had a change of heart, not for Severus' sake, no, but for Remus' sake.
He would have realized that Remus could not have lived with himself if he'd bitten and maimed/killed another student.

Gee, how did this thread end up dormant. It was just getting good!

OK Sirius Black. Gryffindor Love God, or hapless should've-been-a Slytherin, lead astray by Gryffindor peer pressure, much like our poor, hapless Harry?

[cmwinters]

Gee, how did this thread end up dormant. It was just getting good!

OK Sirius Black. Gryffindor Love God, or hapless should've-been-a Slytherin, lead astray by Gryffindor peer pressure, much like our poor, hapless Harry?

Whatever else I think of Sirius Black, I think he was his own person. I do not think he was merely "led astray" by "Gryffindor peer pressure". I think he somewhat deliberately (1) chose Gryffindor over Slytherin, and it wasn't just peer pressure.

However, I don't think he's the "lvoe god" so many fanfictions make him out to be. Yeah, he was good looking, rich, popular, pureblood, smart and whatever-else-Golden-Boy/Gary-Stu-ish. However, he utterly ignored the girls trying to get his attention when he was sixteen, and by sixteen, most boys have hit puberty. And usually, even the gay ones are going after girls.

Now, either he was unbelievably chic and sophisticated (and completely mentally-ill narcissistic, which the behaviour with Harry doesn't support), or he already had someone, or he was gay.

I'd *really* rather he "already had someone else" even if she were the smartest, prettiest & most well-connected of the girls than the other two choices, because the first lends entirely too much credence to the "Gryffindors can do no wrong" mentality, and the last would mean *yet another* somewhat "bad example" (have I mentioned I *detest* Sirius Black?) is the so-called "token gay character".

(I'd rather Dean & Seamus gay than Sirius, because we know them and see them in a "normal" light.)

(1) - have I mentioned how absurdly unfair it is to judge you for the rest of your life based upon a "chioce" you make when you are at the ripe old age of eleven and can't even fully understand the lifetime consequences of this "choice"???

[Kate Skeffington]

However, I don't think he's the "lvoe god" so many fanfictions make him out to be. Yeah, he was good looking, rich, popular, pureblood, smart and whatever-else-Golden-Boy/Gary-Stu-ish. However, he utterly ignored the girls trying to get his attention when he was sixteen, and by sixteen, most boys have hit puberty

I agree, I don't think he was a "love god", or that he slept around with girls every other night. But I don't think we can assure he was simply not interested in grils if we judge him by only one scene in the book. There's nothing in Snape's Worst Memory that makes me feel like he couldn't have been interested in girls. That day Sirius might've been tired, or whatnot...I prefer to say that in that scene Sirius wasn't interested in girls. Girls are probably not his number one priority. I think definitely he prefers to cure boredom by hanging out with his friends, looking for trouble than going after some girl.

What do you think would've happened if Sirius hadn't died?Do you think he would've loved (romantically) someone? I mean, he's a person (well, a character technically) and he HAS to have some sort of romantic feelings...What do you guys think?

[TCole]

I agree, I don't think he was a "love god", or that he slept around with girls every other night. But I don't think we can assure he was simply not interested in grils if we judge him by only one scene in the book. There's nothing in Snape's Worst Memory that makes me feel like he couldn't have been interested in girls. That day Sirius might've been tired, or whatnot...I prefer to say that in that scene Sirius wasn't interested in girls. Girls are probably not his number one priority. I think definitely he prefers to cure boredom by hanging out with his friends, looking for trouble than going after some girl.

Hun, I agree with you completely. Well, probably almost completely.

Sure, in the books we only saw a little bit of what Sirius was like back in when he was a kid in Hogwarts, but I think that some of the things people have with him in FF could possibly be true. I, too, don't believe that he was only after girls and that all he thought about was getting a girl while he was at school. He was a Marauder! They practically lived for doing pranks. lol. I think that he may have been interested in girls a lot, but I don't think it completely controlled his mind, so to speak. I think that he was more interested in, like you said, looking for trouble. He was a rebel, for lack of a better word. He wanted to go against the rules as much as he could. That could probably be the reason why people see him as thinking about girls all the time. He was the "bad boy" type, and a lot of girls go for bad boy types. I don't think Sirius was an exception to that rule. I think that it was mostly the girls that went after him, not the other way around. lol.

What do you think would've happened if Sirius hadn't died?Do you think he would've loved (romantically) someone? I mean, he's a person (well, a character technically) and he HAS to have some sort of romantic feelings...What do you guys think?

Ah, yeah. I believe that if Sirius would have survived that he may have fallen in love with someone, but, and that's a huge but, he probably would have dedicated almost all of his time to Harry. Being Harry's Godfather, and one of James's best friends, I think that Sirius would have tried to be more of a friend to Harry than he had had the time to be. I don't think he would have tried to be like a father type, I just think that he would have definitely tried to help Harry succeed in life. Also, I think that he may have ended up being a bit... selfish when it came to Harry. Although he would possibly have wanted him to do whatever he could to have a good life, I think that he would also try and get Harry to stay with him. After all those years in Azkaban and being stuck at Number Twelve, Grimmauld Place, obviously he's lonely. He's going to want someone to be there with him. I also think that it would have probably been Harry, Ron, and Hermione that found a girl that Sirius could possibly fall in love with. *Shrugs* That's really what I think would have happened. Of course he has to have some sort of romantic feelings! He was a well rounded character, and he had a lot of different things going on with his character, but of course there has to be a part of him that would want someone there that he loves and that loves him back (besides Harry!). It would make him... complete. LOL. As corny as that sounds, I believe that. >.>

Wow. I think I'm done. I'm glad this is revived. Although, I should probably read through the other posts.

[IsamuAki193]

Sirius was a marauder and one of the most popular boys in school so of course the girls would have loved him. I think he is the type of person who showed interest in girls when he got bored. I'm sure he cared about his friends and pranking much more but if he had nothing to do on a Saturday I'm sure he probably went to find a girl to hang out with. He probably had girlfriends sometimes but I doubt he wouldve really got to know most of them. He most likely just went out with her because she asked or because he didnt want to be single. If James and Remus had girlfriends Sirius wouldnt want to be the only one single.

At the same time Sirius does seem to consider other people's feelings. I think if he did have a girlfriend he wouldve at least respected her and was nice to her. Much better than my own boyfriends. But I still dont think he wouldve taken any of his relationships seriously.

[leahsm2]

Whatever else I think of Sirius Black, I think he was his own person. I do not think he was merely "led astray" by "Gryffindor peer pressure". I think he somewhat deliberately (1) chose Gryffindor over Slytherin, and it wasn't just peer pressure.

However, I don't think he's the "lvoe god" so many fanfictions make him out to be. Yeah, he was good looking, rich, popular, pureblood, smart and whatever-else-Golden-Boy/Gary-Stu-ish. However, he utterly ignored the girls trying to get his attention when he was sixteen, and by sixteen, most boys have hit puberty. And usually, even the gay ones are going after girls.

Now, either he was unbelievably chic and sophisticated (and completely mentally-ill narcissistic, which the behaviour with Harry doesn't support), or he already had someone, or he was gay.

I'd *really* rather he "already had someone else" even if she were the smartest, prettiest & most well-connected of the girls than the other two choices, because the first lends entirely too much credence to the "Gryffindors can do no wrong" mentality, and the last would mean *yet another* somewhat "bad example" (have I mentioned I *detest* Sirius Black?) is the so-called "token gay character".

(I'd rather Dean & Seamus gay than Sirius, because we know them and see them in a "normal" light.)

(1) - have I mentioned how absurdly unfair it is to judge you for the rest of your life based upon a "chioce" you make when you are at the ripe old age of eleven and can't even fully understand the lifetime consequences of this "choice"???

Man, I missed all of this. First of all, I don't think Sirius has to be "Gary Stuish" or whatever or gay or whatever. I think he's important in fanfiction because he touches people because of his passion. He is meant to be a archetypical hero, I think, brought down by his fatal flaw, his passion. It's appealing.