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Thread: When the Prophecy was Made (slight DH spoilers)

  1. #1
    MrsRuebeusHagridDursley
    Guest

    When the Prophecy was Made (slight DH spoilers)

    So, does anybody know around what time Trelawny made the prophecy about Harry and Voldemort? The way it's worded makes me think it was made before Harry was born, but in POA somebody say something about the Potters being killed just a few weeks after the Fidelius Charm was preformed.

    Giving that Harry was born in July, 1980, Lily and James would have know about the pregnancy and had a due date somewhere around Christmas 1979, or early in the new year. There's also the problem of Harry being over a year old when James and Lily were killed. After if Peter had been in the employ of Voldemort for a while (which I think he was, someody in that same conversation in POA says that Dumbledore thought someone *coughPetercough* close to the Potters had been passing information to him for a long time) why would he wait a long time to turn them in? The longer he waited would raise the risk of incuring Voldy's wrath wouldn't it?

    So I need to know about when Lily and James went into hiding and when the Prophecy was made.

    Thanksr anybody for any help!

    ~Morgan

  2. #2
    megan_lupin
    Guest
    I think Dumbledore mentions in OotP that the prophecy was made "shortly before your birth". I've always thought it would be around June or so, and Dumbledore has the suspicion about it being either Neville or Harry, as he knows both Alice and Lily were pregnant at the time. Then, of course, both boys are born.

    Now, the way I've always thought of the events is that the Potters tried other methods of hiding and whatnot BEFORE they performed the Fidelius Charm. Sirius mentions in PoA that Peter "was passing information to Voldemort for a year before Lily and James died" (not an exact quote, as I don't have the books handy). That's always led me to believe that Peter started working for Voldemort around the time Trelawney made the prophecy -- which, like I mentioned, I've always seen as happening in June of 1980 or early July.

    I don't see Dumbledore as alerting either the Potters or the Longbottoms of the full danger right away, either. I'd think he would almost want to watch and see if there's a spy -- because, if I'm right in thinking that both events were close to each other, then at the time of the prophecy being made, it wouldn't have been 100% clear that there was a spy.

    As the year went on and it became clearer and clearer to Dumbledore and the Order that there was a spy, he figured it was time to take greater action, and suggested a Fidelius Charm to Lily and James. Well, time has to pass long enough for them to suspect Remus, ask Sirius, Sirius to suggest Peter, the charm be performed, etc. before it's actually cast and they're in hiding in Godric's Hollow.

    I don't see everything happening too quickly, especially considering you're dealing with friendships like that of the Marauders. I think the suspicion would take awhile to develop, and then I don't see them casting the charm INSTANTLY after Dumbledore suggests that they use it.

    And if I didn't have to leave to pick up my brother right now (and I'm already running late), I'd say a bit more.

    ~Megan, who hopes to be back soon.

  3. #3
    Ryan The Wizard
    Guest
    Dumbledore stated that he was interviewing Trelawney for the post of Divination teacher. This means school must have just gotten out, so I believe the prophecy was made in early July.

    Moderator's Edit: Please proofread all posts before you submit them.

  4. #4
    Penna4
    Guest
    I think that it was made before Harry's birth. The only reason I think this is because she made the Prophency during her job interview with Dumbledore. After that she got the job because Dumbledore wanted to keep her away from Lord Voldemort. In OotP on pp. 314, Trelawney says that she has worked there for nearly Sixteen years. In OotP, Harry is only fifteen, so it's pretty probable that she made it before Harry was born.

  5. #5
    megan_lupin
    Guest
    From page 839 of the American Hardback Edition of Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix:
    "Voldemort tried to kill you when you were a child because of a prophecy made shortly before your birth."
    From page 374 of the American Hardback Edition of Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban:
    "Don't lie!" bellowed Black. "You'd been passing information to him for a year before Lily and James died! You were his spy!"
    *I chose to not write this is all caps, though the passage in the book is.
    From pages 205-206 of the American Hardback Edition of Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban:
    "But James Potter insisted on using Black?"

    "He did," said Fudge heavily. "And then, barely a week after the Fidelius Charm had been performed --"

    "Black betrayed them?" breathed Madam Rosmerta.

    "He did indeed."
    (And this is just the few that came to mind. I seriously had all my multiple copies of the books open on my bed last night to pages talking about the Prophecy's and the Fidelius Charm's time frame trying to figure some things out.)

    The way I see it happening is that the Prophecy was made either in late June or early July of 1980, no more than a month or so before Harry was born. However, by Dumbledore's line in OotP, the prophecy was made before Harry's birth on 31 July 1980.

    Harry lived for 15 months before James and Lily were killed -- from 31 July 1980 to 31 October 1981. Peter, I see, as turning to Voldemort anywhere from around the time of the Prophecy being made (so late June/early July of 1980) to any of the few months following that, and up to perhaps the end of the year of 1980. Sirius's line of "passing information for a year" does not necessarily have to be mean an *exact* year. If Peter turned around November/December of that year, then one could easily say a year when talking about it in conversation.

    Also, Fudge's line about "barely a week" implies that it was a little over seven days between the casting of the charm and the death of the Potters, but not quite two weeks or so. Perhaps it was line nine or ten days, which could be said to be "a little over a week" or "barely over a week".

    Finally, like I mentioned in my previous post, I don't think Dumbledore alerted the Potters to the full nature of the danger immediately after he heard the Prophecy. As such, I don't see them casting the Fidelius Charm immediately, either. I don't think Voldemort instantly thought of the Potters after Snape told him of the Prophecy, but rather sort of just thought on and pondered the idea at first. Then, when he does finally make the decision to go after the Potters, that's when Snape informs Dumbledore of the danger, as was revealed in DH, and it is at that moment that he tells the Potters to cast the Fidelius Charm.

    From page 204-205 of the American Hardback Edition of Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban:
    "Not many people are aware that the Potters knew You-Know-Who was after them. Dumbledore, who was of course working tirelessly against You-Know-Who, had a number of useful spies. One of them tipped him off, and he alerted James and Lily at once. He advised them to go into hiding. Well, of course, You-Know-Who wasn't an easy person to hide from. Dumbledore told them that their best chance was the Fidelius Charm."
    So, once Dumbledore tells James and Lily that they are in grave danger and that they should use the Fidelius Charm, they decide to have Sirius do it. Dumbledore offers himself to be Secret Keeper, but they decline. Then, you would have to have time for them to first ask Sirius, then for Sirius to think up the plan with Peter and decline the job for himself, then for the charm to be cast. It isn't until the casting of the charm that the "barely a week" countdown would begin. The other events -- from the telling to the casting -- could have been a couple of days in themselves.

    Peter, therefore, wouldn't necessarily be keeping the information for too long, and even the amount of time he did keep it could have been something like doubts in his mind. I don't know, perhaps his conscience started to speak to him for a bit?

    Also, it is unclear if Voldemort went to the Potters' *immediately* after Peter told the location. He could have told him only a day or two after the Charm was performed, but Voldemort wanted to wait, to plan, etc. for a couple more days before he actually went on Halloween.

    And those are the thoughts that had been interrupted from my last post!

    ~Megan

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