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  1. #1
    padfootsgirl1981
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    Dark Marks

    Hi! I was just wondering whether the original Order of the Phoenix would have been aware of the Death Eater's Dark Marks, and so been aware that they were a source of communication between Voldemort and his followers? In particular I would like to know whether the Marauders and Lily were aware of them.

    I know there was a passage in GOF which made it seem like Sirius didn't know about them, but I was always under the impression that they would have done.

    Also do you think that I could put down Sirius' lack of knowledge down to a momentary memory lapse? Or perhaps say that he didn't want to alert Harry to the fact that Snape was a Death Eater?

    I would really like some help with this as it would make my life a lot easier if Sirius did indeed know about the Dark Marks.

    Thanks in advance!

  2. #2
    megan_lupin
    Guest
    Personally, I don't think the entire Order would have been aware of the Dark Marks on the Death Eaters, and everything that they entailed. Dumbledore might have known, especially if Snape happened to tell him during a meeting or something (because I feel like they at least met a couple times before Halloween 1981), but I don't believe the knowledge would have been known by a great deal of -- or the whole -- Order in the First War.

    When Snape shows his Dark Mark to Fudge and co. in the Hospital in GoF, it seems like it is only now becoming knowledge that is known outside of the Death Eaters -- I doubt the Ministry knew about such an identifying feature, otherwise you would have just had people ordering to see a left forearm on suspected Death Eaters in order to prove/disprove the allegations.

    However, in terms of Sirius ... He is a Black, in reality, so I find it likely that he would know a bit more about the Mark than the average Order member during the First War. Yes, he was only 16 when he left home, but Voldemort's rise started in the early seventies, if I'm not mistaken, so around the time when Sirius was 11. As such, I'm sure that knowledge of Voldemort and the Death Eaters went around the Black family at times, and that the location of a Dark Mark -- whether or not all of its uses and features -- would have been something that you could logically and believably make him aware of knowing.

    In terms of Snape, I find it highly unlikely that he would do or say anything that would lessen Harry's hatred of Snape. If Harry thought that Snape was a Death Eater, I seriously doubt that Sirius would be anywhere in line to suggest differently or whatnot. It's possible that he didn't say anything about it then because of a memory lapse -- The First War *did* end almost 13 years in the past, and Sirius *had* spent a dozen years in the company of Dementors, after all. Dark Marks tattooed on the forearms of Death Eaters would probably not be the most relevant of information that he would remember at the time.

    You could also work it that Sirius, having grown up as a Black, was aware that Death Eaters were branded with the Mark and it was a connection to Voldemort, but was unaware of its exact location. Combine the fact that he didn't know it was on an arm to begin with with the fact of it being so long since Dark Marks on Death Eaters' arm had anything to do with conversation, and you can have a reasonable and believable method for him having slipped with the information in GoF, yet still know *about* it for your story.

    I hope that helped (and I hope you can understand it through all my mindless rambling )

    ~Megan

  3. #3
    padfootsgirl1981
    Guest
    Wow! Thanks that helped loads! I think you've given me everything I need pretty much. But if anyone else has any thoughts, please feel free to share .

  4. #4
    cmwinters
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by padfootsgirl1981
    Hi! I was just wondering whether the original Order of the Phoenix would have been aware of the Death Eater's Dark Marks, and so been aware that they were a source of communication between Voldemort and his followers? In particular I would like to know whether the Marauders and Lily were aware of them.
    In HBP (it might have also been in GoF), Arthur Weasley tells Harry that "last time" the Mark was cast into the sky all the time so I'm quite certain they knew about them.

    Quote Originally Posted by padfootsgirl1981
    I know there was a passage in GOF which made it seem like Sirius didn't know about them, but I was always under the impression that they would have done.

    Also do you think that I could put down Sirius' lack of knowledge down to a momentary memory lapse? Or perhaps say that he didn't want to alert Harry to the fact that Snape was a Death Eater?
    Sirius didn't KNOW that Snape was a Death Eater. At the end of GoF, right after Snape's shown his Mark to Fudge and right before Dumbledore dispatches Snape to go back to the Dark Lord, Dumbledore says something about the two of them (Snape & Black) revealing themselves to each other and forces them to shake hands.

    Quote Originally Posted by padfootsgirl1981
    I would really like some help with this as it would make my life a lot easier if Sirius did indeed know about the Dark Marks.

    Thanks in advance!
    He knew. He just didn't know about Snape's.

  5. #5
    MrsRuebeusHagridDursley
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by cmwinters
    In HBP (it might have also been in GoF), Arthur Weasley tells Harry that "last time" the Mark was cast into the sky all the time so I'm quite certain they knew about them.
    This would just show that they knew the mark was his symbol, not that he tattooed it on all of his followers arms. Also, remember, Arthur and Molly were not part of the original Order.

    Quote Originally Posted by megan_lupin
    I doubt the Ministry knew about such an identifying feature, otherwise you would have just had people ordering to see a left forearm on suspected Death Eaters in order to prove/disprove the allegations.
    I was always under the impression that there would have been ways of hiding it. Surely Voldemort wouldn't want his followers to be found and arrested so easily.

    What if the only thing the order (or, at least, Sirius) knew about it was that there was an identifying mark, not exactly where it was? (I think Megan touched on that possibility as well...)

    I hope this helps!

    ~Morgan

  6. #6
    cmwinters
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by MrsRuebeusHagridDursley
    I was always under the impression that there would have been ways of hiding it. Surely Voldemort wouldn't want his followers to be found and arrested so easily.
    It only burned black when they were being summoned. The rest of the time it is faded and not as visible.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrsRuebeusHagridDursley
    What if the only thing the order (or, at least, Sirius) knew about it was that there was an identifying mark, not exactly where it was? (I think Megan touched on that possibility as well...)
    *Please*.

    Sirius came from a family of Death Eaters and Death Eater supporters. His *parents* supported the Dark Lord. He knew about the Mark. His first cousin, his brother, and his cousin's husband are all Death Eaters. He was *in prison* for being a suspected Death Eater, with a bunch of other Death Eaters. How *genuinely plausible* do you think it is that Sirius simply didn't know about the Mark at all?

    /me lines up Potions bottles

  7. #7
    megan_lupin
    Guest
    I was under the impression that the Mark had only faded to a point of near-invisibility AFTER Voldemort fell on Halloween. I know it only technically burns completely black while a Death Eater is being summoned, but the rest of the time, it's still visible.

    In GoF, we know that both Snape and Karkaroff's Marks were steadily growing darker -- more visible -- all year long. This, we later discover, really had to do with Voldemort growing in power and gaining strength. Yes, it didn't "burn black" until Voldemort summoned the Death Eaters to the graveyard, but it wasn't completely invisible up until that point. Even in the graveyard, Harry's sees Wormtail's Mark as being red, I believe, but it turns black after Voldemort touches it to summon the others, and Snape's Mark is also red in the Hospital scene at the end, and he himself mentions that it isn't as dark as it was before, when it burned black, but it was evidently still visible to a degree, otherwise, how would he have shown the others?

    As for Sirius knowing about the Mark, I've always thought that he would have known at least ABOUT them, if nothing more. We know, however, that Voldemort didn't really start his rise to power until the early seventies, which would be Sirius's first few years in school. While we do know that Bella became a Death Eater, we really don't know exactly when that happened -- if it happened in the very beginning of Voldemort's reign or later on into it a bit and closer towards the end. Sirius was also nine years younger than Bella, so we really don't know how much interaction he had with her, either.

    In terms of Regulus, if we figure that he was only a year younger than Sirius, then he would have only been 15 when Sirius ran away. Like with Bella, we really don't know how much more interaction he had with his brother after this point, but it's a safe assumption that Regulus would not have been a Death Eater and branded with the Mark at this age.

    So, while it seems highly likely that he would have, at the very least, known about the Mark, it can still be worked that he might not have full knowledge about it. I do find it difficult to believe that he would have been completely ignorant of the Mark and everything to do with it, especially having grown up a Black -- a family that had quite a Dark reputation, were supposedly supporters of Voldemort's ideology as well, and at the very least, produced two Death Eaters.

    But, at the same time, if he *never* had any interaction with any of his family after running away, and if Bella hadn't been Marked before that event, it's possible for him not to know everything about that aspect of being a Death Eater.

    ~Megan

  8. #8
    padfootsgirl1981
    Guest
    Wow! Guys I can't thank you all enough. You've given me a lot of possible ideas to consider there. All your information has made my job of writing loads easier. Thanks so much!

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