James Potter

[cmwinters]

I had a question- Do you think that James (and the other Marauders) would have said Voldemort's name? I would think so because James is so arrogant and thinks he's so great that I could see his using it. Also because he does join the Order and Dumbledore encouraged everyone (at least in the second war) to call Voldemort by his name. The only reason I have to support him not using it was because it appears that people were more afraid in the first war. That this was completly new, nothing like this had happened since Grindelwald. In the second war, they have the knowledge that someone (Harry) has already "beaten" him, which may have made them feel a teensy bit better.
What do you think?

I think this depends on a couple of things. One, how canon compliant do you want to make your story with Deathly Hallows, and two, do you think the "Trace" was active in the first war.

Now, I think there was some sort of Trace active; maybe it was only active on the actual Death Eaters (via the Dark Mark), and Harry is the exception to the rule because of the Scarcrux. However, if any Joe Schmoe on the street speaking the Dark Lord's name were to bring the wrath of evil down upon you, then no, I don't think James would have said the name, unless you want to make that one of the ways in which he defied the Dark Lord.

However, the whole Trace thing, quite frankly, I found pretty stupid. First of all, Harry had already been told about it and then just goes blurting out names for no reason. Second, SOMEONE is going to figure out pretty darned quick that if you say the Dark Lord's name, the Dark Lord and/or his appointed minions will Apparate in on you at will . . . so why not just set up a trap and say it? POOF! No more Death Eaters!

If you discount the trace on the general public entirely (even discount it on Death Eater Pettigrew who was passing information for a year, then yes, I think James would've said it. Sirius too. Probably not Peter, because he's kind of spineless, and maybe not Lupin, who's just generally non-confrontational.

[Amber0_o]

unless you want to make that one of the ways in which he defied the Dark Lord.


About this subject here, I believe Jo recently relayed how Frank and Alice Longbottom defied the Dark Lord, and they simply were Order members who tried to stop the Death Eaters from gaining ground. So, really, I don't think James had to do something that directly tied him to Voldemort to count as a defiance.

[moonymaniac]

I think this depends on a couple of things. One, how canon compliant do you want to make your story with Deathly Hallows, and two, do you think the "Trace" was active in the first war.

….

However, the whole Trace thing, quite frankly, I found pretty stupid. First of all, Harry had already been told about it and then just goes blurting out names for no reason.

I think we are talking about two separate traces here, aren’t we? I could definitely be wrong, since I have only read the book once, but I think the Trace that Harry was told about was the one that was on underage wizards that kept track of their performance of magic outside of school. This is the one that was removed upon his 17th birthday that they (the Trio) thought might still be in place somehow, when they were found in the Muggle part of town. The second trace, the one actually used to find them that particular time, was the one to track anyone saying Voldemort. Harry didn’t figure this out until later. I can’t remember who or how they figured it out, but didn’t they just decide that there must be a trace on the word when Death Eaters kept showing up when Harry said it? I need to read this again.

But anyway, I got the impression that the Voldemort Trace was only put into use after the Ministry fell into Voldemort’s hands and that it was possible because of Ministry resources. If that is the case, the Marauders wouldn’t have had to worry about it, because I don’t believe the Ministry ever came under Voldemort’s control in the first war.

Of course, if there was some sort of trace through Voldemort himself back then, and Death Eaters popped up every time someone said Voldemort and killed them, that would certainly explain why people were afraid to say it.

Still, I don’t think that was the case. I think Dumbledore would have figured it out and warned people not to say it for their own protection rather than encouraging them not to fear it.

At any rate, I think James would definitely have said it. Just as others have said, he was probably far too confident and yes, arrogant to think a word could harm him. And he was brave as well. I think the same would be true of Sirius and Remus (though Remus wouldn’t have been arrogant about it. ). They had no problems saying it later, no flinching, or anything. It just seems to me that they would have always been that way. Peter, not so much.

Beth: Very detailed and insightful. 5 points

[tbsbooboo]

James Potter played the Chaser position in the books, but in the movie, they made him a Seeker. Here at MNFF, we comply with the books, not the movies.

As to how James Potter got to be Head Boy, I know that there is a quote or two in the book about it (don't have my books available at the moment so I can't show you where). Seems like James really just cleaned up his act, and Dumbledore probably saw the potential in him. Or maybe Dumbledore knew that James would behave when given the responsibilities of Head Boy.

I think that he got head boy because Lilly had calmed him down a bit. He didn't get prefect because he didn't have Lilly yet, so he was still a bit rambunctious ? Just a guess.

[Fawkes_the_Phoenix]

I think that he got head boy because Lilly had calmed him down a bit. He didn't get prefect because he didn't have Lilly yet, so he was still a bit rambunctious ? Just a guess.

I disagree because at the start of seventh year I don't believe that James had Lily. I think they got together sometime early to mid seventh year, but not before. Unless I'm completely wrong and it says somewhere in the books exactly when in seventh year Lily and James started going out.

James was definetly too rambunctious during fifth year. We see this in Snape's memory. He's immature and still runs around hexing people for fun. If he were made prefect at that time then he would have just run around taking points from Slytherin (which I still think he found every excuse to do as Head Boy, but as Head he was more responsible). He already has the power of magic and popularity inflating his ego, I think Dumbledore would have realized that adding the position of Prefect would have made it tens times worse than it already was.

I think that towards the end of sixth year and the summer that followed the war was really beginning to pick up. This might have helped James mature and see that life isn't all going to be about pulling pranks. He saw the terrible things that Voldemort was doing and wanted to take a stand against him. Dumbledore must have recognized this and found that James would make an excellent Head Boy.

...or Dumbledore just felt like playing matchmaker and guessed that by forcing Lily to work with James they would end up together. And we all know that Dumbledore's guesses are usually correct

but seriously, I think that the war played a part in James maturing and Dumbledore thought that the new, more responsible James would be a good Head.

~Kacie

[voldy_mort]

I had a question- Do you think that James (and the other Marauders) would have said Voldemort's name? I would think so because James is so arrogant and thinks he's so great that I could see his using it.
Also because he does join the Order and Dumbledore encouraged everyone (at least in the second war) to call Voldemort by his name. The only reason I have to support him not using it was because it appears that people were more afraid in the first war. That this was completly new, nothing like this had happened since Grindelwald. In the second war, they have the knowledge that someone (Harry) has already "beaten" him, which may have made them feel a teensy bit better.
What do you think?

I also agree that James and teh other Marauders would ahve used Voldemort's name. I don't think that the Voldemort trace would have been active in the First War, simply because, during the second war, none of the older characters, who would have been around during the First war, knew about the Trace until later. If the Trace had been in existence during teh First War, then the Order members who were caught during the Second War would have known aout it not have gotten caught.

Secondly, James Potter was an arrogant, but brave character. He would not have been scared of using the name, and, assuming that he was also in close contact with Dumbledore, as he obvioudly would have been as Head Boy, he would have been told that "fear of the name increases fear of teh thing itself" one of the HP books.
JAmes would not have been that cowardly, as, as he has 'thrice defied the Dark Lord' it should be safe to assume that he was not scared of him [Voldemort] enough to not say the name.

Yeah. So that's what I think. Hope I helped,

~Sitara

[MerryD]

I have to go back to the wee binningings of this thread and defend Harry and James.

I doubt that James was that "boyishly handsome" or had "stunningly good looks."

The most obvious source for this conclusion is Harry. Harry has been described as looking *exactly* like his father too many times to even begin to mention. Now, Harry has had a sum total of two girlfriends. Wow. In all 6 + 1 years of magical education/saving the world, he has had two girlfriends. IN most fictions I read about James, he has eighteen. A week. One a day. Now, don't ask me how he can have eighteen girlfriends, on a day, in one week. It doesn't matter. James is superman.

All right, so Harry had two girlfriends. He also had the Sorcerer's stone, the Chamber of Secrets, a murdering godfather, the Triwizard Tournament/Death Eaters, the Order of the Phoenix/the wizarding world hating him/Voldemort in his head, and horcruxes to think about. I think we should give him credit for managing to have two girlfriends with all of this going on around him.

Let's look at those two girlfriends. Cho Chang. She was pretty and popular. Former girlfriend of Cedric Diggory. He had 'stunning good looks.' I doubt she would go from that to someone isn't very attractive. I also don't think she would go for someone just for their fame. So, she had to actually like Harry and let's face it: most attractions are based first and foremost on looks.

Ginny Wealsey. In HBP, Harry's thoughts say that he and Ron have agreed that Ginny is 'much to popular.' So, Ginny is also pretty and popular. Unlikely that she would go for a guy without looks. One could agrue that she's always had a small crush on Harry, so looks would be less of a factor with her. But ten-, eleven-, twelve- year olds don't crush on unattractive guys.

Moreover, Hermione actually tells us that Harry is good looking in HBP.

"Oh, come on, Harry," said Hermione, suddenly impatient. "It's not Quidditch that's popular, it's you! You've never been more interesting, and frankly, you've never been more fanciable."

I think we can conclude that Harry is reasonably good looking. Therefore, making James good looking.

All this being said, I wouldn't mind if all the fics with James having a million girlfriends suddenly disappeared.

mere

[Parchment and Quill]

kask brings up a good point about how Snape was friends with people who used the dark arts just for fun. There is a big difference between hexing people and cursing people. If Snape and Co. were running around cursing people with the dark magic then I feel that James had some right so strike back. I'm not saying that he should have hexed just anyone, but if Snape used dark arts then he had it coming to him.

I had a question- Do you think that James (and the other Marauders) would have said Voldemort's name? I would think so because James is so arrogant and thinks he's so great that I could see his using it. Also because he does join the Order and Dumbledore encouraged everyone (at least in the second war) to call Voldemort by his name. The only reason I have to support him not using it was because it appears that people were more afraid in the first war. That this was completly new, nothing like this had happened since Grindelwald. In the second war, they have the knowledge that someone (Harry) has already "beaten" him, which may have made them feel a teensy bit better.
What do you think?

Yep, James would of been saying it since he was born! Or at least the whole time Voldemort started to get into the open and voice his views in the first war and before. James would have done it not only because he wasn't afraid of him, but also to make everyone believe that he was brave and to boost his ego even more! He's an arrogant toerag! I see him doing it to show off and make himself even higher then other people. Well, at least at first anyway.

Look at the post by moonymaniac. It's excellent.

With the other Marauders, I think both Remus and Sirius (definitely Sirius) would have said it, no question. Maybe not for the same reasons for Remus. Peter, on the other hand would be a little more afraid and would be more cautious about it. Of course, he would of done it to fit in with the others more, but he would be cautious and apprehensive about it.

And with what someone else said about James saying it to make a trace go off so he had to defy Voldemort, I don't agree. There wasn't a trace in the first war, the trace only came into existence when Voldemort took over the Ministry. Another thing, James isn't that stupid. He wouldn't go looking for trouble that big, even if he was in The Order.

As to how James Potter got to be Head Boy, I know that there is a quote or two in the book about it (don't have my books available at the moment so I can't show you where). Seems like James really just cleaned up his act, and Dumbledore probably saw the potential in him. Or maybe Dumbledore knew that James would behave when given the responsibilities of Head Boy.

James was definitely too rambunctious during fifth year. We see this in Snape's memory. He's immature and still runs around hexing people for fun. If he were made prefect at that time then he would have just run around taking points from Slytherin (which I still think he found every excuse to do as Head Boy, but as Head he was more responsible). He already has the power of magic and popularity inflating his ego, I think Dumbledore would have realized that adding the position of Prefect would have made it tens times worse than it already was.

I think that towards the end of sixth year and the summer that followed the war was really beginning to pick up. This might have helped James mature and see that life isn't all going to be about pulling pranks. He saw the terrible things that Voldemort was doing and wanted to take a stand against him. Dumbledore must have recognized this and found that James would make an excellent Head Boy.

...or Dumbledore just felt like playing matchmaker and guessed that by forcing Lily to work with James they would end up together. And we all know that Dumbledore's guesses are usually correct

but seriously, I think that the war played a part in James maturing and Dumbledore thought that the new, more responsible James would be a good Head.

~Kacie

LOL, Dumbledore playing matchmaker. Still, I don't think Dumbledore would do that. Funny though!

Hmm, I think James deflated his head in his sixth year. Why? Because (according to the HP Lexicon) James saves Snape in his sixth year. I think he would have grown up at least a little since fifth year to of been able to do that. (Link to the Lexicon page where I got my information: Here. Look at the date 1976 - 1977 school year). Adding on to that, the war would have made him grow up a lot. Some in his sixth year but a lot more in the summer before his seventh. This all contributing to him showing Dumbledore that he would be a good Head Boy.

Oh, and I pretty sure that it doesn't say when they started going out, just that it was seventh year.

'She started going out with him in seventh year,' said Lupin.
'Once James had deflated his head a bit,' said Sirius.
'And stopped hexing people for the fun of it,' said Lupin.

This Quote was taken out of Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix, Page 591 - UK version.

Yeah, a combination of the growing war and age that made him grow up enough to not only become Head Boy but Lily Evans Boyfriend.

I have to go back to the wee binningings of this thread and defend Harry and James.

I doubt that James was that "boyishly handsome" or had "stunningly good looks."

The most obvious source for this conclusion is Harry. Harry has been described as looking *exactly* like his father too many times to even begin to mention. Now, Harry has had a sum total of two girlfriends. Wow. In all 6 + 1 years of magical education/saving the world, he has had two girlfriends. IN most fictions I read about James, he has eighteen. A week. One a day. Now, don't ask me how he can have eighteen girlfriends, on a day, in one week. It doesn't matter. James is superman.

All right, so Harry had two girlfriends. He also had the Sorcerer's stone, the Chamber of Secrets, a murdering godfather, the Tri-wizard Tournament/Death Eaters, the Order of the Phoenix/the wizarding world hating him/Voldemort in his head, and horcruxes to think about. I think we should give him credit for managing to have two girlfriends with all of this going on around him.

Let's look at those two girlfriends. Cho Chang. She was pretty and popular. Former girlfriend of Cedric Diggory. He had 'stunning good looks.' I doubt she would go from that to someone isn't very attractive. I also don't think she would go for someone just for their fame. So, she had to actually like Harry and let's face it: most attractions are based first and foremost on looks.

Ginny Weasley. In HBP, Harry's thoughts say that he and Ron have agreed that Ginny is 'much to popular.' So, Ginny is also pretty and popular. Unlikely that she would go for a guy without looks. One could agrue that she's always had a small crush on Harry, so looks would be less of a factor with her. But ten-, eleven-, twelve- year olds don't crush on unattractive guys.

Moreover, Hermione actually tells us that Harry is good looking in HBP.

"Oh, come on, Harry," said Hermione, suddenly impatient. "It's not Quidditch that's popular, it's you! You've never been more interesting, and frankly, you've never been more fanciable."

I think we can conclude that Harry is reasonably good looking. Therefore, making James good looking.

All this being said, I wouldn't mind if all the fic's with James having a million girlfriends suddenly disappeared.

mere

James was extremely popular in his school days. That's canon. Also, a lot of girls liked him when he was fifteen at least. This is shown in the Snapes Memory in Order of the Phoenix. (Or I'm pretty sure it's shown there). If he went out with all of the girls in Hogwarts, I think we can assume he didn't. And anyway, I don't think he'd be able to go out with a lot of Lily's friends because she'd deter them from the idea of going out with him.

Harry is good looking, Hermione say's it. I'm agreeing quite heavily with MerryD here. And he had two girlfriends, so what? That doesn't mean he couldn't of had more. Cho Chang was a disaster, let's face it. And once he went out with Ginny, there was no going back. He was pre-occupied, heavily weighed down by the strange and often tragic and evil events that have happened in his life.

And also on what MerryD said, the girls he went out with weren't your average girls. They were pretty, popular girls who a lot of people wanted to go out with. I mean, Cho dated a Tri-wizard Tournament guy (Ok, she dated two in the end) and Ginny dated TWO people before hand, her ending both relationships.

So, looking on Harry's dating situation and looks, I'd say with almost certainty that James one: had a lot of girlfriends (maybe five or six, but no more. He's a loyal person, so I don't think he'd cheat or be a player), two: was very good looking (I mean, look at Harry! His son?) and three: he married Lily Evans who was also a very pretty, popular girl who was extremely smart and caring.

MerryD - I agree, lets make all the 'James-has-a-million-girlfriend' fic's disappear. Ban them, maybe. I'm sick of reading them! (It's almost had clichéd as Sirius being a player, but lets not get into that).


Note: In PotterCast 130: The one with J.K. Rowing, Jo says that Lily and James both defy Voldemort by refusing to join his ranks before they were out of school - meaning before they graduated. (Link: Here or download for free on iTunes).

~ Parchment and Quill

[witch6]

So, looking on Harry's dating situation and looks, I'd say with almost certainty that James one: had a lot of girlfriends (maybe five or six, but no more. He's a loyal person, so I don't think he'd cheat or be a player), two: was very good looking (I mean, look at Harry! His son?) and three: he married Lily Evans who was also a very pretty, popular girl who was extremely smart and caring.

I personally feel Harry was okay-looking rather than being exceptionally good-looking, and so was James. Reasons being that Harry has always been described as short and skinny for his age. That might changed when he became older (around 15-16), but still I don't think he managed to become one of the best-looking guys in the school.

With another shock of excitement, Harry saw Sirius give James the thumbs-up. Sirius was lounging in his chair at at his ease, tilting it back on two legs. He was very good-looking; his dark hair fell into his eyes with a sort of casual elegance neither James nor Harry's could could ever have achieved, and a girl sitting behind him was eyeing him hopefully, though he didn't seem to have noticed.

Snape's Worst Memory, Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix

I know this sentence pertains to Sirius and not James but all I want to prove is it's only Sirius who has ever been described with looks that one would envy. Neither Harry nor James have never been described as good-looking. They didn't look bad or unattractive, they were just not those people about whom the first thing you'd notice is looks.

As for James having a lot of girlfriends, I differ again. Yes, he was popular and loyal and brave, but the most part of his dating years (well, you know you generally date people when you turn fourteen or so) he was trying to persuade Lily to go out with him. And I don't think he would do so if he was dating somebody else already. So, the number of girlfriends he had before he was attracted to Lily can't cross two because as we see he is the sort of person who once likes a girl doesn't give up easily. What I mean is that he went behind Lily for three years (or maybe two) even after she continually rejected him, and ended up marrying and having a child with her. So, I really don't see him having a girlfriend a week before that.

I hope I made sense!

[cmwinters]

I disagree because at the start of seventh year I don't believe that James had Lily. I think they got together sometime early to mid seventh year, but not before. Unless I'm completely wrong and it says somewhere in the books exactly when in seventh year Lily and James started going out.

Not specifically, just that it was "sometime" during seventh year.

James was definetly too rambunctious during fifth year. We see this in Snape's memory. He's immature and still runs around hexing people for fun.

I think that behaviour was reserved just for Snape, because at the time of that memory — at least at the beginning of it — Lily was Severus' best friend, and he hers. He messed that up by calling her Mudblood, and *that's* what made it his worst memory, that he insulted and lost his friend (and love interest).

If he were made prefect at that time then he would have just run around taking points from Slytherin (which I still think he found every excuse to do as Head Boy, but as Head he was more responsible).

Prefects cannot take points. Draco Malfoy did so, but he was able to do so because he was a member of Umbridges Inquisitorial Squad, not because he was a prefect.

I think that towards the end of sixth year and the summer that followed the war was really beginning to pick up. This might have helped James mature and see that life isn't all going to be about pulling pranks.

Supposedly, James saw the error of his ways when Sirius tried to have Snape killed by Lupin. (*whatever*)

He saw the terrible things that Voldemort was doing and wanted to take a stand against him. Dumbledore must have recognized this and found that James would make an excellent Head Boy.

Ah, so your politics agreeing with the Headmaster's pet cause are necessary to be promoted, not your accomplishments? I guess that would make Tom Riddle the last Slytherin Head Boy.

...or Dumbledore just felt like playing matchmaker and guessed that by forcing Lily to work with James they would end up together. And we all know that Dumbledore's guesses are usually correct

Well, DH compliant Dumbledore is definitely manipulative, vicious and cavalier enough.

but seriously, I think that the war played a part in James maturing and Dumbledore thought that the new, more responsible James would be a good Head.

Or it could be that he turned a blind eye to his past transgressions in favour of a student who had mastered (with relatively little instruction) Dumbledore's own pet subject, had top grades and was a top athlete, and was popular, rich, and good looking to boot.

That would also be very DH compliant Dumbledore.

Yes, he was popular and loyal and brave

Yes, as proven by his refusal to take Snape on one-on-one.

I personally feel Harry was okay-looking rather than being exceptionally good-looking, and so was James. Reasons being that Harry has always been described as short and skinny for his age.

Please bear in mind that Harry was neglected, underfed and kept in a closet most of his life. Of course he's going to be short and skinny. But he does gain quite a bit of height between fifth and sixth year. And Hermione tells Harry outright "quite frankly you've never been more fanciable".

And with what someone else said about James saying it to make a trace go off so he had to defy Voldemort, I don't agree. There wasn't a trace in the first war, the trace only came into existence when Voldemort took over the Ministry. Another thing, James isn't that stupid. He wouldn't go looking for trouble that big, even if he was in The Order.

Then people being falt-out afraid to say the name *previous to the Dark Lord taking over the Ministry* makes absolutely no sense. And Snape freaking out when Harry does it during Occlumency training makes absolutely no sense.

I do, however, agree that James was not likely dating around, because it would have lessened his chances with Lily. She certainly wouldn't show interest in him at all in seventh year if he were dating and dumping every girl that crossed his path.