Helena Ravenclaw

I think that Helena is a very vain, very self-happy (is that a word?) person. She clearly thought herself higher than everyone else. I also see her as a jealous girl. Apparently she nearly had it all. Good looks, riches etc. But she didn't have her mother's knowledge and intellegence and so she stole the diadem.

Helena probably thought herself too high for the baron, after all, she did turn him down although he apparently was head over heels in love with her.

I don't think that Helena's father was either Godric or Salazar. I agree that Ravenclaw was Rowena's husband's name. However, if we are going to be romantic (:P) I think that Salazar is Helena's father. If Godric had been her father he would probably have stepped up and married Rowena, in order to save her virtue. Salazar was probably a frightening and violent person (from what we know). It wouldn't surprise me if Rowena was too afraid to tell him that she was pregnant with his child. Or perhaps she did tell him and he washed his hands of her. (Another reason for him to leave Hogwarts!!!)

Ooh... interesting:D

Yay for reviving this thread Gemma!

You've got some good points in there...

I agree with you on most points. Helena was definitely a very selfsh person but then what we have to take into consideration here is that she was also insecure. Even as a ghost, when she found someone (actually just Harry and Tom) who would listen to her, sympathasize with her and comfort her on her sad past, she would, after some persuasion, relent and open herself up to the other person quiet easily.

*looks up at username*
:D

Helena's father, Godric or Salazar?
Salazar. I just see Salazar. The way she acts is nothing like Godric. I picture Godric as a truthful andbrave man, while Salazar was probably vain and thought he was above others. The way I picture Helena is the way I picture Salazar.

And why is her surname Ravenclaw?
I don't think Ravenclaw was married. I've heard of single mothers giving their children their last names when their fathers leave or want nothing to do with their child. I think that's what happened with Helena, because I think Salazar was her father and he obviously left Hogwarts, so Rowena was left to raise her baby. I don't think Helena's father (Salazar or not) knew that Rowena was pregnant.

Her relationship with Hufflepuff...
I can't see her getting along well with Helga. She probably pushed her away. I don't believe that they had a good relationship if they had one at all, although I think that Rowena and Helga were best friends.

I see Helena as a person who thinks highly of herself. She put herself on a high pedestal. She was probably rather vain and haughty while she was living. This is one of the reasons why I see Salazar as her father. That is exactly how I envision he acted. I just can't see her being Godric's daughter just by seeing how she acting in DH.

I think Helena pushed people away. She was probably rather independent throughout her life. She didn't believe that anyone understood her and left it at that. So she kept people out. She had a wall around her that no one could penetrate. I don't think she ever truly loved anyone, maybe no even her mother. The Baron may of loved her, but she was probably disgusted by him or something or that sort. She must of been full of pride.

Helena's father, Godric or Salazar?

I am currently writing a Founder Era fan fiction and I always thought that all of the Founders had children with other people. We don't hear of the heir of Slytherin AND Ravenclaw. In my story I am saying that Helena was born before the creation of Hogwarts.


And why is her surname Ravenclaw?

There is nothing that says Ravenclaw is Rowena's maiden name. She could've married before she co-founded Hogwarts and gotten Ravenclaw from there. In my story I'm saying that she was married but her husband mysteriously disappeared.

Her relationship with Hufflepuff...

I think that Helga would be kind to Helena, but in the end, her friendship with Rowena would be more important. We don't even know if Helga had a huge amount to do with Helena.

Helena's father, Godric or Salazar?

I think that it was Salazar. He seems like the type of person that Ravenclaw would fall for. His haughtiness would probably make her curious, and his cunning would be just the thing to conteract and compliment her book intelligence. Also, I see Helena as a bit of a vain person, haughty and standoffish. That would also account for why Rowena wanted Helena to marry the baron, keeping the Slytherin in the family and all.

And why is her surname Ravenclaw?

I think that Rowena would be one of the original feminists, keeping her maiden name and passing it on to her child. Also, there's her work to consider. If she's published many papers under Ravenclaw, and is generally known under that name, it might be easier for her to keep her maiden name.

Her relationship with Hufflepuff...

Going on my thoughts that she was haughty and vain, I think that she would see Helga as beneath her, not as smart, or cunning or well-bred. I think her mother would have tried to convince her otherwise, but have no luck.

New TQ: What house do you think Helena was in?

Kate, half of the Frying Pan Squad! (No, you're not supposed to know what that means)

Partly in effort to bring on life back to this thread, and partly for a story . . .

Do any of you think it's possible that Helena was in Ravenclaw only a) because her mother was Ravenclaw's founder, b) Helena requested to be, because her mother was, or c)That she wasn't at all. Yes I realize thta she is the Grey lady, the ghost of Ravenclaw, but couldnt that be purely because of who her mother was. I do believe that she was in Ravenclaw, but I have a hard time conprehending why. It's kind of like, why in the world was Peter in Gryffindor. I mean, I think most of us gree that Helena bore a lot more Slytherin qualities than Ravenclaw. The Bloody Baron seemed to be less Slytherinistic (It's a word okay!) than Helena, which I found odd. Maybe it was strictly because of his love for her. But what we have heard of Helena, I see almost no true Ravenclaw qualities, except that she was smart enough to not only steal, but also hide the diadem. So help me understand please.

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Originally Posted by SlthrngNbltyWrtnINnk

Partly in effort to bring on life back to this thread, and partly for a story . . .

Do any of you think it's possible that Helena was in Ravenclaw only a) because her mother was Ravenclaw's founder, b) Helena requested to be, because her mother was, or c)That she wasn't at all. Yes I realize thta she is the Grey lady, the ghost of Ravenclaw, but couldnt that be purely because of who her mother was. I do believe that she was in Ravenclaw, but I have a hard time conprehending why. It's kind of like, why in the world was Peter in Gryffindor. I mean, I think most of us gree that Helena bore a lot more Slytherin qualities than Ravenclaw. The Bloody Baron seemed to be less Slytherinistic (It's a word okay!) than Helena, which I found odd. Maybe it was strictly because of his love for her. But what we have heard of Helena, I see almost no true Ravenclaw qualities, except that she was smart enough to not only steal, but also hide the diadem. So help me understand please.

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I see Helena as being an archetypical Ravenclaw, actually. Rather than being shrewd, I think Helena was desperate more than anything - she didn't want power or authority like the stereotypical Slytherin. Instead, she stole the diadem because she wanted to be as clever or cleverer than her mother Rowena. The main quality that defines a Ravenclaw is a thirst for knowledge, and that is precisely what motivated her to steal the diadem, believing it would grant her the wisdom she sought.

Tim the Enchanter

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Originally Posted by Tim the Enchanter

I see Helena as being an archetypical Ravenclaw, actually. Rather than being shrewd, I think Helena was desperate more than anything - she didn't want power or authority like the stereotypical Slytherin. Instead, she stole the diadem because she wanted to be as clever or cleverer than her mother Rowena. The main quality that defines a Ravenclaw is a thirst for knowledge, and that is precisely what motivated her to steal the diadem, believing it would grant her the wisdom she sought.

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Definitely this. I think actually Helena is some sort of a mixture between Ravenclaw and Slytherin, it's just something in the way she acts...
Apart from that, remember that in those days it was the four founders who sorted, and not the hat that could look directly in their heads. I can see Rowena overlooking the hypothetical Slytherin traits of her daughter and only see her eagerness to learn things.

Hhmm. I think Helena Ravenclaw was smart, but she was a little vain and/or selfish. She also was stubborn. In my opinion, the combination of pride and maybe being a little selfish was why she refused to marry the Baron. On the topic of stealing the diadem, I think she felt like she was in the shadow of her mother, and that she might of been jealous of that. She stole the diadem because she yearned to be at least as "smart" (and other things) as her mother.

I think that out of Gryffindor or Slytherin as her father, I think Slytherin would be the most likely pick, because that's where she would have gotten the "vainess" gene. I agree with that if Gryffindor was Helena's father, he probably would have married Rowena, unlike Slytherin.

Anyway, good luck! :)

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Originally Posted by SlthrngNbltyWrtnINnk

Do any of you think it's possible that Helena was in Ravenclaw only a) because her mother was Ravenclaw's founder, b) Helena requested to be, because her mother was, or c)That she wasn't at all.

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She was a Ravenclaw. Ghosts of a house were members of that house per an interview with Jo.

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Originally Posted by SlthrngNbltyWrtnINnk

Yes I realize thta she is the Grey lady, the ghost of Ravenclaw, but couldnt that be purely because of who her mother was. I do believe that she was in Ravenclaw, but I have a hard time conprehending why. It's kind of like, why in the world was Peter in Gryffindor.

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Presumably, her intelligence was her defining characteristic. Not that she *couldn't* be cunning or brave or loyal, but that her most prevalent characteristic was her cleverness.

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Originally Posted by SlthrngNbltyWrtnINnk

I mean, I think most of us gree that Helena bore a lot more Slytherin qualities than Ravenclaw.

The Bloody Baron seemed to be less Slytherinistic (It's a word okay!) than Helena, which I found odd. Maybe it was strictly because of his love for her. But what we have heard of Helena, I see almost no true Ravenclaw qualities, except that she was smart enough to not only steal, but also hide the diadem. So help me understand please.

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I think you have a twisted vision of what it means to be Slytherin, fed in large part by their misrepresentation in the books.

A Slytherin's defining characteristic isn't their sneakiness or their immorality or racisim/blood purity obsession or whatever you think it is. It's that they are cunning and ambitious. You could use that word to describe any number of people in the books. Andromeda Black-Tonks was a Slytherin, Barty Crouch Sr. may well have been a Slytherin, and in real life, you could use "cunning and ambitious" to describe a lot of people. Like Neil Armstrong, or Chuck Yeager. Just because they were brave to do what they did doesn't mean they weren't also ambitious to get there.

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Originally Posted by PurpleTree

I think that out of Gryffindor or Slytherin as her father, I think Slytherin would be the most likely pick, because that's where she would have gotten the "vainess" gene. I agree with that if Gryffindor was Helena's father, he probably would have married Rowena, unlike Slytherin.

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And what on earth makes you believe that Salazar would have refused to marry her or run off or whatever? It's possible he DID want to marry her, and she didn't agree!