Azkaban Prison

bnbv1 · #1 08-19-2007, 23:25

Is it possible that a wizard could cast a Patronus inside the cells of Azkaban to keep away the Dementors. Especially if they were trained in wandless magic?

megan_lupin · #2 08-20-2007, 23:53

Quote:

Is it possible that a wizard could cast a Patronus inside the cells of Azkaban to keep away the Dementors. Especially if they were trained in wandless magic?

Actually, I don't think it's possible at all, regardless of someone being trained in wandless magic. A Patronus is *very* advanced magic and one needs to be fully concentrating on it in order to conjure one. Being surrounded by Dementors in an environment like Azkaban would not only cause a wizard not to have that concentration, but also the fact that, in the major presence of Dementors, it would be *severely* difficult for them to even think up a happy memory to conjure a Patronus.

Also, wandless magic hasn't been seen a great deal in the books themselves (other than Animagi transformations), and I think that's more of a fanon thing ... I could be mistaken though, as I'm just speaking from memory. But even if wandless magic was possible, and a wizard was trained in it, I would think it would have to do with more minor spells. Something like a Patronus Charm would be far too advanced for magic without the channeling power of a wand, in my opinion.

But I think the biggest thing with this not really being possible is the fact of *what* the Patronus Charm needs to be cast successfully, and the fact that Azkaban -- a wizard without a wand, surrounded by Dementors that don't have their powers dimmed in any way, etc. -- would severely harm the attempt. A person wouldn't even, in my opinion, be able to think up a good memory and hold onto it long enough to conjure a Patronus, if such a thing was even possible without a wand.

~Megan

MrsRuebeusHagridDursley · #3 08-21-2007, 14:46

I have to say, I completely agree with Megan. Just here to add a couple of things.

I can't seem to find to exact page, but sometime in POA Lupin tells Harry that producing a Patronus Charm whit a lot of dementors around is extremely hard, harder than if there's only one or two. Azkaban had hundreds of dementors guarding it. With the despair a prisoner would feel just because they're being sent to the prison and the dementors, coupled with the despair dementors cause people to feel, the prisoners are in a horrible situation.

Harry is very adept at producing Patronuses, but in DH he is un-able to, because he's already feeling bad because of the battle. And there's only like ten or twenty dementors there. How on earth would an already unhappy person in Azkaban be able to produce a patronus against hundreds of dementors.

What you could try is you could have a person on the outside help your character with a Patronus charm.

Hope this helps you with your story!

~Morgan

cmwinters · #4 08-21-2007, 19:45

I doubt it. The prisoners are not allowed to have their wand, and a number of wizards cannot cast the Patronus at all, even with a wand. Remember how startled everyone was at Harry's hearing, and then later in his OWLs, because he was able to produce a coporeal Patronus? This wasn't just his peers that were in awe of him, but people many years senior to him.

As a prisoner, Sirius Black was able to transform to his Animagus form without a wand, but Sirius Black was an unusually powerful and talented wizard. Pettigrew, on the other hand, had to dive off after Lupin's dropped wand to transform himself back into a rat. So Sirius was able to find some measure of relief, but the ordinary wandless wizard would not. And the transfiguration seems like the kind of thing that you would almost need to have a wand for. I can see that an Animagus would generally need to master wandless magic though, because as an animal, you won't be able to wield the wand.

Remember, in HBP, Harry and Snape had an argument "over the best way to tackle a Dementor". I think Snape's method was to employ Occlumency, personally, but that is somewhat conjecture.

(And now, I may spork out my own eyes for speaking even remotely positively of Sirius Black . . . *shudder*)

Stubbornly_appeared · #5 08-21-2007, 19:58

I really don't think that's going to happen. In my humble opinion, controlled wandless magic that is more than Lumos or simple levitation is entirely fanon.

Not even considering the fact that there are tons of Dementors in Azkaban.

But, then again, who is it in Azkaban? Do they have an extremely happy memory? Could they somehow take a wand from a guard or have smuggled one in?