ANCIENT BRITISH Language Help

[darkveils5]

Hi! I am writing a Founders Era fic and the first chapter got rejected because of the way the dialogue is. The moderator says that the dialouge is too modern and should be more like the language of that time. If anyone could help me with this I would greatly appreciate it! Thanks,
Anna

[SiriuslyMental]

Obviously, words like "OK" & "yeah" would not have been used, neither would "nope". Think of films like King Arthur, Tristan + Isolde, even Lord of the Rings. The way they speak to one another would be far closer to the Founders' Era than anything I can think of off the top of my head.


Just so that you know, this would not be considered "Ancient English". The Founders were around 1000 years ago, which would have been the Middle Ages, meaning they would have spoken Middle English, which was actually in many forms, and resembles (in the use of certain characters, such as ð and þ, which is representative of "th", so þat is that) Icelandic in some ways, both stemming from Germanic languages.

[lain]

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php

I use this in Marauder-Era quite a bit to make sure phrases I’m using (or that writers are using) existed in the time frame at hand. Historical writers should also have this handy.


Vindictus Viridian posted this link in our Charms class. It should help!

[darkveils5]

Thanks very much! Yes, I've been thinking about maybe looking into King Arthur to get some ideas! Thanks again.

[Doctor Phoenix]

Obviously, you can't write exactly like they did a thousand years ago, because we don't speak Old English anymore. Old English is completely illegible to us nowadays. King Arthur and the Lord of the Rings are very good examples.
If you use "thee" and "thou," here are some basic grammar concepts:
Thee and thou are only used in the singular. That means one person. Rowena could say to Salazar, "Thou art insufferable," but if she were talking to Salazar and Godric, she'd say, "You are insufferable."
Thou and you are subjects; they do things. Example: Thou art killing me!
Thee and ye are objects; things are done to them. Example: I am killing thee!
Thy is the singular form of your...unless it comes before a vowel. Then it becomes thine. Thy book, thine apple. Thine also means yours.

[Poppet]

If you're still looking for help (and I realise that the last post was ages ago :)), then try looking at Shakespeare. Although he invented a load of words that we use today (like assassin, for example), he wrote his plays in Middle English. just make sure that they are updated ones, or reading them will be pointless for this excercie :rolleyes:

[CCCC]

If you're still looking for help (and I realise that the last post was ages ago :)), then try looking at Shakespeare. Although he invented a load of words that we use today (like assassin, for example), he wrote his plays in Middle English. just make sure that they are updated ones, or reading them will be pointless for this excercie :rolleyes:
Shakespeare was actually early modern rather than middle english.

If you were accurate no-one would understand it, so you're best of just using some well recognised stereotyped ideas of old english and running with that.

[TyrannoLaurus]

*butts in*

I agree with Tom about using modern language but being mindful of the way they would phrase things and perhaps using some of their terms. Last week I read a well acclaimed novel by Elizabeth Chadwick set in the 12thC and she used uber modern phrases (too modern in my opinion, but if she's published then I can get away with it too right?). They used Old English during that time (which is ever so slightly decipherable, if you ask me. I remember reading part of the Peterbrough Chronicle for my course this year and having a chuckle at how they spelt things). However, it would be even more different 1,000 years ago and I sometimes think it is not worth adding bits of the language and mixing it with modern terms, it just makes for awkward prose.

[kathyhermy123]

Hello!

i just wanted to add that you might want to check on the Lexicon the dates that different spells were created. If a spell was created, say, in 1895, then you know that the Founder's wouldn't have had it in their time, or possibly a less-well developed version.

Good luck!

~Kathy

[KCFantasy]

Another possible point of reference would be looking up old English legal documents from your time frame online. The wording would be very proper, but it might give you some ideas.

[Nymphadora]

Old english is virtually unusable, it had a completely different alphabet. The next best thing would be Middle English. To help I would do some research on the writer Chaucer who was of that era.

Example of Chaucer's writing:

Middle English - This frere bosteth that he knoweth helle, And God it woot, that it is litel wonder

Translation - This friar boasts that he knows hell, And God knows that it is little wonder

If thats too much, then I'd go with the Early Modern English style of Shakespear, which is a little easier to understand.

[Pinkcess of the Abyss]

Elizabethan Era is the way to go! The Founders were really early medieval and so like as has been said it would be impossible. I am very slowly beginning a fic in that era myself and so have done a lot of research on it.

First, have you ever heard an Irish man talk? They talk in circles sort of, embellishing things. Well, that is sort of how they might speak. The more words the better. Especially when wooing someone. You can have a lot of fun with the language too; insults are GREAT!

Thou art naught but a snivelling pile of festering pig dropping, now be gone with ye!

They also said things like, “For Sooth!” Or “By my Trowth!” meaning to swear on ones honour.

Here are a couple sites that I found helpful;
http://www.renfaire.com/Language/index.html
http://www.helenas.org/docs/Elizabethan_language.pdf

Alternatively you could just age your dialog. Go more Victorian era. For example,

“Miss Ravenclaw, what a delight to meet you! Such a handsome young lady, is she not? Ah, my apologies my dear, you two are not acquainted; may I introduce to you Mr Godric Gryffindor; you met his father, Mr Gryffindor, not a moment ago. Such a fine, fine gentleman he is; I suppose you are much proud of him!”

The dialects are not correct, but they do tend to add age to your writing to get the reader more in touch with the setting. (Sorry if it sounds a little awkward, I'm still learning to write in differant dialects myself.)

[ProfPosky]

Two Quick Questions:

when you say "previous owner" do you mean the one it was stolen from, or someone who owned it before the person it is stolen from


And when you say "The thief shall die hiding the secret of where it is" do you mean he will die, and his being dead hides the secret, or that in his attempt to hide the secret of where it is the attempt kills him?

May matter to translation.

PP

[Lyratearsx]

It shall be stolen by a young man who the previous owner shall know not. The thief shall die hiding the secret of where it is.

I find changing shall to shalt (sp?) helps. And you to thou.

~Lyra

[ProfPosky]

Alright, if you actually want Old English, it might go something like this, although I warn you this is very rough and don't look too closely at my verb tenses...

Byre wille begrafe - unbreme begrindar

Asterofe oferthelung dryghtgetreon gespecendlie

or, roughly

Youth will steal - unknown thief!
Die concealing great treasure that should be spoken of

(This thing is refusing to put spaces where I want them between oferthelung and dryghtgetreon and between concealing and great, but they should be there.)

This would be founder's era, and if it is what you want I will haul out the grammar books and spiff it up interms of word endings and tenses. I've already made it sound vaguely Anglo-Saxon by use of alliteration and an imitation of half lines - I paid no particular attention to the stresses.

Now if what you REALLY wanted was Early Modern English, which would be around Shakespeare's time, that is another story...

ProfPosky

[indigo_mouse]

I am writing a Founder's fiction as well, but I hadn't thought of couching it in anything other than a more formal version of modern English, and leaving out modern slang and concepts (for example, "guilt trip").

I tend to think that attempting Shakespearian English would make it sound affected, and I would beyond all doubt mangle the usage. I was thinking along the lines of the language used by Mary Stewart in "The Crystal Cave", which is set in Arthurian times. The characters in the novel would really be speaking in Latin and other dialects that I am not nearly educated enough to name.

Do you think that that would be sufficiently "non-Modern"?

[moonstone.silver]

Sorry, I accidentally deleted my message :o Here's the prophecy again:

It shall be stolen by a young man who the previous owner shall know not. The thief shall die hiding the secret of where it is.

Thanks, Lyra and ProfPosky :)

ProfPosky - I want Early Modern English - around Shakespeare's time, as you said :)

Also, to make it clearer, the previous owner doesn't know the thief. So the unknown thief steals the mysterious object which I do not want anyone to know :p
"The thief shall die hiding the secret..." - that means that some other unknown person shall kill the thief, because the thief is not telling him the secret of where 'it' is.

Phew, there are a lot of unknown people, aren't there? Well, don't worry. I know the whole plot (obviously, since I created it :rolleyes: )

Thanks a lot, people! :D


Lurve and huggles,

Munno the Lamoe.