Centaurs

[OliveOil_Med]

Centaurs are going to be playing a fairly big role in the upcoming chapter of one of my stories, so I have a few questions that I need cleared up on the subject of the centaurs that reside in the forests around Hogwarts.

Where do the centaur names in the Harry Potter books come from? Has anyone noticed any naming patterns that J.K. has been using in her books?

Does anyone have any theories as to how the Hogwarts centaurs even got there? I believed the originated in Greece, am I right?

I'm sure I will think of more questions to add later, but for now, I will settle for these.

[Tim the Enchanter]

Centaurs are going to be playing a fairly big role in the upcoming chapter of one of my stories, so I have a few questions that I need cleared up on the subject of the centaurs that reside in the forests around Hogwarts.

Where do the centaur names in the Harry Potter books come from? Has anyone noticed any naming patterns that J.K. has been using in her books?

Does anyone have any theories as to how the Hogwarts centaurs even got there? I believed the originated in Greece, am I right?

I'm sure I will think of more questions to add later, but for now, I will settle for these.

I don't really see any regular naming convention for centaurs. 'Firenze' is Italian for Florence, Bane's name simply refers to a scourge or annoyance or whatever, Ronan is an Irish Celtic name, and Magorian doesn't seem to mean anything.

So, for centaur names, pick whatever you want, because in canon there are no naming patterns.

As for how the centaurs got from Greece to Britain, there could be any number of explanations. Horses can swim, so centaurs should be able to do the same. But centaurs have things called arms and opposable thumbs, so they could have possibly made some boats to get across the Channel to the island. Or maybe centaurs from the continent crossed the Channel a few tens of thousands of years ago during the Pleistocene, when Britain was still connected to the continent.

Tim the Enchanter

[OliveOil_Med]

Hmm, but all the different names do make me wonder certain things. With all these different origins for their names, where are they learning them from? If they had old Greek names, that would be easier to understand, but where are they learning all these different names from?

[Tim the Enchanter]

Hmm, but all the different names do make me wonder certain things. With all these different origins for their names, where are they learning them from? If they had old Greek names, that would be easier to understand, but where are they learning all these different names from?

Rowling didn't really think about that when assigning names, probably. Personally, I wouldn't worry to much about this and just make up whatever names strike your fancy.

Also, why should centaurs have Greek names? Just because their species originated there, doesn't mean the centaurs in Britain speak Greek, or have Greek names. That would be like saying all humans should speak some African language just because our species originated there.

Tim the Enchanter

[OliveOil_Med]

What do you think could be some limits in nationalities of a centaur's name. I remember once seeing a character thread for a centaur that had a Japanese name. I don't mean just a name that the author thought they had made up and then just later turned out to be a Japanese name; both the author and the character knew that their name was Japanese in origin. This, I felt, was just a little to farfetched to believe.

What do you feel like some limitations there could be in naming a centaur?

[Inverarity]

What do you feel like some limitations there could be in naming a centaur?

I'd say "Mr. Ed" and "Seabiscuit" are out.

Seriously, Rowling seemed to choose names that were vaguely imposing and/or ominous. Since Centaurs, as far as we know, don't have their own language, apparently they speak the local human tongue, which means in Britain they'll pick vaguely English names.

It's also possible they do have their own language, and "Firenze," "Bane," "Magorian," etc., are just English names they chose as approximations of their Centaur names.

It doesn't seem likely a Centaur in Britain would have a Japanese name unless for some reason his parents were fond of Japanese culture. (And I can't really see Centaurs becoming otaku.) But they might easily choose names from various European languages -- they've been around for a long time, so they are certainly aware of English, Celtic, French, Italian, Greek, etc.

[OliveOil_Med]

Maybe another theory to the different nationalities of centaur names is that as they traveled, they slowly picked up the languages of the nations they traveled through, and, along with it, the names. Maybe the forign names are names taken from centaurs in previous generations who were born in the country whose nationality their name comes from. We know what a fan J.K. is of naming people after other people.

Just another theory. But I feel like names that come from countries that can't be walked to would be out of line in terms of beleivability.

[Inverarity]

Just another theory. But I feel like names that come from countries that can't be walked to would be out of line in terms of beleivability.

That assumes that Centaurs don't know anything about any lands they haven't personally visited. We know from the books that they are, in fact, a knowledgeable race (or at least they claim they are). It's not too far-fetched to believe that they're actually literate and can read books.

Also, as has been pointed out, Centaurs are originally Greek, or at least Centaur legends are. It's likely that they're not native to the British Isles, which means they didn't walk there, which means somehow or other, they've traveled in the past. Whether they are like giants, who've apparently crossed the Channel in recent history, or as Tim suggests, British Centaurs came across during the last ice age, they certainly know about other places.

[OliveOil_Med]

I suppose I tend to think of the centaurs being somewhat akin to the origins of the Native Americans.

You know, the originally came from continental Russia, crossed over the Bering Strait while it was still frozen and gradually just kept on moving further and further south until they eventually made up the Native American nations as we know them today.

Unless that's just another lie my history teachers told me. I have been told a lot over the years.

[Tim the Enchanter]

I suppose I tend to think of the centaurs being somewhat akin to the origins of the Native Americans.

You know, the originally came from continental Russia, crossed over the Bering Strait while it was still frozen and gradually just kept on moving further and further south until they eventually made up the Native American nations as we know them today.

Unless that's just another lie my history teachers told me. I have been told a lot over the years.

It's all lies, Molly! LIES! It was the Freemasons and Aliens who transported the Indians to the Americas, not some stupid Bering Strait land bridge!

But back to centaurs and such, I hate to imagine how the Greek Ministry of Magic (or whatever they would call it there) keeps track of all its homicidal monsters. They must really have their plates full, keeping chimeras and manticores and all sorts of lovely things in check.

Tim the Enchanter

[OliveOil_Med]

And lets also not forget cyclopses, harpies, minatars, gorgons, sirens, and a whole bunch of other fun creatures that cold probably be living in Greece. There are probably even a lot more that I am just not thinking of right now.

It's a wonder the Greek people are even alive in J.K.'s world!

[Inverarity]

And lets also not forget cyclopses, harpies, minatars, gorgons, sirens, and a whole bunch of other fun creatures that cold probably be living in Greece. There are probably even a lot more that I am just not thinking of right now.

It's a wonder the Greek people are even alive in J.K.'s world!


The Greeks aren't the only ones who had a slew of dangerous magical beasts in their myths. Pretty much everyone did -- we're just most familiar with Greek myths because Greek and Roman culture was what got passed down through the centuries as part of classical learning in the West.

Also, remember that even in the Greek legends, a lot of those creatures didn't live in Greece. They were encountered by Odysseus or other heroes, on their journeys throughout the Mediterranean.

[Tim the Enchanter]

The Greeks aren't the only ones who had a slew of dangerous magical beasts in their myths. Pretty much everyone did -- we're just most familiar with Greek myths because Greek and Roman culture was what got passed down through the centuries as part of classical learning in the West.

Also, remember that even in the Greek legends, a lot of those creatures didn't live in Greece. They were encountered by Odysseus or other heroes, on their journeys throughout the Mediterranean.

Quite right - I hadn't considered that. Also, what the ancient Greeks considered to be "Greece" naturally doesn't correspond to the modern political map. So I suppose it might actually be the Turks who have to contend with the chimeras, as they lived in Lycia, on the southwest coast.

Speaking of Turks and Greeks, do you see any bits of wizarding western Anatolia as being culturally Greek, rather than Turkish? Though all the Muggle-borns in the area would probably be Turks, the old Pure-blood families going back hundreds of years should be Greek. If that is the case, how do you think the Greek and Turkish Ministries of Magic have drawn their boundaries?

Tim the Enchanter

[OliveOil_Med]

Shifting off the topic of names, I have another question about centaurs.

Do centaurs age at the same rate as humas, do you think, or do you think they ages faster, more on par with horses? I know there is really no canon evidence to support this either way, but that has never stopped us from trying to fugure it out ourselves before. So what do you guys all think?

[Tim the Enchanter]

Shifting off the topic of names, I have another question about centaurs.

Do centaurs age at the same rate as humas, do you think, or do you think they ages faster, more on par with horses? I know there is really no canon evidence to support this either way, but that has never stopped us from trying to fugure it out ourselves before. So what do you guys all think?

Well, in Greek myth, centaurs were incredibly violent, untamed creatures who loved to raid villages, carry off human woman, and fight humans or each other. This does not suggest long life expectancies.

However, one centaur, Chiron, was very wise astrologer and oracle, and he taught many Greek heroes like Achilles and Heracles. Chiron was immortal so he lived a pretty long time before he willingly gave up his immortality.

Centaurs in the wizarding world seem to be more in the vein of Chiron, than the standard centaur in Greek myth. Though they wouldn't be immortal, I think they might live a long time, to at least old human age.

Tim the Enchanter

[sorrow_of_severus]

How Centaurs Got to the Forbidden Forest
Perhaps centaurs lived in various places, not just Greece. I don't know this for certain, but I would think that ancient Greece was more densely settled that ancient Britain. Since we've seen that centaurs like to live deep in the forest, Britain's lesser population make it less likely that people would run into centaurs (and live to tell the tale, as well).

Another explanation is that magic seems to draw magical creatures. For example, do you see garden gnomes in Muggle gardens? No. It could be that Muggles are just to oblivious to notice them, but you'd think the are lawn-care fanatics out there like Uncle Vernon might notice if suddenly there were mysterious burrows in his immaculately-manicured lawn. Perhaps the large amount of magic in the air of Great Britain's only wizarding school and Great Britain's only all-wizarding village made the Forbidden Forest an extremely desirable place for centaurs to live, enough to make them migrate there.

A third possibility is that centaurs were somehow imported to the Forbidden Forest by people from Hogwarts, just like Grawp and acromantulas were. Centaurs are so intelligent, organized, and violent that I'm not sure how it would be done, but it's a possibility.

Naming Centaurs
An explanation for the wide variety of names could be that centaurs seem comparable in intelligence and worldliness to humans. If humans like to give their children exotic names, why can't centaurs?

I think naming centaurs a non-European sound name would be stretching it. Certainly impossible for a centaur name sounds like it could be given to a horse or other animal. Centaurs have more self-respect than that.

[indigo_mouse]

Centaurs are also part of Roman mythology, Ovid mentions them. Myths of their origins include men mating with horses, men mating with a cloud made in the image of a goddess and similarly unlikely scenarios.

There are centaurs depicted in Pictish carvings in Scotland in the 8th to 9th centuries - probably derived from classic sources.

So with that in mind, I venture a theory that the centaurs in the Forbidden Forest traveled with the Roman legions (the more magical units of cavalry) and came to Britain when it was a province of the Roman Empire.

[OliveOil_Med]

Now I am going to be needing some help from the horse-lovers on the site. Now I have begun thinking about the colors of centaurs.

I feel like there probably wouldn't be any painted centaurs, since this is a coloring that has seemed almost exclusive in American breeds, but what would be some possible colorings for centaurs which come from Europe?

Maybe something that would be useful is to know what are the colorings in many European breeds and to know what colorings you probably wouldn't ever see in European horses.

[Sapphire at Dawn]

Wee hee! A horse related question! Well, in the UK there are nine native breeds, and they are usually the five common colours; bay, black, grey, chesnut and brown, but you do get other colours.

I don't think it's so much the colours than the breeds, though. There are loads of piebald and skewbald (paint) cobs and welsh ponies, though I really couldnt see this for a centaur. JKR has palominos and roans, so I think that you could probably include liver chestnuts (a rich brown colour), duns (tan coloured body and black legs, mane and tail) and various dapples.

There are some colours that are specific to breeds that come from certain places, like a flaxen colour only seen on a breed from Scandinavia, and lepoard spotted colour from an Eastern European breed. Suffolk Punches (from England) are only ever chestnut, and Lipizzana and Andalusian horses (from Spain) are grey.

I can't think of anything else at the moment, I hope that helps a bit.

Sarah x