How Hogwarts would Change

[Equinox Chick]

I've been thinking about Next-Gen fics and reading up on some characterisation threads, and am interested in Sorting after the Trio have left.

JK told us that things changed at Hogwarts and Slytherin was diluted (I think that's her phrase) so they weren't the EVIL!HOUSE any longer.

What I'm wondering is how they managed to change the attutudes of each House (Gryffindor are just as prejudiced against Slytherin after all) when they still used the same Hat for Sorting. The hat contains the brains of the Founders, so wouldn't it still Sort the way it has for hundreds of years?

Do you think the Hogwarts Professors modified the Hat in some way, or was there just a change in curriculum or something so there was more inter-House unity?

I know a lot of you write Next Gen, so any advice on how you think Hogwarts changed would be very useful.

Thank you

Carole

[Inverarity]

Well, the Sorting Hat selects students according to what the Founders wanted in their respective houses. Slytherin wanted students who were ambitious, cunning, and pure-blooded. A lot of writers who'd like to pretend that pureblood prejudice was something that only came along afterwards ignore that part, but it's made explicit several times in the books that Salazar Slytherin was opposed to Mudbloods coming to Hogwarts (as if building the Chamber wasn't proof enough).

This does make one wonder, though, why the Hat then put non-purebloods like Tom Riddle and Severus Snape in Hogwarts.

One answer is that the Hat doesn't necessarily know everyone's blood status. It can look inside a student's head, and seems to be able to "hear" what the person is thinking, but that doesn't mean it's truly telepathic and is able to instantly browse through each child's entire life history in the few moments it's sitting on his or her head. So maybe when it doesn't know for sure whether or not someone is a pureblood, it goes by other attributes; Snape and Riddle, by their attitudes, probably convinced it that they were pureblood, or close enough, and had the other attitudes Slytherin wanted.

Another answer is that the Hat has some autonomy. We know that it wanted House unity -- the Hat itself mused that perhaps it was doing a disservice by Sorting students. So while it knows that Slytherin was a pureblood fanatic, Slytherin has been dead for a thousand years, and it's free to choose based on what it thinks is best for each house.

I don't think the teachers would change the Hat, or force it to start putting more non-purebloods in Slytherin. Rather, I think they would try to eradicate pureblood prejudice, and reduce the interhouse animosity. Hopefully they'll do a better job than they did in the series. Dumbledore may have been a great wizard, but he did diddly-squat while watching three generations of Death Eaters rising right under his nose. :rolleyes: What Hogwarts really needs is classes in morals and ethics, messages about unity and tolerance, etc. The sort of thing most schools do today (with varying effectiveness).

The attitude of pureblood supremacy is what needs to be diluted, not the purebloods themselves. Also, it will be pretty important to try to reduce anti-Slytherin prejudice as well. Although Slytherins in the books were pretty nasty, one can hardly blame them -- they arrive at school and find out that the other three houses all regard them as evil. If the new batch of Slytherins arrives at Hogwarts post-war and finds everyone blaming them for Voldemort and still treating them like Death Eaters-in-training, then house relations aren't likely to improve.

Basically, it will take a lot more work to fix things than just changing how Sorting works.

[Fly to Dawn]

One random idea I had: how about Sorting the students not when they join the school, but a year after they join? (i.e. as they enter their second year.) It would at least ensure that the kids give others a chance instead of going: 'Oh no! He's gone into Slytherin! He must be evil! Et cetera!'

[Sainyn Swiftfoot]

One random idea I had: how about Sorting the students not when they join the school, but a year after they join? (i.e. as they enter their second year.) It would at least ensure that the kids give others a chance instead of going: 'Oh no! He's gone into Slytherin! He must be evil! Et cetera!'

While this is a very original, and definitely very interesting idea, I think we have to keep in mind the mindset of the wizarding world. People don't seem to embrace change with widespread hands, and cling desperately to their old-fashioned ideas and antique mannerisms.

Dumbledore was definitely different, and he had the will to change things-- he let a werewolf study in his school, he let the same werewolf work in his school, and did a whole lot of other things... which I can't recall right now. But he did things, because he was Dumbledore. Now, on the other hand, a person such as McGonagall? I really can't see her being quite that radical, and working hard against the overwhelming opinions of the wizarding world to change something that is a legend-- the Sorting.

[Equinox Chick]

One thing I saw in another fic (and this relates to Inverarity's curriculum change) is that they taught Modern History of Magic. Obviously Binns wasn't going to do that, but the Carrows had exorcised him, (in this fic) so Flitwick (who was headmaster) brought in another teacher who would teach the recent stuff, so it was relevent. I don't know about other countries but in the UK we certainly learn about twentieth century events as well as all the kings and queens of Britain.

Another thing I wondered was how about making Muggle Studies compulsory ? The Carrows did it, and I imagine the following Hogwarts year would have to have some radical deprogramming option going on for all those that went through that year under Alecto.

Carole

[Miss Spelt]

Well... this isn't a big change, but what if the common rooms were moved? I mean, Slytherins would seem less 'evil' if they didn't lurk in a dank, dark, underground dungeon for 7years. And the Ravenclaws might mingle more if they came down from the lofty perch that is their tower...

[starkllr]

One thing that could help ease inter-House tensions post DH would be the Heads of the Houses getting more involved in the day to day lives. Spending more time in the COmmon Room, eating at the House table occasionally instead of the staff table, etc.

In the books, we very rarely see McGonagall doing much in her role as Head of Gryffindor other than punishing students (and dealing with the Quidditch team, of course!). Having Heads make a concerted effort to ease tensions and fight stereotypes could go a long way towards solving the problem.

[Karaley Dargen]

One thing that could help ease inter-House tensions post DH would be the Heads of the Houses getting more involved in the day to day lives. Spending more time in the COmmon Room, eating at the House table occasionally instead of the staff table, etc.

In the books, we very rarely see McGonagall doing much in her role as Head of Gryffindor other than punishing students (and dealing with the Quidditch team, of course!). Having Heads make a concerted effort to ease tensions and fight stereotypes could go a long way towards solving the problem.

But eek, would you WANT McGonagall in the Common Room while you're trying to complain about your homework load and work on some rule-breaking? Or would you want her peering over the rim of her glasses at you during breakfast, inquiring about whether you'd done your homework?

Actually I think parties like Slughorn's might be carried on with even after he left. There wasn't much inter-house tension in the Slug-Club, they were all the same elite :p


Also, I think Muggle Studies as a compulsory subject isn't a bad idea. They could teach how Muggles aren't so different from Wizards, and things like that. That would definitely help fight prejudices...

[OliveOil_Med]

But I think something very important to consider when you are creating a future Hogwarts is who is going to be the teaching staff. I always get secretly annoyed when I see stories where McGonagall is still the headmistress by the time Albus and Rose begin attending Hogwarts. In interviews, J.K. has repeatedly mentioned that by the time these two begin attending school, McGonagall has retired because she is 'getting on a bit'. I don't think it is unreasonable to think she might still be there when Teddy begins, but I don't think she would have stayed through his entire education.

As for potential heamasters, Flitwick and Sprout would certainly be possible candidates. We can see from Hogwarts history that headmasters most often start out as teachers, so it seems quite likely that the future headmaster would be one of the former teachers.

Then we also need to consider who is being replace. We would certainly need a new teacher to replace the new headmaster. I also think that Slughorn would have certainly retired by this point in time, so we would certainly need a new Potions teacher. It is mentioned that Hagrid is still at Hogwarts, though we don't know for certain if he is still teaching or if he is 'getting on' as well.

We don't know very much about most of the elective teachers, so they are more or less OCs, and it is completely up to you with what to do with them.

[Inverarity]

I always get secretly annoyed when I see stories where McGonagall is still the headmistress by the time Albus and Rose begin attending Hogwarts. In interviews, J.K. has repeatedly mentioned that by the time these two begin attending school, McGonagall has retired because she is 'getting on a bit'.

She contradicted herself in Tales of Beedle the Bard, which states that McGonagall did indeed become Headmistress.

[Equinox Chick]

She contradicted herself in Tales of Beedle the Bard, which states that McGonagall did indeed become Headmistress.

Not exactly. She said McGonagall wasn't headmistress in 2017, but Beedle the Bard is earlier - 2008 - so McGonagall can be Headmistress without it being classed as a contradiction. She could have retired in 2015 when she was 90.

Molly- Mmm, I dislike the same teachers being there all the time as well as all the Trio's friends having children at the same time. How likely is it that Rose and Albus would go to school with a Thomas child, a Finnegan child and a Longbottom.

Carole

[OliveOil_Med]

How likely is it that Rose and Albus would go to school with a Thomas child, a Finnegan child and a Longbottom.
I know! One certainly seems like it could be a possibility, but more than that is just too much of a stretch.

[gene24]

Even though the Sorting Hat was created from the minds of the Founders, I always imagined it to still be able to adapt and to think for itself. It did, after all, change the Sorting Hat Song every year according to what was happening currently, so it would have to be able to absorb the current news somehow. Even if the teachers didn't do something directly to the hat, it would recognize the change in mood (and would surely know that Voldemort was defeated).

But on the other hand, even though Gryffindor and Slytherin are equally prejudiced, I think that would change among all the houses after the Second War. I think they would both (but gradually) start to trust each other more and more, and even though they may not be the best of friends, I think they would have a cordial relationship at the very least.

So, I guess what I'm saying is, there would be a change in the hat and a change in the people, so between the two, the relationship between the houses would change and become friendlier. I don't think it would be one or the other.

[OliveOil_Med]

Okay, let's talk about other possible changes in some of the aspects of Hogwarts. Something that I did see in another fic was that by the time Albus and Rose began attending was that they had begun doing a baggage check on all the students' trunks. I feel like this is a very believable change in Hogwarts, and very in parallell with the rest of the world.

What are some other possible changes you think could have occured at Hogwarts, whether they be things yu read in another story or just things in your own imagination.

[Inverarity]

Okay, let's talk about other possible changes in some of the aspects of Hogwarts. Something that I did see in another fic was that by the time Albus and Rose began attending was that they had begun doing a baggage check on all the students' trunks. I feel like this is a very believable change in Hogwarts, and very in parallell with the rest of the world.

What are some other possible changes you think could have occured at Hogwarts, whether they be things yu read in another story or just things in your own imagination.

A baggage check, more diligent bed checks, more safeguards to prevent students from wandering around where they shouldn't, those would all be reasonable and sane things to do. Of course, they'd also severely limit the adventures that children could have at Hogwarts, which is why Rowling had the staff being so negligent in the books.

(Seriously, you're going to leave some gigantic three-headed dog chained up in a corridor, and the only precautions you take against it eating someone is to tell the students, "Don't go down there"?)

I think it's likely that they'd have to bow to the increasing influence of Muggle culture. In the books, it seems Muggle-borns just dive into the wizarding world and leave their Muggle lives behind. Kids today are thoroughly attached to their cell phones, their iPods, their Wiis, their favorite entertainers, etc., by age eleven. Even learning they are wizards and coming to a magical school isn't going to make them forget all that. They're going to want to stay connected to the Muggle world. Even if magic prevents electronics from working (I don't see Hogwarts ever getting Internet access), the kids are still going to bring things from home and talk about the Muggle world. Without purebloods suppressing that, it's inevitable, and it's also inevitable that some of these things will interest wizarding children, and not just in the Arthur Weasley "Oh, isn't that cute? Muggles play with rubber ducks" sort of way.

Others have mentioned the possibility of Muggle Studies becoming mandatory. I think that's likely; someone is going to figure out that the wizarding world can't stay secret forever. And Muggle Studies should involve more than just learning how Muggles dress and what they eat; wizards really should know a little more about Muggle arts and sciences. I think a lot of the Muggle-borns' parents, at least, will be unhappy if their kids finish seven years of schooling at Hogwarts and still have no more than a fifth grade education in math, science, history, and language.

I also think there would be (or should be) a concerted effort to reduce house rivalries and encourage interhouse cooperation. More double classes, more events mixing members of different houses together rather than making everything a competition, etc. They'd need to change the culture of the school, which includes encouraging teachers to stop encouraging the houses to be at each other's throats.

Also, Hogwarts teachers are almost uniformly terrible at pedagogy. They really should learn more effective teaching methods, and institute some safety rules, as well as guidelines on appropriate behavior. In a Muggle school, Hagrid would be a lawsuit waiting to happen, and Snape would wind up in jail.

[OliveOil_Med]

Ah, good old poor parential supervision! How would we have ever had any of our great childhood adventures without it?

Also, I think wizarding children, at least, might have taken more of an interest in Muggle toys, at least. I mean, I could understand the wizarding culture being without any sort up Muggle influence in the past, but when the kids started showing up to school with Game Boys, I-pods, I-phones, cellphone and the like, I feel like 'bless them' might turn into 'I want one'!

[Northumbrian]

As for potential heamasters, Flitwick and Sprout would certainly be possible candidates.

if Pomona Sprout gets the job, then that creates two vacancies.

The School will need a new Herbology Professor ;)

and a new Head of Hufflepuff.

-N-

[Equinox Chick]

Kids today are thoroughly attached to their cell phones, their iPods, their Wiis, their favorite entertainers, etc., by age eleven. Even learning they are wizards and coming to a magical school isn't going to make them forget all that.

Hmm, being attached to electronic devices isn't confined to modern day though. Marauder era kids listened to crackly transistor radios - probably more obsessively than modern day because they didn't have computer games - As a child of the eighties I watched copious amounts of TV and plugged myself into my Walkman all day and every day. If Lily can get through her days without listening to Glam Rock all day, then the Next Gen kids will just have to put up with it.

I think an author would still have to take into account the effect magic has on electronic devices, otherwise your Next Gen Hogwarts will turn into Wild Child or St Trinians (the new version)

I think a lot of the Muggle-borns' parents, at least, will be unhappy if their kids finish seven years of schooling at Hogwarts and still have no more than a fifth grade education in math, science, history, and language.

Mmm, I like this idea, perhaps they could teach them more Muggle type subjects - languages would be helpful ... but they wouldn't really need science (chemistry particularly) if they had Potions.

Also Muggle-born's parents might not approve of the syllabus, but what in reality could they actually do about it?

Something that I did see in another fic was that by the time Albus and Rose began attending was that they had begun doing a baggage check on all the students' trunks.
Why though? I'm not disagreeing, but I'm wondering what reason you gave for searching their trunks. Was it a drugs check? Bomb check? I think Flich had already established some sort of filter system at Hogwarts (doesn't he check all the students when they go to Hogwarts?) and the Weasleys manage to get their products sent through the mail by disguising Love Potions as innocuous products.

if Pomona Sprout gets the job, then that creates two vacancies.

The School will need a new Herbology Professor

and a new Head of Hufflepuff.

Well, Herbology Prof is Neville ... but he wouldn't be the head of Hufflepuff. Actually, I presume the Head of House has to live in, and as Neville lives above the Leaky Cauldron with Hannah, I can't see him being Head of Gryffindor either. Basically you could have any of the teachers as HoH as long as you make out that they were Hufflepuffs. Perhaps Justin Ffitch-Fletchly becomes the new Muggle Studies teacher and HoH? But then that could be almost as bad as having all the Trio's generation of friends having children in the same year as Albus and Rose. - *sigh*.


Carole

[minnabird]

This is such a fascinating question!

I think that by the time the Next Gen got to school, a teacher who was new shortly after Harry's era might have been enough a part of the school community to ascend to the headmaster's office after a former headmaster/mistress retired (say, McGonagall). I think, more than anything, Hogwarts needs a catalyst for change. Dumbledore was an amazing headmaster, but did he ever really change anything in the way the school runs? While many might be dismayed to see changes to the formerly unchanging Hogwarts, they would also need to realize that as many good wizards as it turned out it also fostered an entire evil movement. I agree with the idea about required Muggle Studies, and I love the idea of a new History of Magic teacher. Binns strikes me as the absolute worst kind of history teacher - he's just repeating dry facts he's learned by rote, and which are no use to his bored students. The best history classes I've had are ones where we learned how things worked, cause and effect, that kind of thing. That plus learning some modern history could be very helpful. Stressing the evils of prejudice could no doubt do them all good. And having more of an emphasis on morals in general in their school life could also be good for the kids.

I also like the idea of fostering house unity by urging less competition, but then how else are they to have Quidditch? There aren't really any other schools close enough to play. Maybe have several teams with a mix of players from all different houses? Bit of a conundrum there.

As for the electronic devices, I wouldn't be at all surprised if some enterprising Muggleborn found ways to make wizarding versions of popular Muggle items (get more variety than your standard wizard!radio). The wizarding world may be leery of the Muggle world, but it could learn a lot from its technological advances.