Polyjuice Question

[OliveOil_Med]

I just had the oddest pondering about Polyjuice, and I wanted to gather some perspective from the other members of the MNFF coomunity.

If a person were to collect hair from someone who was pregnant and put it into a Polyjuice Potion, once transformed, would the transformed wizard take on the form of a pregnant woman as well? What do you guys think?

[Karaley Dargen]

No answer but a related question that came to my mind some days ago. If – never mind the circumstances, I have no idea how it actually would happen –*a man was turned into a woman using polyjuice potion and slept with a man (and got pregnant), kept drinking polyjuice potion regularly for the next few weeks –*and then stopped, what would happen?

[OliveOil_Med]

To Karaley Dargen's question, I don't really think so. Just because of the sheer number of potions that would be necessary to carry a person through for nine months. They wouldn't be able to go back to their male forms for even a moment, and remember how much effort it takes to make a Polyjuice Potion.

Also, remember that the effects only last for a few hours with what we have seen from the books. The person taking the potion would also never be able to get a full nights sleep. They would go insane and probably die before they were even a month in.

But back to my question, any imput?

[Karaley Dargen]

Ah but remember Moody. He lasted almost a whole school year, and I suppose he would have to take it at night in case a ghost popped in through the wall or there was an emergency and someone rushed into his room.

[Equinox Chick]

Molly's question - I don't think the person would actually carry a baby inside them, but they'd look pregnant. They're not taking PJ potion made with the baby's hair after all.

Kara - I have no idea ... scary thought, though. I can't get my head round it, but I'll try. :D I think as soon as there's the slightest change back into a man, then the baby could disappear. I think they could get pregnant, after all Hermione complained about Harry's eyesight and I presume both her and Fleur grew *coughmaleappendagescough* as well.

Carole

[Karaley Dargen]

I'm sure they'd definitely look pregnant – I doubt they'd actually get pregnant, I mean imagine that, you could clone people like that – take a hair of a woman who is just about to go into labour, and give the potion to a bunch of people –*and you'd get tons of identical babies o__O

But since the pregnancy hormones go everywhere, I think it has to affect the outcome of the potion.



Maybe if you drink the potion and then get pregnant you get stuck –*like Hermione when she took the animal hair. I wish I had Most Potent Potions... I'll never get the slip for the Restricted Section though –*damn Madam Pince!

[OliveOil_Med]

I never thought this would be made into such a long discussion.

What do the rest of you think in terms of my pregnancy questions? Would a person have to collect old hairs to keep from looking pregnant themselves? Do you think glamours could be used to hide the pregnancy bump, but then it would still technically be there.

On a related topic, how far do you think glamours could go in a disguise? Could they be used to create a full-body disguise? It has always been my pet theory is that glamours can be used as disguises, but they can only fool the eyes. Meaning you keep your same voice, but also, you remain as tall and short as you are originally. So if you were to take the form of a person much taller than you are, and someone tried to throw a book at your head, it would just pass right through.

Of course, then you are pretty much found out.

[TheCursedQuill]

Isn't glamour faerie magic? Or can wizard's use it too?

But anyways, the questions. I agree with the other that when a person takes a hair from a pregnant woman, they would only appear pregnant and not actually be pregnant. Kara's question is more difficult though. For some reason I think that the potion wouldn't change the insides of you. So you could appear to have female parts, but wouldn't be capable to carry a baby. I can't think of why I would think this, but it seems easier if the potion didn't change your insides too. I mean, everyone has different organs really, I'm not into biology or anything, but I'm sure not two people have the exact same anything. SO, it would be difficult for the potion to change EVERYTHING about a person. Maybe it only changes the outside appearance?
Editting this part because I remembered my point on why this idea could fail. When Harry drank the polyjuice potion he didn't need his glasses anymore. His eyesight changed and that's not really one's outside appearance but the working's behind your eyes. So. I'm at a lost and helped no one.

Back to glamours, my understanding of it (which is what I read from Faerie novels -yay Holly Black!-) is that it can only disguise what is already there, and will disappear over time. Your theory makes sense; if you make yourself taller and someone throws something at you, it would pass right through, because that part that you have now added onto youself, doesn't actually exsist. But, if you go even deeper into the matter, I think it would also depend on how powerful the glamour is. Stronger glamour might be able to create something that was solid.

Another little edit. 200th post =D

[OliveOil_Med]

Well, I know I saw glamours on The Craft (I know, not HP canon, but who doesn't take a bit of information from external sources), and witches were using them. The way they described it as was 'a illusion so real as to fool an onlooking, is one of the oldest forms of magic there is'.

And I would think that for all the powers witches and wizards have in the Potterverse, casting a visual illusion on themselves is certainly within the realm of possibility.

[hestiajones]

I could be wrong, but I feel that if a person were to take Polyjuice Potion containing the hair of a pregnant woman, the drinker would not look pregnant. My reasoning is that - pregnancy is actually a (nine-month-long) temporary situation. When Hermione and Fluer took that potion and had Harry's poor eye-sight, it was because his condition was more or less permanent. In order to look pregnant, the person would have to use a charm.


As for Kara's question - wow - that one was tough, But following my earlier reasoning, I think the pregnancy might go away as soon as he stopped taking the potion as he would no longer have the woman's body and the child might be lost.


~ Just my two cents. :)

[Karaley Dargen]

It's good thinking, but I'm not sure if the "temporary condition" reasoning works. When you think about it, for example your body fat is a temporary condition too, because it changes quickly when you eat or exercise – or on an even more basic level, your haircut is a very temporary condition, yet you get the same haircut as the person whose polyjuice you drank. So at least they'd have to look pregnant –*I think.

[OliveOil_Med]

I could be wrong, but I feel that if a person were to take Polyjuice Potion containing the hair of a pregnant woman, the drinker would not look pregnant. My reasoning is that - pregnancy is actually a (nine-month-long) temporary situation. When Hermione and Fluer took that potion and had Harry's poor eye-sight, it was because his condition was more or less permanent. In order to look pregnant, the person would have to use a charm.
Excellent! I think I just solved my plot dilemma for my story. Thank you, hestiajones!

Anymore thoughts on the subject of glamours?

[the opaleye]

This is so interesting :eek:

I could be wrong, but I feel that if a person were to take Polyjuice Potion containing the hair of a pregnant woman, the drinker would not look pregnant. My reasoning is that - pregnancy is actually a (nine-month-long) temporary situation. When Hermione and Fluer took that potion and had Harry's poor eye-sight, it was because his condition was more or less permanent. In order to look pregnant, the person would have to use a charm.

Hm, I'm going to disagree slightly. If you took the hair of the pregnant woman then I think you would look like her as she looked when you took the hair from her. So, if you took her hairs at different times eg. 3 months, 6 months, then if you used the 3 month hair then you would look like she did at 3 months pregnant whereas if you used the 6 month hair then you would look like she did at 6 months pregnant. Make sense?

The thing is, bad eyesight often changes. I get different lenses for my glasses about every two or three years. So when Hermione and Fleur took the Polyjuice, they had Harry's degree of bad eyesight at that exact point in time when he gave them his hairs. I don't think it has to do with whether the situation is temporary or permanent. I think it has to do with what that person looked like at that point in time when the hair was taken from them.

Hope that makes sense!:D

[OliveOil_Med]

Oh no! Two different arguments, and both are just so, so convincing. I'm just going to have to dwell on this within my own head some more.

But opaleye, what are your thoughts on glamours?

[the opaleye]

Hm, glamours...

So if you were to take the form of a person much taller than you are, and someone tried to throw a book at your head, it would just pass right through.


Okay, so a glamour is like an illusion, right? So, this is my theory. The glamour gives the illusion that the head is there but really it isn't. However, if your argument is correct then that means anybody with a glamour would not really be able to touch anything or anyone without being found out. Say, a small man uses a glamour to appear taller and larger in general. His hands therefore seem bigger. If he tries to touch someone else or take their hand, then he would be exposed as a fake too since his hand would appear to touch the other person before his actual hand had made contact. This would rake up all sorts of complications. Gosh, that sounds confusing. It's hard to explain my theory.

Therefore, with glamours, even though the hand or head does not actually exist, it looks like it does and makes contact with the world around it as if it exists too. So, if someone threw a book through the short mans glamourised head, then the book would appear to make contact and would fall to the ground as if it had hit a real head. The book would have actually hit the real mans head even if the book had been thrown higher than where the real mans head occupies in space. I think it would be part of the glamour charm, that the glamour appears to exist and thus appears to interact with the world as if it truly existed as well.

In my head, this all makes sense, but writing it down was quite hard. I hope you can make some sort of sense out of this :o

[Inverarity]

Polyjuice: It depends on how you decide the magic works, but I think Harry Potter magic rarely follows any sort of rigorous (or even non-rigorous) system of pseudo-scientific rules. It does what works thematically. I think Polyjuice Potion will make you look like the person whose hair you took, most likely at the time you took it. If you take the hair of a pregnant woman, then you're going to look pregnant, because the magic is going to magically make you look like her. That's what the spell to create the potion does: "Make me look like this person."

What if the person whose hair you took is injured? Then you'll probably wind up with the same injuries. If it can duplicate hair (which is the most temporary and easily changeable detail of appearance of all) then it probably duplicates cuts and bruises and pregnancies, too.

Glamours: Do they fool the mind, or only the senses? If the latter, then a short person Glamoured to look like a tall person will basically be wearing a "hologram" and you can see a book passing through him if you toss it at his head. But if they fool the mind, then the magic is more flexible and comprehensive and will do whatever it has to to maintain the illusion, including making a book bounce off the subject's head.

[leahsm2]

Polyjuice: It depends on how you decide the magic works, but I think Harry Potter magic rarely follows any sort of rigorous (or even non-rigorous) system of pseudo-scientific rules. It does what works thematically. I think Polyjuice Potion will make you look like the person whose hair you took, most likely at the time you took it. If you take the hair of a pregnant woman, then you're going to look pregnant, because the magic is going to magically make you look like her. That's what the spell to create the potion does: "Make me look like this person."

Huh. I would assume that for that one hour, you'd actually be pregnant or near-sighted or whatever, just because of the horrific side effects Hermione experienced from the unfortunate cross-species thing. I think it makes sense, anyway.

[Inverarity]

Huh. I would assume that for that one hour, you'd actually be pregnant or near-sighted or whatever, just because of the horrific side effects Hermione experienced from the unfortunate cross-species thing. I think it makes sense, anyway.

Well, if it actually makes you pregnant, then magic would be creating life, which would violate Gamp's Law. It might duplicate the effects and physical appearance of pregnancy, though.

[hestiajones]

Originally posted by Kara:
It's good thinking, but I'm not sure if the "temporary condition" reasoning works. When you think about it, for example your body fat is a temporary condition too, because it changes quickly when you eat or exercise – or on an even more basic level, your haircut is a very temporary condition, yet you get the same haircut as the person whose polyjuice you drank. So at least they'd have to look pregnant –*I think.

Hmm...I suppose this makes better sense.

I did find the idea of looking pregnant (that is, having a - er - bloated tummy) without actually being pregnant a little weird. :rolleyes: But, of course, if your resembling the other person's appearance is something like a charm - that is, if you don't actually become that person...But then, there is that issue with eyesight again. Which means that you do become the person.

And I have trapped myself in a conundrum.

Maybe this is one of those areas of magic which one is not supposed to tamper with. *shrugs*

[OliveOil_Med]

Hm, I like opaleye's explaination of glamours. I may have to adapt my own thinking a little bit. I didn't quite think it through, it would seem.

As to the pregnancy debate, I think the person would become extremely bloated, but they wouldn't pregnant themselves. I actually read about a psychological condition where a woman can take on the appearences of being pregnant without actually becomming pregnany. It's very rare, but it does happen. Though I think a Polyjuice Potion might help things along.

But I do have another pondering. Day a person needed to take on the form of a woman before she became pregnant. Would hairs collected before she became pregnant be able to succeed in doing this, or do you think Polyjuice Potions only work with freshly gathered ingredients. Brings up an entirely new topic of people being able to transform into people who have died.

[Tim the Enchanter]

But I do have another pondering. Day a person needed to take on the form of a woman before she became pregnant. Would hairs collected before she became pregnant be able to succeed in doing this, or do you think Polyjuice Potions only work with freshly gathered ingredients. Brings up an entirely new topic of people being able to transform into people who have died.

I think you would take the form of the person at the time their hair was collected. What canon evidence is there to support this? Well, none, but it's just how I think it would work.

So, if you plucked a woman's hair before she became pregnant, you will take her non-pregnant form. And if you have a hair taken from someone who had died, you can still look like him/her. However, if you were to take a hair from a rotting corpse, you might just end up looking like a rotting corpse.

Here's a question: What if the person you want to look like was tragically hit by a cannonball and blown to little pieces? If you were to take a hair from his/her severed head, would the Polyjuice Potion give you the appearance of the person when they were whole, or would you end up being a writhing collection of red rags?

Tim the Enchanter

[Equinox Chick]

Hmmm, and here I have another problem ... I want to ask why Barty Crouch jnr, kept Mad Eye alive when he could have killed him and shaved all his hair off and kept that as a stash. My reasoning has always been that the hair needed to be as fresh as possible so Alastor had to be alive.

BUT, the hair Hermione collected (Millicent's cat) wasn't fresh at all. Harry and Ron collected fresh Crabbe and Goyle. Perhaps the fact that it was cat hair and old, left Hermione with her 'furry problem' for far longer than the hour Ron and Harry were PJ'd.

I still don't think the person would actually become pregnant, but I think he/she would look pregnant.

Carole

[OliveOil_Med]

Tim, your morbid mind is showing again, and for some reason, we encourage it.

I suppose if you took hairs from someone who had been torn to bits, they would become just torn bits as well, but then they would alos be dead, so I don't imagine they would be able to change back afterwards. Or would they?

What does your morbid mind have to say on the subject, Tim?

[leahsm2]

I think you would take the form of the person at the time their hair was collected. What canon evidence is there to support this? Well, none, but it's just how I think it would work.

Me too. I don't think its a manifestation of magic creating life, exactly, but of manifesting yourself as the person in whatever state they were in at the time you plucked the hair, so as Tim so eloquently put it, if you plucked the hair of a "writhing collection of red rags?" you'd be yourself as manifested inside aformentioned collection of red rags for one hour. You'd be you again when it wore off I think, because its sort of like how an animagi is radically different than a transfigured human. Why? Not sure, unfortunately I'm stuck being a Muggle :( but I would assume its in the nature of the magic being performed.

[Inverarity]

I agree that you'd take the form of the person at the time the hair was collected. In Hermione's case, I assume she took the form of the cat (more or less) at the time it shed its hair on Millicent's robe.

Everything else is extrapolation, but we also know magic has limits. It's probably reasonable to assume that the hair has to be fairly fresh -- which would explain why Crouch kept Moody alive; you can't just shave someone's head, then kill them, then use the hair you collected to masquerade as that person indefinitely. (Though that would be a pretty interesting plot...)

Collecting hair from a corpse would probably make you look like a corpse. Collecting hair from a dismembered head? Eww. Depending on how grisly you want it to be, it might turn you into a dismembered head (would that kill you? Or would you be magically restored when the potion wears off), or -- because there was no body to copy -- maybe the result would be that your head would transform, but not the rest of you.

There are obviously limits to just how complete the transformation can be -- Hermione did not actually turn into a cat.

[Tim the Enchanter]

Tim, your morbid mind is showing again, and for some reason, we encourage it.

I suppose if you took hairs from someone who had been torn to bits, they would become just torn bits as well, but then they would alos be dead, so I don't imagine they would be able to change back afterwards. Or would they?

What does your morbid mind have to say on the subject, Tim?

I think Polyjuice should be dangerous, and have some risks involved. We already know that lots of things go wrong if you used cat hair, for instance.

So I think that if you were to take the hair from someone who had been blown to bits, you will also turn into a writhing collection of red rags, meaning YOU WILL DIE. People don't tend to live if they're in pieces, so you will expire by virtue of what you are trying to mimic - something dead. Also, I don't imagine a pile of body parts would be able to reassemble themselves!

Why? Not sure, unfortunately I'm stuck being a Muggle :( but I would assume its in the nature of the magic being performed.

You give me an idea for another question: Would a wizard assuming the form of a Squib be able to perform magic? What about a Squib or Muggle using Polyjuice to take the form of a wizard?

Tim the Enchanter

[Equinox Chick]

Would a wizard assuming the form of a Squib be able to perform magic? What about a Squib or Muggle using Polyjuice to take the form of a wizard?

I'm going to say yes to the first, because you keep your own self when you take Polyjuice Potion. Although harry felt his footsteps and voice becoming slow like Crabbes (or was he Goyle?) he was still Harry, so I think a wizard taking the form of a Squib would syill be able to do magic.

And for that reason I'd say a Squib or Muggle taking PJ potion wouldn't be able to perform magic.

Polyjuice is a disguise but that's all, it doesn't change you permanantly (ie genetically) and although Hermione complains about the eyesight - it's temporary. When they broke into Gringotts all the disguises came apart - Hermione stopped being Bellatrix and Ron looked like Ron again

[leahsm2]

So I think that if you were to take the hair from someone who had been blown to bits, you will also turn into a writhing collection of red rags, meaning YOU WILL DIE. People don't tend to live if they're in pieces, so you will expire by virtue of what you are trying to mimic - something dead. Also, I don't imagine a pile of body parts would be able to reassemble themselves!

>.> You don't really know that in that well, I was thinking about the Time Turner. There are two Hermiones and two Harry's at exactly the same moment because the future ones affect the behaviors of the earlier ones so they are all in the same moment at the same time and they shouldn't be by all logic, but they are so therefore I think you could make a case that you could inhabit unliving tissue, maybe in the same way an animal transfigured into an inanimate, non living thing can be returned to living. It seems possible to me at any rate.

[Inverarity]

I think Polyjuice should be dangerous, and have some risks involved. We already know that lots of things go wrong if you used cat hair, for instance.

So I think that if you were to take the hair from someone who had been blown to bits, you will also turn into a writhing collection of red rags, meaning YOU WILL DIE. People don't tend to live if they're in pieces, so you will expire by virtue of what you are trying to mimic - something dead. Also, I don't imagine a pile of body parts would be able to reassemble themselves!

True, but I keep thinking of splinching, which apparently can leave pieces of you behind, yet it doesn't seem to be regarded as a serious risk, just kind of annoying and inconvenient.

This is another one of those things where it's going to depend on whether you're writing the YA version of the Potterverse that Rowling did (where someone turning into a bloody pile of dismembered bits and dying kind of goes against the genre), or the "adult" version.



You give me an idea for another question: Would a wizard assuming the form of a Squib be able to perform magic? What about a Squib or Muggle using Polyjuice to take the form of a wizard?

I don't think Polyjuice Potion changes your intrinsic qualities. Saying that you'd gain or lose magic would be like saying you could gain or lose intelligence. Would Polyjuicing yourself into Dumbledore make you as great a wizard as him? Obviously not.

I don't think someone who used Polyjuice Potion to turn themselves into Remus would become a werewolf, nor would would Polyjuicing into Tonks make you a temporary metamorphmagus.

[OliveOil_Med]

And going on with this theme, a Muggle who took the Polyjuice Potion would not be able to perform magic if they took the form of a wizard.

I wonder if Polyjuice would work for turning into a vampire, or if they are technically considered human. I know that if you were to take hair from Lupin while he was in his werewolf state, they would not become a werewolf, but I wonder if vampires would be considered humans in this context.

[Inverarity]

I wonder if Polyjuice would work for turning into a vampire, or if they are technically considered human. I know that if you were to take hair from Lupin while he was in his werewolf state, they would not become a werewolf, but I wonder if vampires would be considered humans in this context.


Given what happened to Hermione, taking hair from a werewolf (in werewolf state) probably would not actually turn you into a werewolf, but it would turn you into something decidedly hairy and wolfen-looking.

Polyjuicing into a vampire wouldn't turn you into a vampire, but you'd probably wind up looking very, very pale, and having fangs.

[Karaley Dargen]

I don't think using hair from a dead person would work – I think it has to live when you take it, and I don't think you can keep it in store forever before using it. Following that thought, I doubt that the Polyjuice potion would work with Vampires at all...

[OliveOil_Med]

So it would seem that everyone is pretty much in agreement about the nature of Polyjuice, that it is only a disguise and that the persons innate abilities (or lack there of) would remain intaked after the potion was taken. And that if you took hairs from a pregnant woman, you would NOT end up pregnant yourself.

But then, what would be the difference between disguises obtained through Polyjuice and ones used through glamours? If glamours produced equal results to Polyjuice, why would anyone even bother with it. What could be some downsides to the use of glamours.

As I have said before, I have always though of glamours as illusions that could only fool the eyes, but I person's sense of hearing, touch, and all the others could tell them the person was not who they were pretending to be.

[TheCursedQuill]

I don't think using hair from a dead person would work – I think it has to live when you take it, and I don't think you can keep it in store forever before using it.
This is exactly what I was thinking as I was reading everyone's response. What if Crouch Jr. kept Moody alive, becuase he had too? I don't think the Polyjuice Potion would work on a dead person, just like it doesn't work with animals. If someone tried, they would either mutilate their body horribly, or they would die in my opinion.

But then, what would be the difference between disguises obtained through Polyjuice and ones used through glamours?

When you use a galmour, your voice wouldn't change and certainly not your eyesight. So I think Polyjuice would be something more believeable because it can do those things. Also, glamour has been described as being heavy and when one wears it, it's like wearing a large winter's coat all the time, and that's just not very comfortable. Glamours are something that you just put on top of yourself to fool everyone else. The PJ potion actually turns into that person.

There's also the point that using a PJ potion, you have to disguise yourself as someone already living, whereas with a glamour you could become a totally new person. So there's good and bad for either or, I suppose. It just depends on what you need the disguise for and what you need it to do.

[Inverarity]

A Glamour might also be more easily dispelled ("Finite Incantatem!") or seen through with something like Moody's glass eye.

[Sapphire at Dawn]

I also imagine that glamours would take strength of mind to hold the illusion in place, and that for many wizards, taking a simple potion would be a lot easier than keeping up the necessary level of concentration required to fool everyone.Therefore I think only someone who was very skillfull and had a lot of magical power could achieve it for any substantial length of time would be someone like Dumbledore. It would be a lot easier in the long run just to take the potion.

Do you think that the Polyjuice Potion would transform someones insides as well? It obviously doesn't transform the brain as when Ron, Hermione and co transformed into Harry, they still kept their own minds, but what would happen if you transformed into someone who was in the advanced stages of cancer and their organs were covered in tumours? Would the person who transformed into them also have the tumours?

[the opaleye]

Do you think that the Polyjuice Potion would transform someones insides as well? It obviously doesn't transform the brain as when Ron, Hermione and co transformed into Harry, they still kept their own minds, but what would happen if you transformed into someone who was in the advanced stages of cancer and their organs were covered in tumours? Would the person who transformed into them also have the tumours?

This is a tough one. I think one of the reasons we decided that you wouldn't become pregnant was because that it would violate Gamp's laws i.e it would create new life. However, with things like tumours... To be honest, I think that you would temporarily have the tumours. Just because the tumours in question are internal does not mean they will not be there. If someone had a tumour say on their neck, which protuded out from the skin, we'd assume that it would be there if you used their hairs in polyjuice potion. I doubt that they would kill you, though, even at advanced stages of tumourous cancer. You would probably just turn back into your normal self if it came to that.

I think that the fact you keep your mind is part of the potions magic. Your brain would have changed due to the fact that it has to fit inside someone elses head and the fact that it has to control someone elses body, but your mind stays yours.

[leahsm2]

This is a tough one. I think one of the reasons we decided that you wouldn't become pregnant was because that it would violate Gamp's laws i.e it would create new life. However, with things like tumours... To be honest, I think that you would temporarily have the tumours. Just because the tumours in question are internal does not mean they will not be there. If someone had a tumour say on their neck, which protuded out from the skin, we'd assume that it would be there if you used their hairs in polyjuice potion. I doubt that they would kill you, though, even at advanced stages of tumourous cancer. You would probably just turn back into your normal self if it came to that.

I think that the fact you keep your mind is part of the potions magic. Your brain would have changed due to the fact that it has to fit inside someone elses head and the fact that it has to control someone elses body, but your mind stays yours.
>.> Why are you allowing some one else's interpretation of Gamp's laws to limit your choices? This is why I hem and haw before I answer these threads. I really find it tiring that people just decide they have all of the answers, and refuse to even entertain other options. Enjoy yourselves, I frankly no longer care.

[Inverarity]

>.> Why are you allowing some one else's interpretation of Gamp's laws to limit your choices? This is why I hem and haw before I answer these threads. I really find it tiring that people just decide they have all of the answers, and refuse to even entertain other options. Enjoy yourselves, I frankly no longer care.


Well, the point of the thread is to toss ideas around and discuss interpretations of canon. Gamp's Law seems to be a pretty strong argument against creating an actual pregnancy, but we've seen a number of interesting opinions about how Polyjuice Potion would work in various exceptional situations. (I'll bet Rowling never thought of most of them!)

And of course, no one's choices are limited -- everything here is an opinion and no one is being told what they can or cannot write. (Of course, if someone does write a story in which Polyjuice Potion makes someone pregnant, they are likely to get readers challenging its canonicity. ;) )

Frankly, I'm not sure where the indignation or dissatisfaction with the discussion comes from.

[the opaleye]

>.> Why are you allowing some one else's interpretation of Gamp's laws to limit your choices? This is why I hem and haw before I answer these threads. I really find it tiring that people just decide they have all of the answers, and refuse to even entertain other options. Enjoy yourselves, I frankly no longer care.

Hm, perhaps I should have phrased it differently. I was just saying that I agreed with the notion that Gamp's Law explained why you wouldn't become pregnant. And from there, I tried to fit my answer to the tumour question around that notion.

And of course, no one's choices are limited -- everything here is an opinion and no one is being told what they can or cannot write. (Of course, if someone does write a story in which Polyjuice Potion makes someone pregnant, they are likely to get readers challenging its canonicity.)

My thoughts exactly. I didn't mean to say that what I thought was the be all and end all. It was just my opinion and I was trying to back it up with justification. Personally, I think Gamp's Law is good evidence since it is canon.

But what do you all think about my theory for tumours and the mind? Do you agree? Disagree? Both? I'm certainly not tired of this topic, it's very interesting and I love seeing how others interpret the theories presented in here.

[leahsm2]

Frankly, I'm not sure where the indignation or dissatisfaction with the discussion comes from.
Really? I'm sorry but the way that last question was incorporated was unsettling to me. She started her point by saying that given the confines of the argument are "this", my point arises from "that". This isn't the first time i've seen this happen. No. I'm not being specific to this thread at this time because my "indignation or dissatifaction" and more than likely both, arise from the fact that it makes me extremely tired, yep worn out, in fact, that it is practically impossible to have any sort of discussion anywhere on this forum without being met with some sort of attitude that stops any other ideas dead in their tracks. It's boring. And I'm sorry I bothered to answer. I no longer will. So have at it. Who Cares? I don't. Bye.

[Inverarity]

But what do you all think about my theory for tumours and the mind? Do you agree? Disagree? Both? I'm certainly not tired of this topic, it's very interesting and I love seeing how others interpret the theories presented in here.

I think of Polyjuice as basically reshaping your flesh to make it as close to the subject's form as possible. It's got to have limits -- it obviously does not clone every cell, or you would also wind up with the subject's brain, and be the subject for all practical purposes.

I think, like pregnancies, you'd have "fake" tumors -- they'd outwardly (or even internally, if you used an X-ray) look like the subject's tumors, but I don't think they'd actually be cancerous.

[Sapphire at Dawn]

New question/wondering.

What do people suppose happens to the body during the time you are the other person, biologically? Magic cannot create new life, but would this include meiosis and mitosis? I would have thought it would, but is there the posibility that it isn't classed as new life? If it is classed as creating life, then mitosis and meiosis can't take place, so what happens to the body? Is this why the potion needs to be drank every hour, so the cells can have time to replenish, and new hairs need to be added so that this can happen and prevent organ faliure?

Also, why do you think that the potion isn't supposed to be used on animals, or half-giants? Is it to do with their biological make up?

I really think JKR, as brilliant a storyteller as she is, did not think of these things when creating Polyjuice Potion.

EDIT:: I really need to read my sentances propterly before I post....

[the opaleye]

New question/wondering.

What do people suppose happens to the body during the time you are the other person, biologically? Magic cannot create new life, but would this include meiosis and mitosis? I would have thought it would, but is there the posibility that it isn't classed as new life? If it is classed as creating life, then mitosis and meiosis can't take place, so what happens to the body? Is this why the potion needs to be drank every hour, so the cells can have time to replenish, and new hairs need to be added so that this can happen and prevent organ faliure?

Also, why do you think that the potion isn't supposed to be used on animals, or half-giants? Is it to do with their biological make up?

I really think JKR, as brilliant a storyteller as she is, did not think of these things when creating Polyjuice Potion.

EDIT:: I really need to read my sentances propterly before I post....

I will try not to be restrictive in my reasoning this time round ;) I consider Polyjuice potion to be a form of human transfiguration so if this is true then when you use it and change, you are not creating new life (because you yourself are already alive) but changing it into another form. I think, along that side of the argument, biological functions such as meiosis and mitosis must still occur. I think the reasoning behind drinking the potion every hour would be more due to the fact that like any sort of medicine, it does not last in the bloodstream forever. If meiosis and mitosis and other biological functions were to stop during the period of transformation then you would probably need to be on a constant drip of PJ as the body would not last the full hour.

The thing with JKR is that in her world, she did not need to deal with these situations. I'm sure she would have come up with similar explanations if the need arose.

Remember, this is just my opinion. I won't be mad if you disagree with me. In fact, I love seeing other peoples theories and reasonings :)

[Inverarity]

I'd tend to agree -- when you're Polyjuiced, you're still in your body. If you get hurt while in Polyjuiced form, you'll still be hurt when you change back. Likewise, you're still going to age while you're in another body, and get hungry, etc.

I think the reason Polyjuice Potion isn't meant to be used with animals or giants is that the transformation is too great. A human turning into something radically non-human is going to go through a tremendous amount of physical and mental stress. Imagine, realistically, if you were suddenly ten feet taller, or a quadruped with completely different senses. It wouldn't be like in comic books and movies where you can just start running around in your new form as if it were perfectly natural -- you'd probably barely be able to control your new body at first.

That's no doubt why Animorphmagi are so rare and strictly controlled -- part of what makes it difficult is not just the transformation itself, but being able to function and preserve your sanity while in an animal body.

Gamp's Law Tangent:

The fact that you can't create life does not, to me, suggest that magic cannot create living cells (or pretty much any sort of transfiguration of living beings would be impossible), or at least sculpt them from other living cells, but that you can't create a new entity. So, for example, you can't conjure a squirrel out of thin air. You might be able to summon a squirrel from elsewhere and make it look like you just created it, or you might be able to turn a beetle into a squirrel... but you couldn't turn a pillow into a squirrel.

There are a few instances in the books where wizards do seem to conjure living things out of thin air or transform them from nonliving objects, like Hermione's canaries. I'd suggest either they were, as mentioned above, summoned, or else things like the canaries were magical constructs, not really alive. So maybe you could turn a pillow into something that runs around and looks like a squirrel, but it wouldn't really be alive, and it would turn back into a pillow when the spell ends.

[Sainyn Swiftfoot]

Hmm. I've been (somewhat) following this discussion... Very interesting.

I suppose one reason the person you are trying to look like should be kept alive is because if you use hair from only one stage of their life, they'd never age... That prompts interesting plot bunnies.

I have a question. Let us assume that Arthur Weasley takes Polyjuice Potion with his wife's toenail clippings in it, and looks like Molly Weasley. Now if I were to take the Arthur-now-Molly's hair, put it in polyjuice potion and drink it, would I look like Arthur, or would I like look Molly?

All this talk of husbands taking Polyjuice to look like their wives makes me think of other kinky, not-really-appropriate uses for the potion... >.>

[ahattab33]

Originally posted by BB:
I suppose one reason the person you are trying to look like should be kept alive is because if you use hair from only one stage of their life, they'd never age...

In addition, upon a reread of GOF this morning over breakfast, I realized just how well Crouch was able to impersonate Moody for so long. Which leads to another benefit of keeping the hairs form an alive person rather than a dead person. Depending on how well you know them, you'll need them alive to keep asking them questions on how to respond to new situations. And the dead person can't keep producing hairs forever - in the case of Crouch / Moody, for example, he'd want Moody to keep growing hairs if he needed to stay Moody indefinitely.

Eew.

This whole discussion is fascinating and kind of gross.

As for your new questions, BB - I have no freaking idea.

~Amanda

[OliveOil_Med]

It could also just be that Moody was kept alive just for the sake of the story. Or it could be that Barty Crouch Jr. was just a personal lacking in imagination or creativity.

[Inverarity]

It could also just be that Moody was kept alive just for the sake of the story. Or it could be that Barty Crouch Jr. was just a personal lacking in imagination or creativity.

As contrived as some of Rowling's plot devices were, I don't think she'd have had Crouch keeping Moody alive "just because."

And it wouldn't take much imagination to think of shaving someone's head and using the hair to create months worth of Polyjuice Potion, so I suspect that if you could get away with doing that, Crouch would have disposed of Moody.

Unfortunately, the theory that the (living) hair has to come directly from someone's head is belied by Millicent's cat hairs.

So maybe wizards just think you can't use dead hair (perhaps a lot of magical "recipes" have been handed down for centuries and hardly anyone dares to change them), or maybe it was partly the fact that it wasn't that fresh that made Hermione's transformation so horrific (or, alternatively, kept it from being worse). Or maybe it was fresh -- like, having been shed only minutes ago - and therefore within the time limit.

[OliveOil_Med]

So what could have been some possible reactions if Hermione has used fresh cat hairs? Under what circumstances could a person get as close to an animal tranformation with the Polyjuice Potion?

Do you think it could be possible for a Polyjuice Potion to be altered so it could be used for temporary animal transformations?

[Inverarity]

So what could have been some possible reactions if Hermione has used fresh cat hairs? Under what circumstances could a person get as close to an animal tranformation with the Polyjuice Potion?

Do you think it could be possible for a Polyjuice Potion to be altered so it could be used for temporary animal transformations?

Well, we know animal transformations are possible. Moody/Crouch turned Draco into a ferret. So it's conceivable there is a potion that can do the same thing. It's probably something similar to Polyjuice Potion, but I doubt it's simply making Polyjuice Potion with animal hair instead of human hair.

I also suspect it's a lot more dangerous, kind of like becoming an Animorphmagus. See my earlier post; if you drink a potion that suddenly turns you into a cat or a ferret or a bird, you're going to be in a body that you have no idea how to control. And it's possible that becoming an animal could have other side effects that make the whole thing more dangerous.