Hogwarts Express Compartments

[minnabird]

So I have kind of a weird question. On the Hogwarts Express, the students change into their robes partway through the trip. All canon evidence (save for the illustrations) points to the idea that wizards' robes are like dresses - you don't generally wear anything under them. So how do you think they'd change: in the compartment? In a bathroom? If in the compartment, that implies that the doors on those are solid and opaque - hopefully. Does anyone know if there's any canon evidence to the contrary?

Thanks ahead of time for the help.

[Tim the Enchanter]

I was always under the impression that Hogwarts robes were more like cloaks that go over your shirt and trousers and such. I pictured students simply putting them on over whatever they were wearing.

As for the compartment doors, I imagined them to be translucent glass. You could see silhouettes and shadows and such through them, but no detail.

But then again, I guess they are actually fully transparent glass, since throughout the books Harry can see people in their compartments and they him. Even in the first book, I thinks he looks through the door to see Ron all alone.

I also recall that in Half-Blood Prince, after Malfoy petrified Harry, he closed all the blinds. So scratch the idea of the translucent glass. I suppose the door's window is fully transparent, but has shutters of some sort to block the view if the occupants wish to do so.

Tim the Enchanter

[Karaley Dargen]

In the first book, I think Ron and Harry send Hermione out because they want to change. After that, they often change in the same compartment –*I think. I don't know if they wear anything under the dressrobes, but I know that friends of mine and me have some techniques of changing clothes without standing around in your underwear at any point. So for example with robes –*they'd pull the robes over their heads, but not yet through the arms. Then you can get your arms out of the t-shirt, pull it over your head through the head-hole of the robes (am I still making sense?) and then take your trousers off. And no one would see the least bit of skin you don't want them to see – was this in any way comprehensible?

So, from canon, I think we can say that they change in their compartments. I think it would be quite a holdup if they would change in train bathrooms, as there are lots of students who notice "oh, there's Hogwarts, I have to change" at the same time...

[minnabird]

Tim - I can cite numerous examples that kind of kill that idea...that's mostly movie/illustration/fanfiction canon.

Kara - Yeah, I was thinking that might be the case.

So...any ideas as to whether the compartment doors are opaque or not?

[Tim the Enchanter]

Tim - I can cite numerous examples that kind of kill that idea...that's mostly movie/illustration/fanfiction canon.

Kara - Yeah, I was thinking that might be the case.

So...any ideas as to whether the compartment doors are opaque or not?

Well, I haven't read the books in a while, and details about people's clothing is not something I remember too well.

But for the compartment doors, I think they are transparent, but with blinds/shutters/curtains, or something or other to block the view from the corridor.

Tim the Enchanter

[Equinox Chick]

I'd always assumed that they wore clothes underneat - like Tim thought, but Snape's underwear is on show in SWM so he's obviously not wearing trousers.

Right, it only says that they take off their jackets, and Rons robes were short so you could see his trainers. It doesn't say they took off anything else. That sort of implies that they keep things on underneath - in my opinion.

I don't think the windows are opaque because they have too many visitors in later books who see Harry (Romilda, Cho etc)

Carole

EDIT - Draco pulls down blinds on the outside windows when he leaves Harry in the carriage. Could well have blinds on the inside as well.

[minnabird]

Thanks Carole - that's very helpful. And it makes sense; when you don't want to be seen you draw the blinds, when you don't mind, you can open/pull them up.
As for the clothes issue I'd rather not go into it 'cause it's not really the focus of this question...
All right I think I have my answer. Talk about fast!

[Black-Sand]

G'day

I always thought they had to wear a button up t-shirt underneath line normal schools and pants. Maybe back in the Marauders day they didn't, but I always thought they were refering to Snape's pants.

If I'm right, although I could be wrong, they would have to send the opposite gender out to change into their tops and pants.

...xXxLove SandyxXx...

[minnabird]

Okay, just for the sake of argument, my argument for no Muggle clothes under school robes (note that I do not have exact textual references because I am not flipping through the books for this).

-The list of items needed for school mention no shirts, pants, skirts, etc.
-At some point something was said along that lines that a lot of modern wizard kids wore Muggle clothes during holidays.
-If wizards regularly wore Muggle clothes under their robes, why would they be so awful at wearing them?
-Old Archie at the Quidditch World Cup makes it fairly clear that he's used to wearing something similar to the Muggle nightgown he's wearing at that time...(I do not mean to imply that wizards do not wear underwear. I'm pretty sure they do.)
-When Snape is flipped upside down, we see his underwear. While it's possible he's just a weirdo, given the rest, I'd say this could count as evidence.
-Also, when we see his memories in DH, during the part on the Hogwarts Express it mentions something about him looking more comfortable wearing his robes rather than his uncomfortable, ill-fitting Muggle clothes. If he were still wearing said clothes, would the robe really help his uncomfortableness?

Not that I'm not grateful for help, I'm just pretty convinced of my ideas about wizarding attire and am really not looking for help about that...

[LuNaLoVeGoOdLoVer]

haha, minna. you just sound so like... minna :P
i just wanna say that prolly everyone THINKS they wear muggle clothes couse they do in the movies... although WHY anyone would trust the movies. I don't know.
and I agree with you, Minna. JKR also mentions that the wealey childern ACCASIONALLY (how does one spell that???!) would 'don muggle colthing in the summer' (i think that was it) .....
and you know, Snape could look less unconfortable because the robes hide his ugly clothing... just pointing it out, I'm not disagreeing-couse I agree.....

[TheCursedQuill]

I always thought that students didn't wear muggle clothes. That's what really makes me mad about the third movie... As Minna said, if wizards wore muggle clothing, then why would they be so bad as dressing as muggles?

As for the whole robe thing (which I know is not what you want, Minna, but I feel the urge to answer!) I think students would put their robes on over whatever they are wearing, for the first night. After that they could choose to do whatever they wanted, and in Snape's case, obviously wearing just his knickers under his robes!

As for the doors, I think that are opaque. I don't have the sixth book with me right now, but is Carole says there are blinds, I'm siding with Carole! She's pretty much always accurate. There's also many times when Harry and co are talking in a compartment, and they want a little privacy so they can close the door, lock it, shut the blinds, whatever it takes to let them talk freely among themselves.

[LuNaLoVeGoOdLoVer]

As for the doors, I think that are opaque. I don't have the sixth book with me right now, but is Carole says there are blinds, I'm siding with Carole! She's pretty much always accurate. There's also many times when Harry and co are talking in a compartment, and they want a little privacy so they can close the door, lock it, shut the blinds, whatever it takes to let them talk freely among themselves.

Yeah, this makes sense. I mean, everyine is always staring at Harry when he is walking down the corridor, but never when he is in a compartment. (right? *doesn't have her book*) But they WOULD if they could, wouldn't they?
Well, I just realize Harry and co. would always shut their blinds if they had some, but then how come Romilda Vain knew where his compartment was? .... she could still know, though-tht STALKER :P

[minnabird]

I looked in HBP and there are definitely blinds because Draco let them down before doing the whole Full-Body-Bind-and-break-his-nose thing on Harry.

As for the robes...seems I've unexpectedly stirred up a debate.

[Azhure]

With the wearing clothes under robes issue, I've always thought that it depended on the wizard. If they come from a pure-blood family which has no contact with Muggles, I don't think they would wear clothes under robes. But if they have a Muggle background, they would feel more comfortable with Muggle clothing (especially for the boys, who would be unused to wearing dress-like clothes). Half-bloods would no doubt vary their choices -- depending on if they're exposed to Muggle culture and what their parentage is like.

Basically, I think it's up to personal preference.

[Padfoot Patronus]

This is going to be a very off-topic post. :o :)

-The list of items needed for school mention no shirts, pants, skirts, etc.
The robe is part of the uniform that sufficently covers the body. I don't think there is a need to specify the inner garments especially given that the general wizarding wear are robes itself.

-At some point something was said along that lines that a lot of modern wizard kids wore Muggle clothes during holidays.
Em, where?

-If wizards regularly wore Muggle clothes under their robes, why would they be so awful at wearing them?
They would be awful because they probably don't keep up with what is in fashion in the Muggle world. Wizards are occasionally shown to be backwards in many walks of life compared to the Muggles. Perhaps what they try is to ape the current trend so as to not look out of place. Trends change.

-Old Archie at the Quidditch World Cup makes it fairly clear that he's used to wearing something similar to the Muggle nightgown he's wearing at that time...(I do not mean to imply that wizards do not wear underwear. I'm pretty sure they do.)
And the wizarding alternative of a woman's nightgown would be? Like Azhure said, it's probably about what Pureblood/Half-blood/or what different age groups prefer.

-When Snape is flipped upside down, we see his underwear. While it's possible he's just a weirdo, given the rest, I'd say this could count as evidence.
The illustration in DH at the beginning of the chapter 'Kreacher's Tale' shows the photograph of the Marauders Harry finds in Sirius' room. In the drawing, the four students are clearly wearing some sort of clothes beneath their robes. James and Remus have button-down shirts while Peter and Sirius have t-shirts. In the chapter 'A Place To Hide' I think Ron and Harry also have clothing under their robes when they are shown hurrying along Tottenham Court Road. I assume illustrations are canon.

-Also, when we see his memories in DH, during the part on the Hogwarts Express it mentions something about him looking more comfortable wearing his robes rather than his uncomfortable, ill-fitting Muggle clothes. If he were still wearing said clothes, would the robe really help his uncomfortableness?
It appears to Harry that he had indeed taken the opportunity to take his clothes off and replace them with school robes. But this is Snape we are talking about. See that this is actually the fifth time that Jo makes a reference to Snape's clothes in five pages. He could easily be an exception to this general rule because he's probably never wore decent Muggle clothes, which therefore explains his evasion to them. This could also explain his wearing just pants in SWM.

[Equinox Chick]

This has just occurred to me. SWM is set in June (exam time). It's a hot day (the girls are cooling off by the lake). Perhaps Snape isn't wearing trousers because it's hot. Perhaps the reason it's so 'amusing' to the other students is because he's not wearing trousers (or shorts) and that's why their laughing.

I think the many references to his ill fitting clothes are, like Akay said, reason enough for him to discard them. Despite having a Muggle Dad, he doesn't have any new clothes - he wears his dad's hand-me-downs. It's hardly surprising that he wanted to get out of them asap.

The illustration in DH at the beginning of the chapter 'Kreacher's Tale' shows the photograph of the Marauders Harry finds in Sirius' room.
We don't get illustrations in UK editions. That could just be the illustrator's idea of what they looked like but maybe JK would have some say in the pics - especially by book seven, although she wasn't able to veto the Italian front covers which had some sort of rodent in a hat on the front cover.

EDIT: At some point something was said along that lines that a lot of modern wizard kids wore Muggle clothes during holidays.

Em, where?

In GOF (Back to The Burrow) Vernon is shouting at harry and says he hopes the Weasleys will be wearing normal clothes ...

Harry felt a slight sense of foreboding. He had rarely seen Mr or Mrs Weasley wearing anything that the Durselys would call 'normal'. Their children might don Muggle clothing during the holidays, but Mr and Mrs Weasley usually wore long robes in varying states of shabbiness.

Carole

[Halgy]

ACCASIONALLY
Occasionally. Google knows everything.

I just wanted to add a couple pieces of evidence: I recall that Peaves once made Nevil light his pants on fire before he could pass, and Harry wore a t-shirt under his Quidditch robes when he played Slytherin in his 3rd year. As such, I've always thought that (most) students wore some clothes under their robes (besides just their skivvies); as such, they would just wear their robes over their normal clothes first day back and wouldn't need discrete changing rooms or anything.


As for wizards normally wearing muggle clothes: We know that Ron (as wizarding as you can get) wears jeans (since Hermione packed his old ones when they left the Burrow in DH), and the Christmas jumpers that his mum knits could pass as muggle, really.

it might be that wizards in Harry's generation like to wear muggle clothes (the muggle-borns would for sure). However, older generations don't, and therefore they don't know how to dress.

[Sapphire at Dawn]

I just wanted to add a couple pieces of evidence: I recall that Peaves once made Nevil light his pants on fire before he could pass.

I think in this instance, it's reffering to Neville's underwear, not his trousers.

I think the evidence is somewhat confusing in the books, in some cases we have things like Harry's tshirt mentioned, and in others, descriptions of how wizards are terrible at dressing like Muggles.

I am inclined to go with the theory that more Muggle born students choose to wear clothes under their robes, if only to feel decent. When I was in school, we used to wear shorts under our kilts in summer just so nobody would see anything if the wind were to blow. It could be a simelar case here.

[Eponine]

Another point to add to the mix is that Draco takes points away from Ron in OotP because his shirt is untucked. That implies that there's an opening in the front of the robe (or maybe that Ron just isn't wearing one?)

Maybe the robes can button all the way up, and students can choose to have it opened or closed. People who wear it opened clearly need to wear something else, because walking around in your undies is a no go in any school. Another possibility is that there are two kinds of robes--the open kind and the not open kind. I went to a school with a uniform, and we could wear pullover sweaters or cardigans.

This is extremely complicated. XD I think Jo wasn't very consistent in her image, which is what's causing all of the confusion.

[ron lover]

This probably won't help, but it's just what I thought.

You know how some people wear undershirts and cami's under their clothes so some of the shirts aren't see-through or so they don't scratch? I just thought they wore an under shirt under their robes. Or in the winter they wear a white button up shirt under their robes so they are a bit warmer and in the summer you would just wear an undershirt. I think it would depend on your blood status on what you did.


This is extremely complicated. XD I think Jo wasn't very consistent in her image, which is what's causing all of the confusion.

I agree with you there. :p

[Sapphire at Dawn]

In several schools I know, the uniforms changed as the student's got older. In the school my sisters go to, when you get to year ten you get a different jumper and polo shirt (heaven knows why), and it's the same with a school several of my friends went to. When they got to year ten they wore a-line kilts instead of the normal ones because they were more flattering and grown up. This could be the case with the Hogwarts robes, maybe they have closed ones in the lower years, say from first to fifth, and then open ones in sixth and seventh? That could explain why Ron's shirt was untucked and Snape wasn't wearing trousers. But it could also be nonsense :P

This is extremely complicated. XD I think Jo wasn't very consistent in her image, which is what's causing all of the confusion.

Yes, I third that :D