Fast, High Quanity Mailing

[OliveOil_Med]

I need to come up with a way to create a wizarding method of transporting large amounts of materials in a fast amount of time. I can think of plenty of ways that Muggles would be able to do it, but I need a way that wizards would be able to do it as well.

This may require some creative thinking to come up with. Can anyone help me out?

[Tim the Enchanter]

I think the best way would just be to turn whatever you want to send into a Portkey.

For instance, if you want to transport a large crate of stuff, just do a Portus on it, set the timer (DON'T MAKE IT TOUCH-ACTIVATED!), and have it teleport almost instantaneously to it's destination.

Tim the Enchanter

[Inverarity]

It's not clear whether you can send things via Portkey without a wizard accompanying them, or how much mass a wizard can take with him/her through a Portkey.

My inclination would be to assume that Portkeys are somewhat restricted in utility, or you'd see them being used more often (they sure seem to beat Floo travel). Being able to ship tons of materials instantly from point to point would have a pretty major impact. (See Larry Niven's essays and stories on the effect that teleportation technology would have on society.)

You could just handwave all that away and use Tim's idea to shove everything through a Portkey. If not, two other possibilities occur to me:

1. Dragons! (Or -- via ocean shipping -- giant squids!) The problem being how to keep Muggles from spotting the critters. (Somewhat easier with giant squids.)

2. We know wizards use vehicles which are both able to hide from Muggle sight, and carry more than their exterior size suggests. (The Hogwarts Express and the Knight Bus.) So perhaps someone comes up with some sort of wizarding equivalent of a shipping company, using trucks or freighters that look like vans and sailboats.

2a. Alternatively, they use Muggle transportation, but spell the materials to take up less space, so the Muggle shipping company (or mail carriers!) don't know they are carrying an entire disassembled castle, bricks and all...

[Tim the Enchanter]

It's not clear whether you can send things via Portkey without a wizard accompanying them, or how much mass a wizard can take with him/her through a Portkey.

Well, I hadn't thought about size restrictions on Portkeys, but from the books, we do know that they don't need a human to accompany them. Remember in Deathly Hallows, when the Order extracted Harry from the Dursleys with the seven-Harry decoy scheme, each safe house had a Portkey set on a timer to go straight to the Burrow. One of those Porkeys (the one for George and Remus) arrived at the Burrow alone and without either of them.

So, there could very well be some size restrictions (like you'll need to be a very powerful wizard to send a bus-sized package as a Portkey), but the books indicate that Portkey's can be sent alone, without a human attached to them. So I'm quite certain that you can teleport packages at least in this manner. If you want to transport something really big, you can split the load and send several Portkeys if you can't make a spell powerful enough for the whole thing.

That's just what I'm thinking...

Tim the Enchanter

[OliveOil_Med]

Hm, it kind of makes you wonder how stores are able to function if it is not clear how wizards can recieve their quantity. Maybe the transporters in the wizarding world are really highly skilled people who transport 'bus-sized' packages to different stores through Portkeys.

Or maybe they use the Floo Networks to transport parts of invantory a little bit at a time.

I'll think of something.

[Halgy]

The floo network is an obvious idea. If the location is remote, perhaps have a way to connect camp fires to the network.

Otherwise, there is a way to do it; Dumbledore sent Harry's trunk and things on ahead when taking him from the Dursley's 6th year. It never said how he did it, but it could be based on portkey technology as said previously.

Or perhaps you could have couriers that could be hired to apperate with the stuff.

[bluexroses]

Well we know that objects can be shrunk, down to very small sizes. I think that most businesses would find it convenient to just shrink everything down and send it via owl.

[OliveOil_Med]

Well we know that objects can be shrunk, down to very small sizes. I think that most businesses would find it convenient to just shrink everything down and send it via owl.
I can't believe I didn't think of that myself! Stupid, stupid, stupid!

And shrinking spells are certainly a lot simpler than creating Portkeys, I'm sure. I suppose sometimes people just try to find the mostcomplicated answer for the simplest questions.

But just to make this a complicated issue once again, I will add a new condition. A Muggle needs to send high quanity packages (crate-loads, I mean) to a family member. How would he go about doing it? Not a simple as you might think when you really start to look at the question.

[Tim the Enchanter]

Well we know that objects can be shrunk, down to very small sizes. I think that most businesses would find it convenient to just shrink everything down and send it via owl.

I can't believe I didn't think of that myself! Stupid, stupid, stupid!

But if you shrink something, aren't you just condensing it? Sure, it may be smaller, but it should weigh the same, so if you're shrink something big and heavy, it'll probably be too heavy for an owl to carry.

And how can you be sure that your package isn't in any way damaged by the shrinking spell?

Tim the Enchanter

[Halgy]

Oh! Another simple idea is to use an un-detectable expansion charm like Hermione did on her bag. She hauled around tons of stuff and it didn't weigh her down at all. In that way, something small (like an owl) could carry anything. Plus, the idea of pulling a grand piano out of a owl's message pouch could be quite funny.

[OliveOil_Med]

Oh, another good idea!

I have somthing I'm wondering about that method too, though. If the bag were charmed and then sent to a Muggle, do you think the Muggle would be able to fill it? If it is just the question of dropping something into a bag, that doesn't seem like it would require any magic? Or do you think even this would require someone with magic to do it?

[Tim the Enchanter]

Oh! Another simple idea is to use an un-detectable expansion charm like Hermione did on her bag. She hauled around tons of stuff and it didn't weigh her down at all. In that way, something small (like an owl) could carry anything. Plus, the idea of pulling a grand piano out of a owl's message pouch could be quite funny.

She was able to cram lots of things into her bag with the expansion charm, but the bag still weighed the same - it thudded unusually audibly whenever it was dropped.

So, you could put a lot of things into a bag with an expansion charm on it, but I think it would be too heavy for an owl to carry.

Tim the Enchanter

[Inverarity]

She was able to cram lots of things into her bag with the expansion charm, but the bag still weighed the same - it thudded unusually audibly whenever it was dropped.

So, you could put a lot of things into a bag with an expansion charm on it, but I think it would be too heavy for an owl to carry.


There's a point here which I've alluded to in other threads -- sometimes, when considering what can be done with magic, you need to take into account not only what's established in canon, but what would "break" the setting. (Also known as stretching the reader's suspension of disbelief.) If magic can do certain things, the implications would be far-reaching; therefore, you shouldn't let magic do those things.

Anything involving instantaneous communication and/or rapid transportation of large masses falls into that category. Communication is obviously an issue in the wizarding world; if wizards come up with the magical equivalent of cell phones, then a lot of the plot in the Harry Potter books falls apart. ("Hello, Sirius? Have you been captured by Voldemort? No? Okay, I guess I won't run off to the Department of Mysteries, then.")

Likewise, being able to just ship lots of stuff by shrinking it and sending it by owl or Muggle post would have nearly as great an effect as giving wizards unlimited Apportation around the world. If you let magic easily get around logistical difficulties like that, a lot of stories are going to fall apart. I think letting wizards have the equivalent of a portable Room of Requirement is a bad idea, plotwise.

Tim's idea, that shrinking an object won't change its mass, is a good one. Sure, maybe a Shrinking Spell will let you put a grand piano in your purse, but good luck lifting it.

[OliveOil_Med]

Alright, so far I have been given a lot of reason for how shipping something would be impossible, but I am still drawing a blank as to how it would be done. Listening to all of you talk, one would think every store shelf in Diagon Alley would be bare because there is no way to ship the inventory.

So that poses the question again: how can a large quanity of materials be shipped in the wizarding world?

[Inverarity]

Alright, so far I have been given a lot of reason for how shipping something would be impossible, but I am still drawing a blank as to how it would be done. Listening to all of you talk, one would think every store shelf in Diagon Alley would be bare because there is no way to ship the inventory.

So that poses the question again: how can a large quanity of materials be shipped in the wizarding world?

By train?

The wizarding world doesn't seem to have a lot of raw materials or heavy industry -- things sold in Diagon Alley are mostly hand-crafted artifacts, books, clothes, and the like.

I suspect wizards have their own equivalent of shipping companies, which probably improvise with everything from winged horse-drawn wagons under Disillusionment Charms to Muggle shipping routes. (But shh! Don't tell the pure-blood customers that!)

[OliveOil_Med]

What I really need specifics on, though, is how paper can be shipped in order to print a newspaper, along with distribution. Maybe I just wasn't being specific enough before.

But just how much weight do you think would be realistic for an owl to carry? They do deliever packages, after all.

[Inverarity]

What I really need specifics on, though, is how paper can be shipped in order to print a newspaper, along with distribution. Maybe I just wasn't being specific enough before.

Why couldn't a wizard order paper from a Muggle paper company?

If there are some wizards who disdain anything Muggle (and like to believe that every chair, plate, ream of paper, and brick in the wizarding world is manufactured by wizards) then there are probably wizard businesses that cater to them (mostly by buying Muggle goods and "rebranding" them).

But just how much weight do you think would be realistic for an owl to carry? They do deliever packages, after all.

Are you talking about an African or European owl?

[OliveOil_Med]

Are you talking about an African or European owl?
Well, since the books take place in England, let's go with European. I think people might notice an indiginous African owl flying around Scotland in the middle of winter might draw a bit of attention.

[Tim the Enchanter]

What I really need specifics on, though, is how paper can be shipped in order to print a newspaper, along with distribution. Maybe I just wasn't being specific enough before.

But just how much weight do you think would be realistic for an owl to carry? They do deliever packages, after all.

What if the Daily Prophet makes its own paper? Perhaps they order lumber every now and then (shrunk and sent by Portkey), which is then turned to wood pulp and then paper in some workshop in the basement.

Concerning how much owls could carry, I would go by percentage of body weight rather than set weight, since owls come in all shapes and sizes.

But for an idea of what the maximum load is, the largest Eagle owls weigh up to 4.2 kg and can fly off with small animals no heavier than about 3 kg. This works out to about 71% of a large Eagle owl's body weight. Note that this kind of owl is quite large and strong, so smaller owls with less wing area (like Pigwidgeon) probably wouldn't be able to lift as high a percentage of their body mass.

Are you talking about an African or European owl?
Well, since the books take place in England, let's go with European. I think people might notice an indiginous African owl flying around Scotland in the middle of winter might draw a bit of attention.

Does 'Monty Python' ring any bells? You really should watch Monty Python and the Holy Grail - you'll find it immensely educational!

Tim the Enchanter

[Halgy]

She was able to cram lots of things into her bag with the expansion charm, but the bag still weighed the same - it thudded unusually audibly whenever it was dropped.

So, you could put a lot of things into a bag with an expansion charm on it, but I think it would be too heavy for an owl to carry.

Tim the Enchanter

I know that it doesn't make sense (logically), but there's no way that Hermione's bag weighed as much as it should. She had a large pile of books (Harry obvserved that her 'keep' pile was bigger than her 'discard' pile, and you know how many books Hermione had), plus a tent, potions, clothes, and a picture frame, not to mention other stuff.

That bag would have weighed several hundred pounds, but there was no mention of it ever being heavy from an outsiders (the carrier's) perspective. Yes, it thudded when she dropped it, but that's because the inside of the bag was susceptible to the laws of physics (weight), but the bag as a whole was not.

[Inverarity]

I know that it doesn't make sense (logically), but there's no way that Hermione's bag weighed as much as it should. She had a large pile of books (Harry obvserved that her 'keep' pile was bigger than her 'discard' pile, and you know how many books Hermione had), plus a tent, potions, clothes, and a picture frame, not to mention other stuff.

That bag would have weighed several hundred pounds, but there was no mention of it ever being heavy from an outsiders (the carrier's) perspective. Yes, it thudded when she dropped it, but that's because the inside of the bag was susceptible to the laws of physics (weight), but the bag as a whole was not.

A pile of books, a tent, clothes, potions, and a picture frame would add up, but I don't think it would weigh several hundred pounds. You're actually talking about a load no greater than what a soldier might carry in the field.

The spells on the purse might well lighten the load somewhat, or at least balance the weight, but if it had no limits, Hermione wouldn't have needed to leave some books behind. (And she might have remembered to pack food. :rolleyes: )

[OliveOil_Med]

I just looked up paper weight on Wikipedia and found a useful piece of information.

For example, a 500-sheet ream of 20# copy paper may specify "40 M". Therefore, 1000 sheets (or two reams) will weigh 40 lb (18 kg).

Okay, for the sake of the story, I'll pretend the density is the same as copy paper. Newspaper is generally a lot lighter, but Wikipedia didn't have the calculations for that.

I don't think, since this is a small paper, there would be 1000 copies. Instead, I'll put the number at a hundred. Divide by ten, and that would make it 4 pounds (1.8 kg) as a total weight. That certainly seems like a weight that an owl could carry, according to Tim's post.

So I think I will go with the idea of the un-detectable expansion charm placed on the bag, and have the papers be delievered by owl.

Thank!, everyone.

[Tim the Enchanter]

So I think I will go with the idea of the un-detectable expansion charm placed on the bag, and have the papers be delievered by owl.

Thank!, everyone.

Are these papers being delivered blank sheets for future printing or are they the completed products? If they are completed newspapers, it wouldn't make much sense to only have one owl carry all of the day's newspapers and deliver them to every subscribers by itself.

Tim the Enchanter