U.S.A. Culture and Language Help - II

[padfoot_returns]

This is the thread to ask question about American culture. You can find the first thread here (http://fanfiction.mugglenet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10464)

The last question that was asked was by Celtic_Jewel and she asked:
Hi, I was wondering, what would you call your grandparents? For instance, I call them Grandma and Grandad, but my cousins all call my Grandma Nana. In a few books, I've read of the grandfather being called 'Pop', but I'm not sure how true that is. The family is in Florida, by the way.

Any help would be amazing,
-Ema

The answers she received were:

"Pop" is usually used for your father, not your grandfather. But some people call their grandfather "Grandpop."

It's somewhat regional. Grandma/Grandpa is most common, but Gramma/Grampa is used in some areas (that's really a variant pronunciation rather than a different word, though). Grandfather/Grandmother would be very formal as a way to address your own grandparents. "Gramps" for Grandfather is also sometimes used, though it's very informal/diminutive, and only used if you can get away with being that affectionate (or disrespectful).

I know some Southerners, but not all, use "Nana" for grandmother. I don't know how common that is.

One thing you won't hear in the U.S. is "Grandmum." But sometimes "Grandmom."

But also, just like Nana is a less common used word, you might also hear Papi for their grandfather.

And if it helps, Gramma and Grampa is considered somewhat of a Midwestern or rural variant of Grandma and Grandpa. Some families even invent their own words for their grandparents.

Personally, I call my grandparents "Grandma" and "Grandpa". I have heard of grandmothers being called Nana, so that's pretty common too. "Pop" was used back in the 18-1900s, although people still use it in the deep south. Not us northerners, though.

A lot of children make up names for their grandparents, too.

Hope this helps!

~M_W

Carry on :D

xxRiham

[Rhi for HP]

Oh, and there's also Granddad. I have two sets of grandparents, so one set is Grandma/Grandpa, the other is Nana/Granddad.

[moonys-muggle]

Originally Posted by Celtic_Jewel
Hi, I was wondering, what would you call your grandparents? For instance, I call them Grandma and Grandad, but my cousins all call my Grandma Nana. In a few books, I've read of the grandfather being called 'Pop', but I'm not sure how true that is. The family is in Florida, by the way.

Any help would be amazing,
-Ema

I am on the west coast and the majority of people use Grandma and Grandpa.

[OliveOil_Med]

Ema,

Maybe if you told us what part of the U.S. you're looking into, we might be able to give you a better idea of the words you will need. We might even be able to give you some other help with regional dialect.

[Inverarity]

She said Florida.

Parts of Florida use a Southern dialect, while other parts (around the big cities, down in the Keys, etc.) are more metropolitan and use the "standard" dialect mostly heard on TV (what I call "West Coast news anchor dialect").

[Celtic_Jewel]

I've decided to go with Grandpop and Grandmom. Thanks for all the help! :)

-Ema

[OliveOil_Med]

What are some likely languages a newspaper could be translatered to in the United States? I'm thinking of creating a spell spell that, when cast over one of the American newspaper, it will translate into a different language, depending on the variation of the spell. These are the languages I have listed right now, but I want to get a good list written for the spell chart.

English
Spanish
French
German
Arabic
Chinese
Japanese
Korean
Portuguese
Italian
Danish
Norwegian
Swedish
Finnish
Russian
Romanian
Swahili
Hindi
Vietnamese
Polish
Hebrew

Can anyone think of any other likely suspects? I want to get as complete a feeling list as I can. I'll probably never use it, but I just feel secure in having a good back-reference.

[moonys-muggle]

What are some likely languages a newspaper could be translatered to in the United States? I'm thinking of creating a spell spell that, when cast over one of the American newspaper, it will translate into a different language, depending on the variation of the spell. These are the languages I have listed right now, but I want to get a good list written for the spell chart.

Can anyone think of any other likely suspects? I want to get as complete a feeling list as I can. I'll probably never use it, but I just feel secure in having a good back-reference.
This is what I have come up with so far. I will edit my post if I think of any more.

Tagalog
Chinese should be broken down into Mandarin and Cantonese.
Taiwanese
Tongan
Icelandic

Leigh

[Tim the Enchanter]

And here's an idea! How about Braille? Like the newspaper forms a bunch of little bumps for blind people to read.

Or maybe the newspaper could just talk instead...

Also, I'd like to mention some additional languages, like:

Greek
Ukrainian
Armenian
Yiddish
Urdu
Hawaiian
Farsi

Tim the Enchanter

[OliveOil_Med]

Well, let's take a look at the possible language listed so far.


English
Spanish
French
German
Arabic
Chinese (Mandarin and Cantonese)
Japanese
Korean
Portuguese
Italian
Danish
Norwegian
Swedish
Finnish
Russian
Romanian
Swahili
Hindi
Vietnamese
Polish
Hebrew
Taiwanese
Tongan
Icelandic
Tagalog
Greek
Ukrainian
Armenian
Yiddish
Urdu
Hawaiian
Farsi
Spoken Papers for the Blind



Wow, this is going to be a long list of spells to come up with! But any others out there that people can think of?

[JCCollier]

I believe the talking newspaper would be a separate spell after the translation spell (the blind person would obviously want it spoken in a language he understood). Yet if a spell can make a newspaper change its language, couldn't there just as well be a spell that makes the reader understand the language already printed?

Whenever I consider the possibility of spells of this type, I see it as a magic that is creating information or knowledge (since we all have to study to learn a new language). One of J.K. Rowling's own Principal Exceptions to Gamp's Law is supposed to be information, yet I see many stories that use plots/spells where this supposed basic wizarding world rule is contradicted. Does anyone else ever consider this, or is it just me?

[Inverarity]

Oh yes -- Rowling contradicted herself quite a lot. She laid out a lot of rules for how magic works in her world, but she ignored them whenever it was convenient for her plot.

I agree that a "universal translator" spell doesn't seem very likely. It would require an intelligent spell, and where would its knowledge of the languages to be translated come from?

I can, however, see spells that are capable of doing partial translations -- dictionary lookups, basically -- with amusing results. Think Google Translator. So maybe you can "translate" a newspaper by transfiguring all the words into the equivalent word in another language (using whatever "dictionary" the spell has available), but the results aren't going to be pretty.

[Lizzy]

Hi! I have a crazy plot bunny, and it begs the questions:

Do you have pages in the federal government (like political aides, who run errands like photocopying, message delivering and water-getting)?

Where's your main military base?

If the president was going to hold a press conference on international affairs, where would it be?

That's all I can think of at the moment. I'll maybe come back with more. :)

[Inverarity]

Do you have pages in the federal government (like political aides, who run errands like photocopying, message delivering and water-getting)?

Congressmen and Senators have pages (usually high school or college students) who work for them in Washington, D.C. Outside of Congress, they'd be called interns, not pages. Yes, most federal agencies do have internship programs for high school and college students, and mostly what they do is the sort of gopher work you are describing.

Where's your main military base?

Er, the U.S. has hundreds of military bases, in and out of the country. The main base for what? The Airborne Rangers? The Pacific Fleet? Infantry or Armored divisons? Nuclear bomber wings?


If the president was going to hold a press conference on international affairs, where would it be?


Usually the White House, though if he's traveling overseas, he'll often give press conferences wherever he is visiting.

[OliveOil_Med]

Wow, it's been a long time since we had any questions in this thread!


Do you have pages in the federal government (like political aides, who run errands like photocopying, message delivering and water-getting)?
Yes, but they're usually called aides or assistants. Actually, the people with these jobs are usually college interns, and most of the time, they aren't even paid.


Where's your main military base?
There are military bases all over the country and the world. There really isn't a main one. But I do have this link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_military_bases) listing all U.S. military bases and their locations.


If the president was going to hold a press conference on international affairs, where would it be?
If he is in Washington, it would probably be on the front steps of the White House. But if in your story, he is in another city, I can give you some other government buildings he could be at.

[Lizzy]

Okay, to the root of my plot, sort of (because it keeps changing): food and energy shortage. Do you think the States would be able to produce enough on its own to get by decently in twenty years? How much of your total food do you import, do you think? Because with the energy crisis, there's won't be as many imports/exports.

Also, global warming: how badly affected do you think you'll be by that?

And are there any prejudices remaining about the Japanese?

Oh, and thanks for the help. It was the Pentagon I was looking for, I guess that's not a base. Whoops.

Thanks.

~Lizzy

[tibi jones]

Okay, to the root of my plot, sort of (because it keeps changing): food and energy shortage. Do you think the States would be able to produce enough on its own to get by decently in twenty years? How much of your total food do you import, do you think? Because with the energy crisis, there's won't be as many imports/exports.

Also, global warming: how badly affected do you think you'll be by that?

And are there any prejudices remaining about the Japanese?

Oh, and thanks for the help. It was the Pentagon I was looking for, I guess that's not a base. Whoops.

Thanks.

~Lizzy

Without doing a lot of research, I would say the US would be capable of sustaining itself for that time period without food imports. We currently export a great deal as well. There is a lot of unused land that can be used for agriculture. Global warming has the same affect on the US as other areas. We have all climate zones and with lots of cold Polar air meeting lots of warm Gulf air, it will keep the great plains able to sustain an agriculture surge in my opinion.

Fuel resources would be stretched, but there are many areas not currently being used as a reserve. I think it plausible that without some catastrophe, we would weather the storm so to speak.

There are prejudices about everyone here. Most are not overt, much of the sentiments toward Japan are neutral at worst I would say. Many Americans find Japanese culture very interesting.

[Inverarity]

The United States has vast natural resources, and is quite capable of being self-sufficient. Of course, a food and energy shortage would hurt us like everyone else, but if it were global in scale, the U.S. would be better off than much of the world.

Global warming will affect everyone, but again, we've got a lot of land and a lot of different ecosystems. The idea of the poles melting and Florida and California being underwater is a bit exaggerated. (If the sea level does rise that much, then the entire planet is going to be hosed, and the U.S. will still suffer less than a lot of other places.)

Yes, the Pentagon is essentially a big office building. There is very little military activity that really goes on there, unless you count lots of 1-star generals fetching coffee for 3- and 4-star generals. ;)

Anti-Japanese prejudice -- it depends on what part of the country. It also kind of depends on whether you mean Japanese-Americans or Japanese-Japanese.

The coasts are more metropolitan. The East Coast and especially the West Coast have very large Asian populations (including Japanese, but also Chinese and Koreans and Vietnamese and many others). Racial tensions are usually pretty low-key, and tend to focus on things like media representation and college acceptance rates. You'll rarely hear any overt anti-Japanese (or other anti-Asian) sentiment. (Which is not to say racism doesn't exist, but it's not socially acceptable, so it tends to be more subtle.)

That's certainly not true of all parts of the U.S., though. If you go into the interior (and I'm not just talking about the Midwest or the South, but inland California or upstate New York, or anywhere away from big cities) you'll find people who by and large don't know any Asians (or often, any other non-white people), and racism tends to be much more common and freely expressed there.

The sort of prejudice that resulted in the internment camps of World War II is mostly gone, but there's still a lot of anti-Japanese sentiment typified by Michael Crichton's book (later a movie) "Rising Sun," which portrayed Japan as a sneaky alien culture intent on devious political and economic warfare against America.

That was more common in the 1980s, though, before the Japanese economy crashed and burned. Now that they're in worse shape than us, and have been for nearly two decades, people aren't making so much noise about the threat from Japan, Inc. :rolleyes:

[sorrow_of_severus]

Do you think the States would be able to produce enough [food and energy] on its own to get by decently in twenty years?
Probably, but it would be a hard adjustment. A big political issue in the U.S. is "energy independence" (the need to produce most of our energy within our own country). You here all about it every campaign season (the months leading up to the big elections that occur across the country every other November). We import most of our petroleum from other countries, namely Canada and Middle Eastern countries like Saudi Arabia.

The American states around the Gulf of Mexico produce some petroleum, and oil drilling is a major part of Alaska's economy. West Virginia is the state most famous for it's coal mining. I suppose, though, if people are suffering from the repercussions of global warming, they'd probably not want to make it worse by burning fossil fuels. There are places all over the U.S. that are good for wind. One really large site of wind energy production is the Buffalo Ridge, an area along the Minnesota-South Dakota border. Solar energy has more potential in the southern U.S. because this area gets more sunlight. There is a lot of talk about putting up miles and miles of solar panels in the largely uninhabited parts of deserts in the southwestern part of the country, like Nevada.

I have no idea how much food the U.S. imports. What pops into my mind is that grapes always seem to be from Chile, and I think I've seen apples from China. Something that's talked about more is just generally how far food travels on average from farm field to consumer's fork, something like 1,000 miles to 1,500 miles on average. People all over the country get a major portion of their fruits and vegetables from states that have longer growing seasons, like California and Florida, especially the former.

If there was a huge energy crisis and people had to stop importing a lot of food, I think Americans wouldn't starve, but it would be a huge lifestyle adjustment. We expect to have any food that we want at any time of the year. People, especially in the colder climates of the northern U.S., would have to get used to having a lot more of things in the winter that store well, like potatoes and squash, and a lot less of things like Californian strawberries and Chilean grapes.

Remember, the U.S. takes up a significant portion of a continent, unlike any European country, where I'm assuming you're from. If there was limited fuel, people probably wouldn't have the energy import things or even send them across the country. People would start eating and doing things (like vacations) locally and regionally instead of internationally and nationally.

Are there any prejudices remaining about the Japanese?
Not that I'm aware of. Everything I've read and heard seems to express shame over our treatment of Japanese Americans during World War II.

If the president was going to hold a press conference on international affairs, where would it be?
What to you mean by "conference"? If you mean press conference, that would probably be at the White House. If the weather were nice, it might be in the White House Rose Garden.

If you mean summit/meeting with foreign leaders, I'm not sure. It might be in Washington, D.C., or it might be somewhere else like the presidential retreat, Camp David.



Have I overwhelmed you with all this information yet? :rolleyes:

[harryginny4eva61]

Do you think the States would be able to produce enough on its own to get by decently in twenty years? How much of your total food do you import, do you think? Because with the energy crisis, there's won't be as many imports/exports.
I don't really know much about the import/export bit, but I think the U.S could likely get through with all their own food. We've got steel plants and such; in fact, there's a large one in Buffalo. There's plenty of oranges in Florida, apples in New York, and grain and wheat I think are grown in the plains area. there's some corn in rural areas too.
Also, global warming: how badly affected do you think you'll be by that?
To be honest, I don't find global warming a huge pollution thing, just natural. But we are using wind energy, there's tons of windmills. Solar energy is more isolated. The Niagara Falls give a lot of water energy to New York too.
And are there any prejudices remaining about the Japanese?
No, like sorrow_of_severus said, we're pretty ashamed about it.

[sorrow_of_severus]

We've got steel plants and such; in fact, there's a large one in Buffalo
Errr, not really. If we're talking about the same Buffalo, the Buffalo in New York state, it's called Bethlehem Steel and it closed decades ago. Buffalo's economy was never the same after the Great Depression, but it drastically hurt an city's economy that was already failing.

I suppose Bethlehem Steel could potentially be reopened, but it's been abandoned and vandalized for years. It would take a lot of work to get it fixed up and up and running. Right now, the only thing going on at the Bethlehem Steel property is an expanding wind farm, currently at eight wind turbines with more slated to go in. These wind turbines take advantage of the strong winds coming off Lake Erie. Buffalo's actually a windier city than "The Windy City", Chicago.

[Halgy]

Over the next ten years, I think (or rather hope) that the United States will become much more energy independent. With the recent pushes, I wouldn't be too surprised if we have enough wind/solar/hydroelectric energy to sustain ourselves (or rather to supplement the coal/oil we ourselves produce). By then, electric cars will be quite mainstream and thus the need for petroleum is much less needed. Still, it might be tight, but we'd get through it.

As for food, we're fine. We export quite a lot of grain and such; the only stuff we import is fruits and such that can't be grown in the US. If pressed, we could grow enough of everything to keep everyone happy. However, one note: we can't grow coco beans in the US ('cept in Hawaii, I guess), so chocolate would be quite rare. Might be a good side note in your story.

The president speaks lots of places, so you can really have him speak anywhere that the president could be (no press conferences on the moon). However, he most commonly he speaks from the White House or the rose garden, as others have said.

[Inverarity]

Over the next ten years, I think (or rather hope) that the United States will become much more energy independent. With the recent pushes, I wouldn't be too surprised if we have enough wind/solar/hydroelectric energy to sustain ourselves (or rather to supplement the coal/oil we ourselves produce). By then, electric cars will be quite mainstream and thus the need for petroleum is much less needed.

In ten years? Not a chance.


As for food, we're fine. We export quite a lot of grain and such; the only stuff we import is fruits and such that can't be grown in the US. If pressed, we could grow enough of everything to keep everyone happy. However, one note: we can't grow coco beans in the US ('cept in Hawaii, I guess), so chocolate would be quite rare. Might be a good side note in your story.


A lot of "luxury foods" would become rare. Yes, the U.S. could certainly feed itself, but the vast selection of produce, meat, coffee, etc., that Americans are used to seeing in every supermarket and convenience store would disappear.

[emck]

So basically, I have no idea how schools, esp. junior schools, in America work. I need details.

Firstly, what age must you be to start school? Is there a certain date that you have to turn that age by? (I.E. here, you have to turn six before the 31st of July to start grade one)

Do you have a mandatory/volantary prep or preschool year?

I also don't really get the whole 'middle school' thing. Explain, please.

How old are you when you graduate?

And finally, if someone was born in mid-September, 1991, what year would they be in now?

I think that might be all, for now. Thanks!

[Inverarity]

Firstly, what age must you be to start school? Is there a certain date that you have to turn that age by? (I.E. here, you have to turn six before the 31st of July to start grade one)

Kindergarten is optional, but most kids start there, usually at age five or six. Age requirements vary somewhat by state and district; there is no universal rule.

The following year, 1st grade (age 6-7), is when mandatory primary school education begins.

Do you have a mandatory/volantary prep or preschool year?

See above. Almost everyone goes to kindergarten, and it's usually free, but it's not mandatory.

I also don't really get the whole 'middle school' thing. Explain, please.

Middle school consists of the grades between elementary school and high school (also called "Jr. High School" in a few places, like California, but "middle school" is more common.)

But it can be confusing, because exactly what grades constitute middle school also varies by state and by district.

Grades 1-5 are always elementary school.
Some middle schools start at grade 6, some at 7 or 8.
High school usually starts at grades 9 or 10.

So, depending on the division in your particular school district, it could look like any of the following:

Elementary school: 1-6
Middle school: 7-8
High school: 9-12

Elementary school: 1-6
Middle school: 7-9
High school: 10-12

Elementary school: 1-5
Middle school: 6-8
High school: 9-12

There are probably other permutations that exist.

Usually elementary schools, middle schools, and high schools are on three separate campuses, but sometimes (in smaller districts) the middle school shares a campus with either elementary school (in which case the middle schoolers tend to bully the younger kids) or high school (in which case they tend to get bullied by the older kids).

How old are you when you graduate?

17 or 18. Which means yes, some high school students are legal adults and can write their own excuse notes for missing class.

And finally, if someone was born in mid-September, 1991, what year would they be in now?

Probably a senior (12th grade), but possibly a junior (11th grade).

[OliveOil_Med]

Do you have a mandatory/volantary prep or preschool year?
Kindergarten is when mandatory schooling starts, but before that, there is what is call preschool or pre-k (usually for children who are three or four). This type of school is almost always private, sometimes run as small businesses or out of peoples own homes. Little kid here sing songs, learn to count to ten, color, and cut paper. It's not an especially strenuous time.

I also don't really get the whole 'middle school' thing. Explain, please.
Middle school is somewhat similar to secondary school. It's also called junior high.

Basically, the idea of it is if you mix the twelve-year-olds in with the eighteen-year-olds, there won't be any twelve-year-old left by Christmas. So, they have they own smaller school that they go to until they're older and people won't feel as guilty when they are thrown to the wolves.

My towns school system worked like this.
Elementary School
K-6

Middle School
7-8

High School
9-12

But also, like Inverarity said, it depends on the district. A good plan may be to look up a few school websites to get a better idea.

[A.H.]

I also don't really get the whole 'middle school' thing. Explain, please.

Twas explained pretty thoroughly above me, but in some states, the division gets even more complicated and weird. When I was in fourth grade, I went to an intermediate school. Which was grades four through six. So, in that town there was

Preschool (Don't even remember the ages for this)
Elementary 1-3
Intermediate 4-6
Middle/Jr. High 7-8
High School 9-12

But that's most likely one of only a very few towns that have an Intermediate School. It was done like that in the first place because the population rose, the Middle school got too many students, and the school wasn't big enough to house all the students coming in. So they made another one. :D

/.2

-Ari-

[thegirloverhere]

I also don't really get the whole 'middle school' thing. Explain, please.

In my area, a lot of schools start middle school in 5th grade, so the three schools are divided into four years.

Ie:

Elementary/Lower School - 1st grade through 4th grade

Middle School - 5th through 8th

High School - 9th through 12th

That way makes the most sense to me, though I've seen it devided up pretty much every way. Though, a lot of private schools start high school in 8th grade, I've found, if it is ONLY a high school (there's no middle school attached) so that kids can get used to the curriculum and be prepared for the "real" beginning of high school in 9th grade.

Also, before PreKindergarten and Kindergarter some places have "nursery school" for two year olds. All three of those years are voluntary.

[greennotebook]

I'm going to try to avoid adding too much to the bewildering array of schooling options laid out ahead of my post, but I will say that private schools make things even more complicated. I went to a private pre-K through 8th grade school before going to a 9-12 high school. My boyfriend went to private school that took students from 6-12.

I just wanted to explain that the reason you end up with so much differentiation is that educational law is mostly decided on a state level. Each of the fifty states gets to make its own decisions about regulations and whatnot. Most states also leave a lot of decisions to individual districts. We tend to really emphasize local government in the US....

[fg_weasley]

I also don't really get the whole 'middle school' thing. Explain, please.

Most middle schools I've been to/know about either start in 6th or 7th grade and go through 8th. I went to two middle schools, only because we moved after 6th grade, but both of those middle schools were 6th-8th. Also, like Ari said, the city I live in now split the elementary schools as well into one school for K-2nd and another for 3rd-5th.

Basically, it really depends on where you are in the US as to how the schools are broken up. Generally, though, I think its pretty much as it has been explained above. I would, like Molly said, look up certain districts and schools to get a better idea.

Also, I wanted to clarify that Kindergarten is mandatory and starts around age five; pre-school, which is before Kindergarten, is not mandatory, though it is highly suggested.

And finally, if someone was born in mid-September, 1991, what year would they be in now?
If you're thinking mid September, I would guess a junior, though it is possible that they just made the cut to be a senior. I have a friend who was born on September 15th, though, and she's a senior.

I guess I didn't add much to what you've already been told, but I wanted to add my two cents.

[hugs]

xox
nikki :D

[Inverarity]

Also, I wanted to clarify that Kindergarten is mandatory and starts around age five; pre-school, which is before Kindergarten, is not mandatory, though it is highly suggested.


Kindergarten is not mandatory in all states. Some states require kindergarten attendance, but most do not (though it's encouraged in all states, and most states require school districts to offer it).

[A.H.]

Kindergarten is not mandatory in all states. Some states require kindergarten attendance, but most do not (though it's encouraged in all states, and most states require school districts to offer it).

Hmm... Well, I can't speak for states outside of the south, but being as I've lived in just about all of the states in the southern region (I really need to get out of here soon!) I can say that down here, they do. Alabama, Tennessee, Arkansas, Florida, Texas (etc)--every state I've lived in required Kindergarten.

Though I don't dispute your point; there are some states that don't require it. I can see why, too. I barely remember those years but it seems like we studied the exact same curriculum year after year (and even into middle school). Though, that's most likely due to the schools and their limited curriculum rather than the system in general. In Alabama the amount of knowledge needed for GED (General Education Development/alternative to schooling) is far more difficult than an actual high school diploma, and some colleges are more willing to take on GED diplomas than "normal" diplomas.

It's a weird and corrupted system. If advertising were allowed I'd go off on a tangent about it and start advertising the online program that my mother works for, but I won't, and I'll just leave it at that. :D

-Ari-

[beccleroo]

School systems are crazy where I live, kindergarten is a must, but you can go public, private, or even homeschool for it, and the cut off date is usually September 1 but that is even negotiable if the kid is ready sooner. Kindergarten can be full day, half-day, twice a week, it just depends on the place. Most private pre-schools also offer kindergarten. My school district has schools set up like this:
Elementary: K-4
Intermediate: 5-6
Junior High: 7-8
Ninth Grade Center
Senior High: 10-12
and everyone thinks it is totally nuts.
Most places, however, has elementary through fifth, junior high/middle school/intermediate from 6-8, and high school from 9-12. When you say jr. high, or middle school, or intermediate school, most people think of 6-8 (11 through 14 year olds usually).
Most kids graduate around 18, some are 17 and some are even 19.
A '91 baby would most likely be a senior, with a small chance of a junior if born after September 1.
Hope this helps.

[tibi jones]

And to add another wrinkle, in some rural areas they have one school house with K-12 still to this day. Others may be bussed a few hours away to standard schools as explained above. When you get into private (or UK Public?) schools, they can vary widely, especially if they are boarding schools or military prep schools as an example.

[Halgy]

Many of the rules for American schools vary by location, so I'll give you mine, just for a bit of variety. I went to a very small school (~200 kids K-12) in the Midwest.

Firstly, what age must you be to start school? Is there a certain date that you have to turn that age by? (I.E. here, you have to turn six before the 31st of July to start grade one)

I started Kindergarten when I was 5, but some start when the are 6; it is up to the parents. There was a kid in the grade below me who has my exact same birthday, for instance.

Do you have a mandatory/volantary prep or preschool year?
Kindergarten was required.


I also don't really get the whole 'middle school' thing. Explain, please.
Middle school was used to describe the 7th and 8th grade years. Basically it was like this:

In elementary (k-6), all of the kids in a grade were put into one classroom and we had one teacher for all of our subjects. We always had the same desks and we got to do little-kid things like recess (go outside and play a couple times a day).

In high school (9-12), we went to different rooms and had different teachers for each subject. At the end of the year previous, we got to pick our own schedule of classes to take. Some classes were required and all kids had to take them (e.g. English). Other classes (e.g. calculus, physics) were up to the discretion of the student; while there were requirements (e.g. 4 math classes and 3 science classes in the four years), it was up to the student to pick which classes he wanted. Also, there was much more freedom (my senior (12th grade) year, seniors could leave if they didn't have a class that period).

Middle school, therefore, was the time between (7-8). While we had classes in different rooms like H.S., we did not get to choose our own classes. It was pretty much just a time to get us used to the way high school worked.

How old are you when you graduate?
I was 18 (barely).

And finally, if someone was born in mid-September, 1991, what year would they be in now?
They would probably be going into grade 12 this coming fall.

[OliveOil_Med]

Also, since we are on the subject of school, you should also note the ridiculously long summer breaks: three solid months!

In my hometown, summer break started on the last day of May and we weren't back in school until the day after American Labor Day, which is about a week into September. By the time school does start up again, kids are actually happy to go, because they are sick of having nothing to do!

[fg_weasley]

Kindergarten is not mandatory in all states. Some states require kindergarten attendance, but most do not (though it's encouraged in all states, and most states require school districts to offer it).

In most states, however, you're likely to find that it IS mandatory, or at least that most children attend, especially now. Granted, I have not been to every state, nor have I really researched it, and I know its not a must in every single state ... but I think its a safe bet that most children go to kindergarten. Almost every post here has said that wherever they live kindergarten is a must. I will not be surprised when it is mandatory throughout the country in a few years. So, if writing a fic in which a character is around that age, I think it would be best to have them attend kindergarten.

However, by all means, the author can check up on this in whatever state the fic going to take place; that would be what a well-researched author would do, just to be absolutely certain.

I barely remember those years but it seems like we studied the exact same curriculum year after year (and even into middle school).

I remember fingerpainting. LOL. Really, though, I think the point of kindergarten as well as preschool is so that children go to first grade and so on having already learned the basics so they make connections faster. I know that I learned to read very quickly because I started in preschool and kindergarten. I imagine that they still teach things slowly because not everyone attends preschool or kindergarten, and thus some children take a little longer to get to the same place simply because they've had less exposure. Another reason I will not be surprised if both kindergarten and preschool are someday mandatory every where.

Also, since we are on the subject of school, you should also note the ridiculously long summer breaks: three solid months!

In my hometown, summer break started on the last day of May and we weren't back in school until the day after American Labor Day, which is about a week into September.

This I think depends as well, not only on the state, but on the school district. I wish my summer was three whole months! I get out of school around mid-June, and school starts again at the very end of August. My friends that go to school just one city over in another district get out a whole week later than I do. So ... another area thing that should be double-checked.

[Halgy]

Also, since we are on the subject of school, you should also note the ridiculously long summer breaks: three solid months!

In my hometown, summer break started on the last day of May and we weren't back in school until the day after American Labor Day, which is about a week into September. By the time school does start up again, kids are actually happy to go, because they are sick of having nothing to do!

However, it should be noted that the other breaks aren't long at all. I had two weeks off for Christmas and four days off for Easter, and perhaps the odd Friday or Monday off besides that. But yeah, summer break was awesome, before I had to start working during it.

[Jen]

I think the break up between elementary, middle, and high school, along with the mandatory Kindergarten/Pre-Kindergarten, and the lengths of the hollidays really all depend on which state you live in, which district you belong to, and what sort of inclimate weather days you've had during the year.

For example, I live in Oklahoma, so all of my answers will be based off of the school system I attend in Oklahoma.

Where I live, schooling starts out with nursery school for all children between the ages of three and four. (This type of schooling is optional, and usually conducted by a private business owner, or a daycare.) Pre-K is also optional, though highly, highly recommended for children between the ages of four and five. Kindergarten is mandatory for children aged five, and required to move on to either transitional first (T1) or first grade. Elementary school is grades Kindergarten through fifth; middle sixth through eighth, and high ninth through twelfth.

As for the age restrictions starting school: my younger sister was born in November of 2000. She started Pre-K in August of 2004, and is one of the oldest in her class, because the age cut-off was September 1st. Had she been born just a few months earlier, she could've started Pre-K in August of 2003, and been one of the youngest.

The only difference between elementary and middle school is, as Halgy said, the moving of classes. In elemetary, at the beginning of each school year, you are assigned a teacher and a class. You stay with that teacher, in the same classroom, until the end of the year. At the beginning of the next year, you are assigned a different teacher and a different class, and so on. In middle school, however, you are assigned to seven different teachers and seven different classes. You have a class schedule that you follow each day. Each class period is between forty-five and fifty-five minutes long, with a break for lunch. (i.e., the schedule that I followed for the entire year was First Hour: Reading; Second Hour: Science; Third Hour: Art; Fourth Hour: English; Fifth Hour: Algebra I; Lunch; Sixth Hour: Office Worker; and Seventh Hour: US History and Government.) You homeroom class can either be first hour or seventh (for me it was seventh, but it most places, it's first). Each year you move up a grade, your schedule and teachers change. This is the same concept as high school, only in middle school, your courses are pre-selected (save for your two electives), and in high school, you can pretty much pick what classes you take which years (though there are requirements: 3 math and science classes, 4 english classes, and so on).

However, this is not set in stone. One of the elementary schools where I live has their fifth grade students only rotate classes, to prepare them for their years in middle and high school. And private schools are pretty much free to function however they want. Our christian schools follow the same format as the public school system, but one of the schools in one of our suburbs is broken up into K-8 being in one building and 9-12 being in another, both on the same campus.

In regards to holiday breaks: Our school year starts on the third Friday of August (why they start on a Friday, I have no idea). We get a week off the third week of October for fall break, and Christmas break runs from the Monday before Christmas until the Monday after New Year's Day. We have the third week of March off for spring break, and have the Friday before Easter and the Monday after Easter set aside as inclimate weather days. (Roughly translated, if we have no snow days or other bad weather days, we get those two days off around Easter; If we do have bad weather, then we don't get those days off because we use them to make up for the days we missed during the winter. If we have a really bad winter and miss more than two days--which has happened before, though it's very rare--we either make them up in Saturday school, which is just as the name implies: a full school day on Saturday, or run later into the summer.) We usually end the school year on the third Friday of May, which leaves...around eight and a half weeks of summer break, give or take a few days.

That said, our school board is free to dictate our school years as they wish. It is left entirely up to the board as to how long our breaks are. The state has a manditory setting of 170 school days per year, but how we break them up is up to the school district and the school board.

Whew! That was a lot! Hope I cleared some things up, and if you have any more questions, feel free to PM me. Also, it might be good to concentrate on the area where your story is set, and to find someone who lives near that area to help you out.

--Jen

[welshdevondragon]

Hello,

I was just wondering if the phrase "he looks like butter wouldn't melt in his mouth" is something that Americans say. I want a 19 year old New Yorker at uni in Britain in 1999 to say it. Whilst I've asked a few American friends about this they've all been living in Britain for a few years now and are unsure whether they knew what this phrase meant prior to coming here or not.

Basically would it sound odd/ jarring to have an american say "he looks like butter wouldn't melt in his mouth"?

Any help would be great! Thanks, Alex

[Inverarity]

Hello,

I was just wondering if the phrase "he looks like butter wouldn't melt in his mouth" is something that Americans say. I want a 19 year old New Yorker at uni in Britain in 1999 to say it. Whilst I've asked a few American friends about this they've all been living in Britain for a few years now and are unsure whether they knew what this phrase meant prior to coming here or not.

Basically would it sound odd/ jarring to have an american say "he looks like butter wouldn't melt in his mouth"?

Any help would be great! Thanks, Alex

That's a pretty old expression. (According to my friend Google, it dates back to at least 1530.) It's not unknown in the U.S., but I don't think I've ever heard anyone actually use it in conversation, and I think it would sound awfully old-fashioned. So a teenager from New York? Not likely, unless s/he is the sort who likes to use idioms like that (and sound a bit archaic/pretentious).

[Mina]

Hello,

I was just wondering if the phrase "he looks like butter wouldn't melt in his mouth" is something that Americans say. I want a 19 year old New Yorker at uni in Britain in 1999 to say it. Whilst I've asked a few American friends about this they've all been living in Britain for a few years now and are unsure whether they knew what this phrase meant prior to coming here or not.

Basically would it sound odd/ jarring to have an american say "he looks like butter wouldn't melt in his mouth"?

Any help would be great! Thanks, Alex
That's so funny that you ask that, because for some reason one moment that sticks in my mind of the entire Sopranos series is when Tony says to Carmella "You act like buttah wouldn't melt in your mouth."

So actually it is vaguely plausible that a '99 New Yorker would say that, even if she was only 19. I'm from northern New Jersey, and while I can't recall when I first became familiar with the expression, and I have to say it's hardly a commonly used expression around here, people would have knowledge of it, and might use it on occasion - especially, perhaps, in those stressful situations when one casts out for a phrase and comes up with something a little odd. I don't think it would be jarring if written well. I might not be the best source though, as my love for The Sopranos and weirdly selective memory has created a bizarre attachment to that phrase.

[OliveOil_Med]

I agree. This seems like a very odd expression, and it is one I have never heard. It actually almost sounds like something that would be said in Newsies: fake New York, I mean.

[welshdevondragon]

Thanks Molly, Inverarity and Mina.

So it's pretty unheard of BUT the character is prentious and he is also obsessed with The Sopranos! However being in 1999 he has, like me (not because of time issues because I can't afford the box set :( yet:) ), only watched the first series.

I can't remember Tony shouting that and a quick google search came up with this page rather than a listing in a quotation website. I know it's a long shot but Mina you don't by any chance know what series it was from?

[OliveOil_Med]

All the same, I have heard absolutly no one say this expression ever ever (not even on The Sophranos). It almost sounds like something people would say in the twenties.

Maybe what you found was something said by a character who tends to say rather odd things. But I have to tell you, television is not always the best picture of any culture. We Americans have learned this quite well from watching all that British television we see in an effort to write better Harry Potter stories.

[Halgy]

I'm American, and I've never heard that phrase. The first Google result was a UK site (http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/81900.html), so I'm guessing it's from there.

Even looking at the definition, I can't think of an equivalent phrase at the moment. Hopefully some other Americans can help.

[welshdevondragon]

Thanks Molly, but when I asked Mina (or anyone else who knows) that I meant that if it is a quotation from series 1 then he can be consciously quoting The Sopranos, rather than using a phrase that sounds really awkward for an American to say.

Sorry if that was unclear :)

[Inverarity]

I'm American, and I have heard the expression -- it's not exclusively British. However, because it's a very old idiom, it's just not used very often in everyday conversation. It's more likely to be seen in writing, and I imagine that older people (who are more likely to use classical references and idioms in their speech) would be more likely to use it. It may also be a regional thing; I'm no expert on New Jersey dialects, but perhaps it's more common there.

In other words, if you really want to have an American use that expression, you can. But if it's a teenager, he's going to sound a bit odd.

Kind of like, "You could have knocked me over with a feather." Is it a known idiom? Yes. Are teenagers likely to use it? Probably not.

[Mina]

I can't remember what series Tony says that in, but, unfortunately, it definitely isn't the first, as the plotline that scene is part of doesn't come about until around the fifth series.

If the characters is obsessed with The Sopranos and from New York, though, perhaps he would know enough to guess at things Tony would say? Not that he's saying something Tony will say (i.e. predicting the future), but that he's saying something Tony would say. While the expression might not be indicative of the mafia, the New York metro area, or 1999, I do think it's in-character for Tony, so maybe when your character says it, he's making an effort to channel Tony Soprano, and in doing so happens to use a phrase that will eventually be scripted into the show (and then he can feel very pleased with himself when he sees it a few years down the line).

It's a stretch, but maybe if you mean to use the phrase in a scene where the character's trying to be intimidating or assertive, you could get away with it. Well, I'm not really being objective as now I want you to get away with it.

At any rate, as Inveraity said, you can have him say it, but he'll sound a bit odd. I think the heat-of-the-moment factor will help - one wouldn't use it if given time to think clearly and rationally, but people tend to talk a little funny when they're, say, in a passionate argument.

[OliveOil_Med]

Yeah, I even wonder if The Sophranos even exists in the Potterverse.

Either way, I would wonder if anyone in the wizarding world even watches HBO...or Cinemax, or whatever channel The Sophranos was on. If they were Muggles, that might be something to consider, but I really don't think most wizards have access to television. I'm pretty sure none of the Weasley children never saw television, and you know how obsessive Mr. Weasley was about Muggle devices.

[indigo_mouse]

"Butter wouldn't melt in his mouth" is a phrase I associate with the WWII generation - my mother would say it (Canadian) , and so would my mother in law (American). It goes along with such phrases as "smiling like a cat in cream" and "letting the fox in the henhouse". Maybe it is more rural? I'm not a big Soprano's fan, so I can't speak to that.

I used a variation of the phrase "if wishes were horses beggars would ride" (in the HP universe that would be "if wishes were thestrals beggars would fly"). My beta reader, who is in her teens didn't pick up on the reference, although her parents apparently did when she asked them.

Its not a very modern phrase, but the HP universe is not a very modern universe, is it?

[Vault713]

There really isn't any set school system in America so it gets complicated

Firstly, what age must you be to start school? Is there a certain date that you have to turn that age by? (I.E. here, you have to turn six before the 31st of July to start grade one)

most students start in Kindergarten which you start when you are 5 or 6. There is a cut off date but it's different depending on where you live. However almost all elementary schools offer it.

Do you have a mandatory/volantary prep or preschool year?
Like I said most students start with Kindergarten which is mandatory only in some places. Also kids can go to PreK which would help get them ready for Kindergarten but it is completely voluntary.

I also don't really get the whole 'middle school' thing. Explain, please.
Middle School a.k.a. Jr. High is different everywhere you turn the most common set up is
Elementary- K-5
Middle- 6-8
High-9-12

or

Elementary-K-6
Jr. High- 7-8
High-9-12

but there are many, many differentiations of this

How old are you when you graduate?
typically 18



hope this sums everything up

[Vault713]

I don't know the origin of the phrase however I think it would definitely stick out in a modern day conversation.