Wizarding Divorces?

[Hermione_Rocks]

Do you think wizards/witches would file for divorces, like Muggles? Or if they wanted to seperate, would they just sort of . . . move apart, or something? I mean, I'm sure they have marriages that don't work out sometimes, it's just hard to imagine them doing something so . . . Muggle-like. :/ Thanks to any who help.

[Ryan The Wizard]

Well, in HP's world, which we are to imagine is a perfect world with love coming out of the yin-yang. I think in the Wizarding World, with the way that they phrased Bill and Fleur's service in DH, that the wizards are bonded for eternity.

Although if they really hated each other then I'm sure one of them would leave. I don't think a "divorce" is what they would use.

[cmwinters]

This gets back on the whole idea that Jo is creating an idyllic world wherein your first love is your soulmate and you are together for life, no matter how woefully unrealistic that is.

But no, we have no examples of Wizarding divorces. The closest thing we have is Blaise Zabini's mother, who was married seven times to very wealthy men, and each of her husbands died mysterious deaths, leaving her a lot of gold.

You can probably go either way with this, so long as you don't make it like, everyone.

In fact, you could probably have someone really wanting/needing a divorce, and going to desperate measures to get it (trying to overturn the law, getting one done in the Muggle world, whatever).

Depending on who your characters are and what you are trying to accomplish, you could resort to some very unsavory behaviour. (Like using the Imperius . . .)

[Cheshlin]

Because things can change for people, I would think that divorce is a possibility. I don't think it happens quite as often as in the Muggle world, but I wouldn't discount it happening at all. We know that there are spells that can influence how people act and such. If someone were to enter a marriage because of an Imperius Curse, Love Potions, ect. I would think there is a way to get out of them.

We don't have any evidence of divorces, but the Wizarding World does seem to act a little more old-fashioned. That is why I think it is few and far between for divorces. I would look at how people thought of divorce 100 years ago. It was a scandolous thing for a divorce in those days, so I think that is how the wizarding world would approach it.

Cyns

[Pepper Imp]

DH SPOILERS BELOW!
Do we still need these?

I'm not sure how much help that this will be to you, but Cyns brought up a good points about entering marriage under the Imperius Curse or under the influence of a Love Potion.

Didn't Tom Riddle Senior leave Merope Gaunt because he was intoxicated at the time of marriage (i.e. had been slipped a Love Potion)? I think that that would indicate the marriage did crumble through all wizarding relationships, though I agree with Cyns. The wizarding world does seem a lttle behind on most things, so I think their views on divorce and marriage would be slightly behind as well.

And didn't Remus consider leaving Tonks and Teddy? I don't have the book on me right now, but I think that he had definately considered it.

Just my two knuts, though. :)

[Stubbornly_appeared]

I dunno, I assume it would be the same as Muggledom (but a little old fashioned, as said) but most people don't divorce, they just stick it through (in the case of people like Narcissa Malfoy and such) or leave (Lupin?). Or, your spouse just happens to die mysteriously after things take a wrong turn, leaving you with loads of gold (Blaise Zabini's mum).

:) A Sickle for your thoughts.

-Stubby

[mrsmcclnt]

:) A Sickle for your thoughts.

Here's a thought (takes the Sickle):

Maybe marriage vows in the wiziarding world works more along the lines of an unbreakable vow. Maybe that's why we see more couples sticking through things like the Malfoys or why some marriages end under mysterious circumstances like Blaise Zabini's mother.

It could be that some of the dark wiziarding families use this ploy in order to secure their pureblood ties (or in Zabini mother's case, her wealth). Which is why we see some being forced to marry their cousins.

But other wiziarding families, like the Weasley's, would not stoop to such levels cause they feel that true love would concur all.

[Gonz]

We do have one canon example of a divorce in the Thomas family. Dean said his father walked out on his mother when he was very young. While Dean doesn't know he was a wizard, we do. Though since his wife was a muggle I would suspect it was all done through Muggle means. Continuing with that thought I would suspect that there would actually be few number of divorces or seperation in Muggle and Wizard families. Love can sometimes prevail, but those marriages add a couple very difficult factors to normal family life, and I can see it becoming too much for the couple.

On the opposite end, the strict Pureblooded marriages are probably tough it through if there are problems, because your options are fairly limited if you must marry a Pureblood. But I won't assume that all Pureblood marraiges are unhappy though. The books establish that the Malfoys do truly love each other.

As for the rest, I would say they happen. Most likely some of the kids at Hogwarts have divorced parents, we just weren't informed. Remember Jo is divorced, she knows that sometimes it happens. She hasn't been held back on death in the Wizarding World, why would she with divorce?

[Marauderette]

I have a question. If a pureblood wizards and witches like, married their cousins like it is said, would theystill be cousins if they got divorced? Stupid question, I know.

[Pepper Imp]

Yes, I think so, since marriage is legal and in documents rather than blood.

/end extremely short post

[cmwinters]

Maybe marriage vows in the wiziarding world works more along the lines of an unbreakable vow. Maybe that's why we see more couples sticking through things like the Malfoys or why some marriages end under mysterious circumstances like Blaise Zabini's mother.

It could be that some of the dark wiziarding families use this ploy in order to secure their pureblood ties (or in Zabini mother's case, her wealth). Which is why we see some being forced to marry their cousins.

But other wiziarding families, like the Weasley's, would not stoop to such levels cause they feel that true love would concur all.

So you're saying that it's not an officially sanctioned method of matrimony? Then where would they be going to get their vows performed, and what prevents the ones like the Weasleys from getting divorced?

Marauderette, yes, they'd still be cousins.

[mrsmcclnt]

So you're saying that it's not an officially sanctioned method of matrimony? Then where would they be going to get their vows performed, and what prevents the ones like the Weasleys from getting divorced?

It would be a sanctioned matrimony, but instead of traditional wedding vows, they would use an unbreakable vow to seal the union. Maybe a minister close to the family would perform it in a smiliar way that Bellatrix bound Snape to his unbreakable vow to Narcissia in HBP.

And as I stated before, this would be something that some of the darker wiziarding families would use to secure their pureblood ties. This may be the reason why we see some members of the Blacks marrying within their family or why Blaise's mother's husbands die a mysterious death.

Other families, like the Weasleys, would not use such a ploy in their vows cause they believe in true love and how true love conquers all.

And since it's true love, you don't hear much about divorces in their family. But on the flip side, you don't hear about divorces coming from the Blacks either if they were using the unbreakable vows to bind the marriages within the family

[cmwinters]

Yeah, I got all that, but not everybody has "true love", so what about those that don't have "true love", but don't make the vow? Why aren't *they* getting divorced?

[mrsmcclnt]

They would have just left or walk out. Maybe marriages in the wiziarding world works in the way like that old magic that bonded Harry to Privet drive.

DH's Chapter 4: THE SEVEN POTTERS "Now, your mother's charm will only break under two conditions: when you come of age, or" - Moody gestured around the pristine kitchen- "you no longer call this place home."


Hagrid's mother just left him and her husband behind. But he had said that she wasn't the nurturing type. So she couldn't have been a very loving wife. So she left.

There may be some kind of charm that is used in a wiziarding wedding ceremony (not like an unbreakable vow). In instances where the love is no longer present in the marriage, or someone doesn't want to be married anymore, then the charm breaks and the two are free to separate from the union.

So instead of a Muggle-like divorce, a person just leaves cause the charm is not present in the marriage to hold them together (since there is no mutual love in the marriage).

[MaiaMadness]

So instead of a Muggle-like divorce, a person just leaves cause the charm is not present in the marriage to hold them together (since there is no mutual love in the marriage).

Sounds plausible enough, but what about things like deviding common assets etc? Child custody? Just because you're unhappy in a marriage doesn't mean that you'd leave your entire life behind. If two people are fighting all the time and can't agree about anything, it wouldn't be as simple as just walking out anyway.

[mrsmcclnt]

Sounds plausible enough, but what about things like deviding common assets etc? Child custody? Just because you're unhappy in a marriage doesn't mean that you'd leave your entire life behind. If two people are fighting all the time and can't agree about anything, it wouldn't be as simple as just walking out anyway.

Then the law would apply in cases where there's no abandonment in the marriage. They do have a legal system in place, so in cases where the families assets needed to be divided or custody needs to be agreed upon, then some sort of family law would step in to hear these matters.

There maybe some assets that couldn't be separated due to some family ties. For example: Kreecher couldn't be passed on to anyone since he was bound to the House of Black. Sirius was the last Black descendant, so when he died all the family possession (including Kreecher) were passed down to Harry, Sirius' sole heir in his will.

So in those cases, when it comes to certain family heirlooms, those would be given back to the possessor who has the closets family ties to it. At least that's my theory.

[hogwartsduchess]

We do have one canon example of a divorce in the Thomas family. Dean said his father walked out on his mother when he was very young. While Dean doesn't know he was a wizard, we do. Though since his wife was a muggle I would suspect it was all done through Muggle means.


Actually, Dean and his mother believe that his father left them, but I was under the impression from an interview JKR gave that Dean's father had not actually walked out on his family, that he was murdered by Death Eaters, and that it was removed as unnecessary back-story from CoS, since she decided to focus more on Neville's background in future books - seeing it as more relevant to the plot. Given that, Dean's father 'walking out' on his family is not a good example of a wizarding divorce.

Bonded for life, was, I believe the term used in DH for Bill and Fleur's wedding ceremony, and while it may be just a flowery bit of language, like 'Until death do us part', the simple fact is that the community as a whole takes vows much more seriously than the Muggle world we know. While one might vow to love, honor and cherish one's husband, seeking no others as long as you both shall live, one may not follow through with that, in the same way that a friend might ask one to promise to help them do something but one back out.

I think that the traditional marriage ceremony that we witnessed in DH is more of a 'Vow' in the Wizarding sense of the word, as opposed to the Muggle terminology, and that 'bonded for life' means that as long as either of you lives, you will not be able to remarry. It doesn't mean you have to live together, but in the eyes of the Ministry, you are bonded for life - which, as mrsmcclnt said, could be the reason for Blaise Zabini's mother's multiple husbands and Narcissa and Bellatrix sticking out their marriages. I think DH proved to us that neither of them were in very fulfilling marriages, and though family tradition may have dictated they remain in their unions, I think the additional bonding of the ceremony helped a bit.

/two cents

[cmwinters]

Actually, with regards to Dean, it's a little of both.

http://www.jkrowling.com/textonly/en/extrastuff_view.cfm?id=2

Dean Thomas's background (Chamber of Secrets)

Anybody who has read both the American and British versions of 'Philosopher's Stone' will notice that Dean Thomas's appearance is not mentioned in the British book, whereas in the American one there is a line describing him (in the chapter 'The Sorting Hat').

This was an editorial cut in the British version; my editor thought that chapter was too long and pruned everything that he thought was surplus to requirements. When it came to the casting on the film version of 'Philosopher's Stone', however, I told the director, Chris, that Dean was a black Londoner. In fact, I think Chris was slightly taken aback by the amount of information I had on this peripheral character. I had a lot of background on Dean, though I had never found the right place to use it. His story was included in an early draft of 'Chamber of Secrets' but then cut by me, because it felt like an unnecessary digression. Now I don't think his history will ever make it into the books.

Dean is from what he always thought was a pure Muggle background. He has been raised by his mother and his stepfather; his father walked out on the family when Dean was very young. He has a very happy home life, with a number of half-brothers and sisters.

Naturally when the letter came from Hogwarts Dean's mother wondered whether his father might have been a wizard, but nobody has ever discovered the truth: that Dean's father, who had never told his wife what he was because he wanted to protect her, got himself killed by Death Eaters when he refused to join them. The projected story had Dean discovering all this during his school career. I suppose in some ways I sacrificed Dean's voyage of discovery for Neville's, which is more important to the central plot.

I think its probably safe to say that Dean's biological parents weren't married in a Wizarding ceremony; however, assuming that there's "no" way to divorce in the Wizarding world, it's entirely possible that if he were a pureblood, Dean's father wouldn't think of getting a divorce.

Or he could have known he was being pursued, and fled as fast as he could to keep them away from any sort of attention. The Death Eaters probably didn't realise he'd married a Muggle or they wouldn't be soliciting him so aggressively.

[hogwartsduchess]

Thank you, cm, I knew that the information was out there. I interpreted it as Dean's father having been murdered and, given that his wife never knew he was a wizard, she and her son assumed he'd walked out, but re-reading that, I'm inclined to wonder now.

[Snape's Talon]

There may be some kind of charm that is used in a wiziarding wedding ceremony (not like an unbreakable vow). In instances where the love is no longer present in the marriage, or someone doesn't want to be married anymore, then the charm breaks and the two are free to separate from the union.

So instead of a Muggle-like divorce, a person just leaves cause the charm is not present in the marriage to hold them together (since there is no mutual love in the marriage).

That doesn't leave much room for arranged marriages, and those I can see happening, especially where pure-bloods are concerned.

[cmwinters]

I'm pretty sure Jo said very recently that Bellatrix and Rodolphus had an arranged marriage.

Actually, her exact words may have been that Bellatrix didn't love Rodolphus, that she made a respectable pureblood marriage because that's what was expected of her, but Bellatrix's true devotion was to the Dark Lord.

[AurorKeefy]

Right, I'll toss my two cents in the general direction of this thread.

Firstly, and I know this has already been discussed at length by a great many people, but I absolutely hate the idea of marriage being an unbreakable vow. If marriage is to be about loving the other person, then to use a ceremony which suggests that if you leave the other you will die is the least romantic thing in the world. Things drift apart between the two of you, but you stay together to preserve your own life? If that is a declaration of love, then I missed a meeting somewhere along the lines. From that note alone, combined with my own personal moral outlook of course, I think wizarding divorces are possible. It might also be said that the very people who would agree to such terms are the pure-blood villains who have arranged marriages (ie, let's face it, Bellatrix), who are so often accused of lacking love entirely. Furthermore, Dean's father and Tom Riddle both had very good reasons for leaving their marriage. Very honourable reasons in Dean snr's case, and certainly less lamentable reasons in Tom Riddles.

This gets back on the whole idea that Jo is creating an idyllic world wherein your first love is your soulmate and you are together for life, no matter how woefully unrealistic that is.

Indeed, and also her ability to skirt around anything that would be a remotely controversial issue (these are children's books of course, so maybe there is something to be said for that.). J.K. Rowling's world does not account for divorce, because the characters within it are either clear cut villains or clear cut heroes (Even Snape, in my opinion). Since divorce can be cast in either light depending upon the circumstances (within the media, which is crucial to this paragraph's point), J.K. Rowling chooses not to deal with it, and sticks to her simple version of racism for any sort of moral outlook (which I have criticised in the past). If J.K. Rowling were to use divorce within her books, then she would either have to choose between allowing the heroes to do so, thereby glorfying it, or have the villains do so, thereby condemning it.

The beauty of fanfiction is that it allows us to explore issues that would not be explored within the books. We are allowed to discuss divorce within the wider wizarding world, without worrying how the newspapers/whatever fundamentalist christian interprets each incident as meaning. With that said, I think divorce can occur in the wizarding world